This new L3560 is an odd fella

[iunderpressure]

Ok, I just got my L3560 back from the dealer the other day from other issues.

I was bush hogging today, and two questions came up.

1. Why does my windshield washer fluid spray itself every once in awhile for a split second?

2.Is it normal for tractor a/c to not be that good? Today, it was in the mid 80’s with low humidity, and I was sweating my but off. Doesn’t blow near as cool as my car. My whole backside was covered in sweat.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Doesn't sound right. I don't have a cab on my L3560, but I do have one on a B2650, and the wipers don't do that, and ac is quite cool.

 

[Palmettokat]

My guess on the windshield washer spray is the rocking of the tractor and the washer bottle is full.

On the a/c did it work better before it went to the shop? If new only thing that makes sense is the way you have the settings...you do have the compressor on, a push button on the control panel and do you have the vent open in it allowing outside air in rather than recycling the air in the cab. If the tractor is used any amount check the cab air filters to see if they need replacing.

 

[Dave_eng]

Your Ac system has a sight glass. Getting to know the pattern of bubbles you see passing through the sight glass will let you know in the future of pending problems.

If you have an Owner's manual it will make mention of the sight glass.

I am providing the Owner's manual page from a different model or tractor for your information

I have attached the page from the WSM dealing with the sight glass.

The checking procedure here (WSM) is more technical and involves a refrigeration gauge hence my suggestion to check your Owner's Manual.

At this point, checking the bubble pattern by eye will likely confirm you are low on refrigerant.

Dave

 

[SidecarFlip]

For years I thought mistakenly that that the ac in my 2004 M9 cab tractor (in my sig picture) had a wimpy air conditioner. Kept the cab filter clean, cleaned the under hood evap every time I used it and still sweated my buns off making hay every year so this spring I decided to take it apart (ac) and see what was up.

What was up was the condenser was loaded with chaff for one, so I cleaned that. 2. I insulated the roof. Kubota roofs are just uninsulated blow molded plastic (and expensive I might add, but the sun beating down on that orange roof really heats it up and there is nothing between you and tha hot roof but the headliner and the headliner offers no insulating value whatsoever, so I removed my roof and added foil-bubble-foil Reflectix insulation barrier to the underside of the roof.

Then I got into the refrigerant level. Kubota has a specific amount of 134A refrigerant in my system (and yours) and I bet yours is low like mine was. I added almost 12 ponces of 134A to get it up to the required amount and now I can only run the ac on level 1. Anymore than level 1 and I literally freeze my buns off. I used the tractor for bailing hay 2 days ago, It was 96 and sunny and I was a comfortable 68 in the cab... on level 1.

I just wish the ac outlets were bigger (like JD's are). With a JD, you can pop the vent out and stick a beverage can right in the outlet to keep your beverage cold.....

Oh well. cannot have everything.

My dealer told me that the refrigerant even is a sealed, non leaking system, will eventually get low no matter what.

I will say, it never worked so good as it does now.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Your Ac system has a sight glass. Getting to know the pattern of bubbles you see passing through the sight glass will let you know in the future of pending problems.

If you have an Owner's manual it will make mention of the sight glass.

I am providing the Owner's manual page from a different model or tractor for your information
View attachment 44281

I have attached the page from the WSM dealing with the sight glass.

The checking procedure here (WSM) is more technical and involves a refrigeration gauge hence my suggestion to check your Owner's Manual.

At this point, checking the bubble pattern by eye will likely confirm you are low on refrigerant.

Dave

Actually Dave, that is bullsnot. I got it right from my dealer's mouth (head mechanic btw). He told me that 134A unlike R11, exhibits no 'bubbles' and it don't. When fully charged to Kubota's spec, the only thing you see in the sight glass is a milky white stream. No bubbles at all, nothing, nada.

There is no bubbles. You can see when it's low on 134 as the refrigerant will be sloshing around in the dryer. When full (155psi on the high side), the stream is solid and whitish. You need a set of 134A compatible refrigeration gauges to fill it plus the 134A.

If you overfill it (and you can), you run the risk of blowing the compressor seals or popping a refrigerant hose. 155 psi max on the high side on a warm day (70 degrees ambient or better) with the engine idle up to 1500 rpm and the ac on high on fresh intake.

