The front right tire seems to be tilted inward. Is there a fix? What needs to be done? Part replaced? Rim does not seem to be bend. very concerned as our land is rolling hills and feels like tractor will rollover. Take look at pictures. any help greatly appreciated. I am not very knowledgeable about tractors.
L3901 left front wheel tilt inward
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whitetiger
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Staff member
Equipment
Kubota tech..BX2370, RCK60, B7100HST, RTV900 w plow, Ford 1100 FWA
Park it on a level concrete surface and look at it again. It the picture of the RH side, it appears the front tire is setting in a ditch or wash.
Welcome aboard! Try parking the tractor on a good solid level surface and look again. Hard to tell from those pictures, but it appears the front axle isn't parallel with the ground. It's normal for both fronts to have a bit of positive camber. If your right front wheel is in a low spot where you're parked, it may make the left wheel to be straight up and down.
The front axle pivots in the center and doesn't provide any means of keeping the tractor from rolling. That's the function of the rear (solidly mounted) axle, along with weight distribution. From the pictures it looks like the rear wheels aren't set very wide.
EDIT TO ADD_ Looke like it took me too long to type the reply
The front axle pivots in the center and doesn't provide any means of keeping the tractor from rolling. That's the function of the rear (solidly mounted) axle, along with weight distribution. From the pictures it looks like the rear wheels aren't set very wide.
EDIT TO ADD_ Looke like it took me too long to type the reply
freewheel3
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Equipment
MX5000DT LA852, BX1800D, B6000DT, B6200HSTD, B7100HSTD, L185, T1700HX, ZD1211
All though the ground looks fairly level in the pics, park it on something flat and then compare the two sides. If there's still a difference, use the loader to raise the front axle off the ground a bit and give each tire a wiggle at the top and bottom to see if there is any play in there or strange noises.
PaRKED
I parked it on level ground and added 2 pictures, see above. I put front tires up, using the bucket, can turn left and right, and rod, like the axle, can move up and down both sides.
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freewheel3
Active member
Equipment
MX5000DT LA852, BX1800D, B6000DT, B6200HSTD, B7100HSTD, L185, T1700HX, ZD1211
That's fine but you should raise it again then grab the wheel at the top and bottom and give it a push/pull and see if there is any movement. This will tell you if you've got a bad bearing in the hub.
Caster and camber is not adjustable. It's built into the front axle. Toe is and is adjustable via the tie rod ends. If the wheel 'appears to be tilting, with either rim after swapping them, it's an issue with the bearings (upper and lower) in the potboard casting. Usually, if there is a bearing issue, the knuckle to axle housing seal will be leaking, but not always. it depends on the degree of slop. Easiest way to determine if the bearings are at fault is loft the front end with the bucket and grasp the wheel and tire at the 6 and 12 o'clock positions with your hands and try moving it in and out. If there is movement, you have a bearing (and most likely a kingpin issue). The, grasp the wheel at 9 and 3 o'clock and try to move it again. If it moves in that position, the tie rod ends are sloppy or the radial ram to tie rod adjustment rod is sloppy and will need replaced. I presume your neoprene boots on the tie rods and radial joints are intact and not torn. Torn boots allow dirt into the joints and really accelerates joint wear. The radial (ram to adjustment rod joints are very expensive, boots are cheap comparatively.
Usually, when the bearings fail, the kingpins will also be impacted. Best to replace everything.
You can do the repair yourself (I have) but if you aren't mechanically inclined, I'd have your local Kubota dealer do it.
If there is slop, you'll need the bearing sets, the kingpin, the seals and a tube of Kubota 3 bond to seal the casting surfaces plus assorted hand tools and drifts and replacement lube.
Usually, when the bearings fail, the kingpins will also be impacted. Best to replace everything.
You can do the repair yourself (I have) but if you aren't mechanically inclined, I'd have your local Kubota dealer do it.
If there is slop, you'll need the bearing sets, the kingpin, the seals and a tube of Kubota 3 bond to seal the casting surfaces plus assorted hand tools and drifts and replacement lube.
After looking at these photos I have a question. My L4400HST 4WD has always looked like the wheels in this OP. I have never had any problems and it runs great but my front tires are definitely angled in from top to bottom when looking from the front.
Should I be concerned?
Should I be concerned?
I have a L3901, the toe in is very visible, I don't worry about it as it was like that from new (2 years old). here is the info from the manual:
bambam31
Member
Equipment
L3800HST 4x4,R1,FEL, 6'disc, 5'bush hog,piranhaTB,6'grader,6'rake, 48"forks
I have a 2014 L3800 and my front wheels look the same. Never any problems. I remember reading somewhere that the angle assists in turning. I’ve noticed that the angle also slings mud away front the operator when in 4WD.