He told me that 134A don't have the heat exchange properties that R11 has so don't ever expect a 134 system to work as well as an R11 system. If mine is any indication, it it was R11, I'd be a frozen popsickle.

 

[iunderpressure]

Will car a/c gauges work, or does the Kubota system require different gauges?

 

[whitetiger]

Will car a/c gauges work, or does the Kubota system require different gauges?

The same 134A manifold gauge set works on both cars and Kubotas.
As you can see in the attachments, R134A DOES have bubbles in the sight window until the system is full.
As you can see in the attachments, R134A high pressure can go to at least 426 PSI without damaging the compressor or hoses. These attachments are from the L3560 WSM and are to correct any false information in this thread.
An R134A AC system does cool the cabin just as well and in many cases better than R12 systems, it common to see louver temps in the mid 40 degrees.

 

[Bmyers]

Windshield fluid ( I can only speak to my L3560) has never sprayed up on its own.

Air conditioner works great. I usually set it at 1 to start the morning and if it gets into the 90s, I will move it up to 2. IF I'm getting on and off the tractor a lot, then I will move it to 3 til it cools down the cab and then drop it back down.

I think the only time I use 4 is in the winter time to help defog the windows.

 

[lugbolt]

you can't charge by pressure alone. That is the wrong way to do it. Many do, but it's still wrong.

if someone tells you that refrigerant level "gets low normally" they are wrong. If the refrigerant charge is low you have or had a leak, or someone's deliberately discharged it. The latter being the most common because of the youtube mechanics spouting off incorrect information.

Most of the kubota a/c systems are to be evacuated properly, then charged by weight. If it calls for 2.1lb of refrigerant, add 2.1lb and you're done.

Charging by pressure alone will result in a lot of things, and one of them is a potential for serious injury, the other is spending some money.

A good a/c tech is going to have a PT chart handy to CHECK the pressures, but he won't be charging via pressure alone.

where I see most a/c problems is with the condenser, the evaporator, belt, and then a hack job "mechanic" playing with the system, in that order of frequency and severity, with the latter becoming more common and more expensive to properly repair. Had a L5030HSTC in a while back, suffered from a leak originally, owner's friend fixed the leak, added refrigerant, and sent it on. No evacuation, just left the air in the system. Ate up the expensive scroll compressor, and of course contaminated every single component of the system requiring replacing. $$$$$$. One of many examples.

Kubota uses a lot of scroll compressors. They work awesome and last a LONG time with many fewer parts than a piston compressor. HOWEVER; they are extremely intolerant of moisture and contaminants in the system also as all compressors intolerant of liquid refrigerant reaching the compressor. The biggest downfall is that they are expensive for no bigger and no more complex than they are.

another good example is my "neighbor". Dodge pickup. He brings it by the house says his a/c ain't working very good. First question is "has anyone worked on it?". Yeah, he said he bought a gauge set and the pressures were way high, over 400 on the high side so he "let some out" (illegal and I could have turned him in and been eligible for a hefty reward, but I didn't). All it was, was that the condenser was plugged with mud/dirt, so he grabs a set of gauges and reads high pressures, which is normal because the condenser is plugged. That's not the smart way of doing a/c work. That's the expensive way. A garden hose and about a penny's worth of water would've solved it in 5 minutes' time.

and yes deliberately discharging refrigerant to the atmosphere is illegal and if an offender is either caught or "tattled on", the "tattle tale" can get a nice reward if the offender is found guilty. All in the 609 books for those that want to read.

 

[Dave_eng]

Actually Dave, that is bullsnot. I got it right from my dealer's mouth (head mechanic btw). He told me that 134A unlike R11, exhibits no 'bubbles' and it don't. When fully charged to Kubota's spec, the only thing you see in the sight glass is a milky white stream. No bubbles at all, nothing, nada.

There is no bubbles. You can see when it's low on 134 as the refrigerant will be sloshing around in the dryer. When full (155psi on the high side), the stream is solid and whitish. You need a set of 134A compatible refrigeration gauges to fill it plus the 134A.

If you overfill it (and you can), you run the risk of blowing the compressor seals or popping a refrigerant hose. 155 psi max on the high side on a warm day (70 degrees ambient or better) with the engine idle up to 1500 rpm and the ac on high on fresh intake.

He told me that 134A don't have the heat exchange properties that R11 has so don't ever expect a 134 system to work as well as an R11 system. If mine is any indication, it it was R11, I'd be a frozen popsickle.in multi storry

This post is not meant to be an argument but an exchange of information.

R11 is a refrigerant never used in mobile AC systems. It is found is huge centrifugal compressors or heat pumps in institutional or commercial buildings. It comes in flat top drums unlike most other refrigerants which have much higher temperature/pressure properties necessitating a propane cylinder style container.

People in the AC trade used to use R11 to clean their coveralls. It was an excellent degreaser. When the container was opened, the R11 did not flash into a gas like other refrigerants but slowly evaporated. Before global warning typical disposal was to pour the drums into a ditch

R12 was used in mobile AC systems until it was replaced by R134a. Perhaps this is the refrigerant being referred to by the head mechanic.

If the designers of the Kubota AC system(s) have provided specific instructions on the servicing and evaluating of their design, generally it is wise to follow them. However, like many aspects in vehicle servicing, people have different opinions when it comes to the oil to use, the coolant to use, diesel fuel additive or not.......

I do not advocate owners doing anything to their AC systems which involves adding or removing refrigerants. Some of the refrigerants in a can contain flammable gases like propane and are a real hazard to anyone working on the system in the future.

Some more modern refrigerants are Azeotropic mixtures and any recharging needs to be done by evacuating the system and then refilling as the mixture of gases have different properties of temperature/pressure. A complete refill is the only way to get the design mix of gases into the AC system. New residential systems often use these refrigerants.

This explanation of an Azeotrope may make the concept clearer.

The most common example is the azeotrope between water and ethanol (grain alcohol). Water boils at 100 ºC and ethanol boils at 78.3 ºC. The mixture will boil at 78.2 ºC and have a composition of 95% ethanol and 5% water by volume. This is a binary azeotrope because it involves two components.

In the end all any of us want is a cold blast of air coming out the vents when desired.

Dave

 

[SidecarFlip]

you can't charge by pressure alone. That is the wrong way to do it. Many do, but it's still wrong.

if someone tells you that refrigerant level "gets low normally" they are wrong. If the refrigerant charge is low you have or had a leak, or someone's deliberately discharged it. The latter being the most common because of the youtube mechanics spouting off incorrect information.

Most of the kubota a/c systems are to be evacuated properly, then charged by weight. If it calls for 2.1lb of refrigerant, add 2.1lb and you're done.

Charging by pressure alone will result in a lot of things, and one of them is a potential for serious injury, the other is spending some money.

A good a/c tech is going to have a PT chart handy to CHECK the pressures, but he won't be charging via pressure alone.

where I see most a/c problems is with the condenser, the evaporator, belt, and then a hack job "mechanic" playing with the system, in that order of frequency and severity, with the latter becoming more common and more expensive to properly repair. Had a L5030HSTC in a while back, suffered from a leak originally, owner's friend fixed the leak, added refrigerant, and sent it on. No evacuation, just left the air in the system. Ate up the expensive scroll compressor, and of course contaminated every single component of the system requiring replacing. $$$$$$. One of many examples.

Kubota uses a lot of scroll compressors. They work awesome and last a LONG time with many fewer parts than a piston compressor. HOWEVER; they are extremely intolerant of moisture and contaminants in the system also as all compressors intolerant of liquid refrigerant reaching the compressor. The biggest downfall is that they are expensive for no bigger and no more complex than they are.

another good example is my "neighbor". Dodge pickup. He brings it by the house says his a/c ain't working very good. First question is "has anyone worked on it?". Yeah, he said he bought a gauge set and the pressures were way high, over 400 on the high side so he "let some out" (illegal and I could have turned him in and been eligible for a hefty reward, but I didn't). All it was, was that the condenser was plugged with mud/dirt, so he grabs a set of gauges and reads high pressures, which is normal because the condenser is plugged. That's not the smart way of doing a/c work. That's the expensive way. A garden hose and about a penny's worth of water would've solved it in 5 minutes' time.

and yes deliberately discharging refrigerant to the atmosphere is illegal and if an offender is either caught or "tattled on", the "tattle tale" can get a nice reward if the offender is found guilty. All in the 609 books for those that want to read.