That angle you see is called camber. It is normal and nonadjustable. Check the bearings. Lift the front wheels off the ground and make sure that you can't move the wheel by grabbing the wheel at 12:00 (top) and 6:00 (bottom) with either hand, then pull out on the bottom while pushing in on the top, then vise versa. Should be zero play. If there is any, you have a hub bearing fixing to fail if it hasn't already, stop using the tractor and repair it before the bearing completely fails and the balls/junk fall down into the kingpin assembly. Once the junk gets into the rest of the hub, you have to replace about everything--it just gets more expensive the longer you run it with a failing/loose hub bearing.
Camber is designed to make the tractor steer a little easier and it is more noticeable on smaller tractors than it is on larger ag tractors. You'll see that most passenger cars have a little camber (but the other way IOW top of tire closer to the body than the bottom is, called negative camber) which helps keep the tire stuck to the road in a curve.
Checking toe is part of servicing (in the manual) but checking for loose hub bearings isn't in the book, but I do it anytime a tractor is being serviced. If it goes out with a loose bearing it makes me look foolish for not checking; and usually ends up costing me a little money. Toe really shouldn't change BUT they like to put it in the books so that you check it--and if it's off, you will then know to look for worn/bent/loose steering components.
Camber is designed to make the tractor steer a little easier and it is more noticeable on smaller tractors than it is on larger ag tractors. You'll see that most passenger cars have a little camber (but the other way IOW top of tire closer to the body than the bottom is, called negative camber) which helps keep the tire stuck to the road in a curve.
Checking toe is part of servicing (in the manual) but checking for loose hub bearings isn't in the book, but I do it anytime a tractor is being serviced. If it goes out with a loose bearing it makes me look foolish for not checking; and usually ends up costing me a little money. Toe really shouldn't change BUT they like to put it in the books so that you check it--and if it's off, you will then know to look for worn/bent/loose steering components.
I forgot to add the failure part in my comment. Once the bearings fail, the wallet comes out... Had the dealer do my left outboard on the open station this last winter. There was about 1/4" of visible play (looking at the top of the housing. Needed bearings, 2 new bushings and a king pin. Never leaked a drop. That seal is pretty flexible. Stuff wears out, even running in oil.
My first hint something was going on was a slight leak. The next was the wheel locking up while moving. Not bad but it would skid 6" every once in a while. It was bad. All bearings and seals and the pinion gear. Parts were over $1,200. I did the repair maybe 6 hours.
Attachments
Once it drops the upper bearing, it's toast but at least you can tell disaster is impending by lofting the front axle and doing the slop test, something I do every time I grease the axle pivot. I curl my bucket down and hoist the front of the tractors and do the shake / slop test, easy peasy. You can also tell by rotating the wheel and 'feeling' how it rotates but the best indicator of impending doom is the slop test.
The gears just don't like hardened bits floating around in there...
The gears just don't like hardened bits floating around in there...
yeah and they do just wear out. Almost all tractors (4wd) use the same type of system, or very similar. There are a few radial ball bearings that support the weight of the entire tractor. Radial ball bearings do a good job of supporting a radial load (perpendicular to the shaft that the bearing is on) but a very very poor job of supporting a axial (thrust, or sideways) load. Therein lies the issue. They'll support the axial but the load rating is really low in comparison to the radial. Tractors are always used in such ways that the bearings are supposed to deal with both radial and axial loading. Then a lot of them, if you flip the tires or widen the front end via spacers or whatever, the axial load goes up tremendously, which then shortens the bearing's life by applying more axial load than it is designed for. This is common with tractors that have a loader. The solution would be to redesign the entire front axle and both hubs but then the hubs become much bigger, MUCH more expensive, heavier, more complex, honestly becomes a worst case scenario for everyone including the manufacturer, dealer, end user, and the person who's got to work on them.
Lawn mowers are a good example. Woods used a lot of spindle bearings that were tapered rollers, but they required a lot more power to turn them in comparison to a ball bearing. Almost everyone uses ball bearings. They work for a long time so long as they're not full of moisture and/or dirt but even perfect conditions they're not gonna last forever. The blades have a ramp (wing) on them that lifts the grass and generates airflow under the deck. The blade also has weight. The combination of the weight and the wing forces the blade downward while rotating which loads the bearings axially. Woods bearings last, gosh, forever as long as they have a little grease in them, but they're tapered rollers which are designed to support the load; but as said they also need more power to run them because of their design. Similarly, cars. Used to be all cars had tapered roller bearings for wheel and hub bearings. Nowadays, they're mostly hub assemblies, if you take one apart they're usually a double row radial ball bearing which "rolls" easier (much easier) which in turn offers better fuel economy. The downside is that they cost more and they're harder to put in, and you can't really rebuild them (not the home mechanic anyway).