My dealer's tech came out to the farm and charged it. Dennis told me what I posted. I asked him about the refrigerant loss and he said 134 will aspirate very slowly from the seals and even through the hose material over time. He ought to know, he's a Kubota certified (and schooled) tech. He evacuated the system, pulled it down to 30" of vacuum, let it stand for 30 minutes to see if it was leaking and then charged it with 134 at the correct amount. When he had his gauges on it, it indicated 150 psi on the high side.

He told me that if the system is at 150 psi, for all intents it was fully charged (I watched the whole process). I actually think it was low from the get go in 2004 when I took delivery of the tractor as it's never worked as good as it does now. He also told me what it says in the owners manual (and WSM) about observing the 'bubbles' in the refrigerant flow is false. There are no bubbles, just a white tinted flow of refrigerant.

Modern automobiles don't have sight ports on the dryers that I know of, least my vehicles don't.

All I know is, when you engage the ac now, the motor will decrease in rpm a bit (never did that before) and even the dryer gets warm (never did that either). The M9's cab is in reality a large greenhouse so it takes a bit of cooling power to cool it down. I did add an auxiliary 12 volt cooling fan in front of the under hood heat exchanger wired into the compressor electromagnetic clutch with a relay so it energizes when the electromagnet clutch on the compressor activates for additional airflow and added heat exchange.

 

[SidecarFlip]

This post is not meant to be an argument but an exchange of information.

R11 is a refrigerant never used in mobile AC systems. It is found is huge centrifugal compressors or heat pumps in institutional or commercial buildings. It comes in flat top drums unlike most other refrigerants which have much higher temperature/pressure properties necessitating a propane cylinder style container.

People in the AC trade used to use R11 to clean their coveralls. It was an excellent degreaser. When the container was opened, the R11 did not flash into a gas like other refrigerants but slowly evaporated. Before global warning typical disposal was to pour the drums into a ditch

R12 was used in mobile AC systems until it was replaced by R134a. Perhaps this is the refrigerant being referred to by the head mechanic.

If the designers of the Kubota AC system(s) have provided specific instructions on the servicing and evaluating of their design, generally it is wise to follow them. However, like many aspects in vehicle servicing, people have different opinions when it comes to the oil to use, the coolant to use, diesel fuel additive or not.......

I do not advocate owners doing anything to their AC systems which involves adding or removing refrigerants. Some of the refrigerants in a can contain flammable gases like propane and are a real hazard to anyone working on the system in the future.

Some more modern refrigerants are Azeotropic mixtures and any recharging needs to be done by evacuating the system and then refilling as the mixture of gases have different properties of temperature/pressure. A complete refill is the only way to get the design mix of gases into the AC system. New residential systems often use these refrigerants.

This explanation of an Azeotrope may make the concept clearer.

The most common example is the azeotrope between water and ethanol (grain alcohol). Water boils at 100 ºC and ethanol boils at 78.3 ºC. The mixture will boil at 78.2 ºC and have a composition of 95% ethanol and 5% water by volume. This is a binary azeotrope because it involves two components.

In the end all any of us want is a cold blast of air coming out the vents when desired.

Dave

The comment about bubbles in the refrigerant flow is false and that came right from my Kubota technician who came out to the farm and recharged mine. I asked him referring to the WSM and he told me to disregard that with 134a. There are no bubbles, I looked, more than once I might add.

I don't get into all the chemical stuff. Don't care actually. So long as it performs like it should, that is all that concerns me and it does now, in spades.

Everything I posted, including the high side pressure came from him and my observance of his pressure gauges on his air conditioning service cart which he brought along and I provided the 110 volt power for.

I didn't 'dream' any of what I commented on up, everything I posted was from him, out of his mouth and I didn't add nor subtract anything, just passed it on as it relates to the ac functionality.

Considering my M9Cab unit is a 2004, I'd say it was past time. If it works good for another 5 years, I'll be tickled. I don't think I'll be using it much when I'm 75 anyway.