Lawn mowers are a good example. Woods used a lot of spindle bearings that were tapered rollers, but they required a lot more power to turn them in comparison to a ball bearing. Almost everyone uses ball bearings. They work for a long time so long as they're not full of moisture and/or dirt but even perfect conditions they're not gonna last forever. The blades have a ramp (wing) on them that lifts the grass and generates airflow under the deck. The blade also has weight. The combination of the weight and the wing forces the blade downward while rotating which loads the bearings axially. Woods bearings last, gosh, forever as long as they have a little grease in them, but they're tapered rollers which are designed to support the load; but as said they also need more power to run them because of their design. Similarly, cars. Used to be all cars had tapered roller bearings for wheel and hub bearings. Nowadays, they're mostly hub assemblies, if you take one apart they're usually a double row radial ball bearing which "rolls" easier (much easier) which in turn offers better fuel economy. The downside is that they cost more and they're harder to put in, and you can't really rebuild them (not the home mechanic anyway).
One thing I find interesting is the OEM tie rod ends are 'sealed for life' which is a poor idea, whereas the aftermarket ones are less expensive and come fitted with a grease zerk. Iwould not be surprised if the OEM ends had a plastic ball as well.
Lugbolt’s description is an example of how better 4WD vehicles use sealed-hubs which are replaced as a unit. When (at 120K miles) I noticed a slight “hum” on long-curves on the highway to the left... but on the return trip that same curve was to the right which had NO hum.... I pulled the right sealed-hub and found it had a slight roughness to it. (This was on a Jeep Cherokee)
AutoZone had the replacement unit priced at $49 from china. The US-made Timken was $110.
I bought the Timken and 200K miles later that hub is still doing fine (as are the other seven Timken universal and spider combos I replaced at the same time on that jeep.)
I used to feel the same way as Flip regarding sealed tie-ends and bearings. But I’ve come to realize that quality “permanently sealed/lubricated” items like that actually are a better product if they are mfr’d by reputable makers. The reason is that ALL mechanical things will eventually wear-out. Things that require regular greasing/servicing are subject to two detrimental things that ”permanently sealed” bearings do not.... regular servicing... which is not always “regular” or in which the proper, compatible grease/oil is used. Further, a careless repairman can introduce dirt in the process while introducing a different-than-original type of lubricant. Those types are often also compromised by short-lived rubber covers instead of water-resistant/permanence-designed seals which better protect. Finally, permanently-sealed items are mfr’d with synthetic grease which has longer life than mineral grease, and since it is not regularly serviced, they are not subject to the already-mentioned bad practices. (And the after-market less-expensive types which should be avoided are cheaper for a reason... they are made cheaper.). With rare exception the OEM product is almost always better.
It’s time to recognize that all bearings, etc have life-limits and that synthetic-lubed, permanent ones actually are better products. IMO
AutoZone had the replacement unit priced at $49 from china. The US-made Timken was $110.
I bought the Timken and 200K miles later that hub is still doing fine (as are the other seven Timken universal and spider combos I replaced at the same time on that jeep.)
I used to feel the same way as Flip regarding sealed tie-ends and bearings. But I’ve come to realize that quality “permanently sealed/lubricated” items like that actually are a better product if they are mfr’d by reputable makers. The reason is that ALL mechanical things will eventually wear-out. Things that require regular greasing/servicing are subject to two detrimental things that ”permanently sealed” bearings do not.... regular servicing... which is not always “regular” or in which the proper, compatible grease/oil is used. Further, a careless repairman can introduce dirt in the process while introducing a different-than-original type of lubricant. Those types are often also compromised by short-lived rubber covers instead of water-resistant/permanence-designed seals which better protect. Finally, permanently-sealed items are mfr’d with synthetic grease which has longer life than mineral grease, and since it is not regularly serviced, they are not subject to the already-mentioned bad practices. (And the after-market less-expensive types which should be avoided are cheaper for a reason... they are made cheaper.). With rare exception the OEM product is almost always better.
It’s time to recognize that all bearings, etc have life-limits and that synthetic-lubed, permanent ones actually are better products. IMO
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