 

[jajiu]

Ok, I just got my L3560 back from the dealer the other day from other issues.

I was bush hogging today, and two questions came up.

1. Why does my windshield washer fluid spray itself every once in awhile for a split second?

2.Is it normal for tractor a/c to not be that good? Today, it was in the mid 80’s with low humidity, and I was sweating my but off. Doesn’t blow near as cool as my car. My whole backside was covered in sweat.

When I first got my L3560HSTC, the AC worked GREAT! I ran it all summer and in the Fall, early Winter, I turned on the heat and got NONE! I was freezing. I called the dealer and he said bring it in and they went through it and found a hose was folded preventing flow. Not sure if something similar is happening to yours.

 

[iunderpressure]

 

[iunderpressure]

When I looked in the window with rpm’s at 1500 and a/c on full blast, the window looked empty. Then when I would turn the tractor off, it was like the fluid would flow. I saw bubbles and fluid drain from the side hose into the bottom hole until dry again.

 

[Pau7220]

People in the AC trade used to use R11 to clean their coveralls. It was an excellent degreaser. When the container was opened, the R11 did not flash into a gas like other refrigerants but slowly evaporated.

We used to get it in a 2 gallon jug that looked like a race car fuel can. It sort of smelled and acted like Brakleen. In the 80s we used it for flushing the a/c systems after a compressor failure.

 

[Dave_eng]

We used to get it in a 2 gallon jug that looked like a race car fuel can. It sort of smelled and acted like Brakleen. In the 80s we used it for flushing the a/c systems after a compressor failure.

The ways we all used and disposed of R11 is why global warning is a big deal today.

Did you ever see R11 used in mobile equipment?

Dave

 

[whitetiger]

My dealer's tech came out to the farm and charged it. Dennis told me what I posted. I asked him about the refrigerant loss and he said 134 will aspirate very slowly from the seals and even through the hose material over time. The 134 hoses have an inner lining that prevents permeation through the hose.




He ought to know, he's a Kubota certified (and schooled) tech.
As am I, with several hundred hours of Kubota University training. Living 35 minutes from a Training facility does have its benefits.
Sounds like he slept through HVAC!!



He evacuated the system, pulled it down to 30" of vacuum, let it stand for 30 minutes to see if it was leaking and then charged it with 134 at the correct amount.
He has no way of knowing how much freon he added without scales. Kubota, like most manufactures, gives the charge capacity in ounces




When he had his gauges on it, it indicated 150 psi on the high side.

He told me that if the system is at 150 psi, for all intents it was fully charged
That is nothing more than a W.A.G. Maybe its close, maybe it's not.
Ambient temperature, humidity, condenser fins condition, etc all contribute to the High side pressure.



(I watched the whole process). I actually think it was low from the get go in 2004 when I took delivery of the tractor as it's never worked as good as it does now. He also told me what it says in the owners manual (and WSM) about observing the 'bubbles' in the refrigerant flow is false. There are no bubbles, just a white tinted flow of refrigerant.
That is simply not true, any Tech with any AC experience knows better. THERE ARE BUBBLES IN THE SIGHT WINDOW. It is a proven fact.


Modern automobiles don't have sight ports on the dryers that I know of, least my vehicles don't.
There are no sight windows on then as freon capacity is measured in ounces, not bubbles. If the system is low, you connect a recovery machine to it, evacuate it, and refill with a specific weight of freon.


All I know is, when you engage the ac now, the motor will decrease in rpm a bit (never did that before) and even the dryer gets warm (never did that either). The M9's cab is in reality a large greenhouse so it takes a bit of cooling power to cool it down. I did add an auxiliary 12 volt cooling fan in front of the under hood heat exchanger wired into the compressor electromagnetic clutch with a relay so it energizes when the electromagnet clutch on the compressor activates for additional airflow and added heat exchange.

Just getting the FACTS straight.

 

[Tughill Tom]

We used to get it in a 2 gallon jug that looked like a race car fuel can. It sort of smelled and acted like Brakleen. In the 80s we used it for flushing the a/c systems after a compressor failure.

Those were the day's, I put a big hole in the Ozone with 11. The best dame degreaser I ever used.