I don’t know. I said balls out not balls to the wall. If I had to guess though, just as balls out can now refer to gas and Diesel engines, I’m sure balls to the wall can also refer to more than planes. I’m sure if we had some steam engine purists on here, they’d want to chastise for me saying I was running my diesel balls out. Maybe there should be some nuance between the two terms? Balls out just means full throttle or full speed and balls to the wall means in attack mode or on a mission (but also at full throttle)?
Why run high rpm's with a diesel ?
- Thread starter miketrock
- Start date
I understand that concept... What I’m wondering is how “balls to the wall” came to be thought of as anything other than a ball-shaped throttle and a firewall. I don’t see a connection to a governors ball-shaped weights and a “wall”.
Back to the OT, ... I think high RPM is considered to equate to high wear rates by most people...and that is not a linear relationship. The number of revolutions an engine accumulates is not a finite number as it relates to longevity. Once the high-wear initial start-up/warm-up occurs... very little additional wear happens relatively speaking. The lubricating oil insulates the moving parts from each other and carries away heat.
The highest wear occurs when RPM is varied repeatedly. If the engine is stabilized at RPM and temperature it suffers very little degradation as long as oil pressure and temp remains stable.
High RPM also does not equate to high piston/ring wear. High LOAD does, however. Example: If the engine is operated at less than optimum RPM and increased workload is applied, the engine initial response is slowing... which changes the oil-film-surface-tension and can cause momentary increased wear on the rotating parts... THEN the governor (in an attempt to restore selected RPM) will increase fuel-flow, which FURTHER loads the bearings.... AND the manifold pressure is increased as the throttle is opened further loading all moving parts...(the piston rings are expanded against the cylinder walls at this last point thereby increasing friction, just when RPM lagged and reduced the “oil-sling” lubrication of those cylinder-walls which normally lubricate and cool piston rings and pistons.)
The comparative result is that high operating RPMs can actually REDUCE engine wear compared to lower RPMs that create demands for increased power due to changing loads (such as acceleration requests or HST forward/backward requests or clutching requests.)
Another illustration is the well-known longevity of stationary engines which operate for long periods at stabilized loads and RPMs. Those engines avoid those increased-wear situations just-described and therefore have long lives. Engines upon which frequent RPM-changes are demanded have noticeably shorter lives.
Bottom line: If your operations require frequent throttle or governor actuation then a higher “base” RPM of operations will likely reduce engine wear AND fuel consumption and result in longer engine life.
Both "balls out" and "balls to the wall" were terms used by operators of stationary reciprocating steam engines long before "balls to the wall" was adopted by those in aviation.
Reciprocating stationary steam engines were usually situated in an engine house. Usually, the flyball governor was situated to one side of the engine near the wall of the engine house. When operating at full speed, the governor balls were fully out or nearest to the wall.
SDT
I agree, we are getting WOT (way off topic). I’m not a mechanic, but I know enough from my toys and time to be dangerous. I mostly agree with everything you said, but it ignores heat. It can break the oil down and cause wear.
You should believe whatever you choose to believe, George, and I will believe what my experience has taught me. I do not give a RA.
SDT
That’s why we should use high-quality oils (not El-Cheapo brand).
And I did not ignore heat, I specifically addressed it.
I just asked my grandfather where the term came from and he said steam engines before I finished the question. He also mentioned "balls out".
I believe he actually ran some of them so I will take his word for it.
I believe he actually ran some of them so I will take his word for it.
So it took a while to get the story out of him.
He said the walls had nothing to do with traditional walls. The balls, when spun would wind out until hitting the stops on the flanges. He said the stops were called the wall on the flange.
He said "balls out" would occur at almost any speed so the saying was refined to balls to the wall, meaning the physical maximum it could go.
He said the walls had nothing to do with traditional walls. The balls, when spun would wind out until hitting the stops on the flanges. He said the stops were called the wall on the flange.
He said "balls out" would occur at almost any speed so the saying was refined to balls to the wall, meaning the physical maximum it could go.
SDT... You win!
After further research I found another photograph which I felt CERTAIN would end this in my favor... (see the pic below of an entire ROOM of engines, NONE of which are anywhere near a wall.... but instead installed in the center of the room JUST LIKE I SAID....)
However, actually READING THE TEXT associated with that photograph, I found the following:
“ Quimby, a floor hand who removed blemishes from finished steel from 1974 to 1988, also shared the origin of a common saying: balls to the wall. Pointing to the spinning flyball governor atop the Corliss engine, he noted that when the machine is going full bore, centrifugal force pushes the flyballs outward, toward the walls.”
I’ll never question SDT again.
After further research I found another photograph which I felt CERTAIN would end this in my favor... (see the pic below of an entire ROOM of engines, NONE of which are anywhere near a wall.... but instead installed in the center of the room JUST LIKE I SAID....)
However, actually READING THE TEXT associated with that photograph, I found the following:
“ Quimby, a floor hand who removed blemishes from finished steel from 1974 to 1988, also shared the origin of a common saying: balls to the wall. Pointing to the spinning flyball governor atop the Corliss engine, he noted that when the machine is going full bore, centrifugal force pushes the flyballs outward, toward the walls.”
I’ll never question SDT again.
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They definitely are, that's why I bought a Kubota BX2680 shovel. I have a lot of disabilities from 25 years in the military, and my back is one of them. Bending over to tie my shoes is painful. Life continues...
NH must have lots of old engines and operators. I have a friend who is a gas compressor mechanic and he was called from Colorado to NH to work on an engine that had a brick crankcase and leather bushings.
The flange stop as the wall makes sense as the term would work if the engine was located outside.
The flange stop as the wall makes sense as the term would work if the engine was located outside.
Ball to the Wall is actually different but the same to Balls out. "balls out" is a reference to steam and hit and miss engine governors, "Balls to the Wall" is a reference to WW2 aircraft throttles and prop control levers, with all throttles and prop control handles full forward, engines are making max RPMs and manifold pressures, hence balls to the (fire)wall.
with diesel and electric Locos full throttle is referred to as "notch 8" and on some EMD and old Fairbanks Morris engines you could push lever past notch 8 for a extra 10 RPMS, also know at "notch 9" or "stop Notch"
on ships engine power is rated at bells, on the Coast Guard ships I was on, we had diesel bells and bird bells (turbines), answering a flank bell on the diesels would yield 16-17 knots, on the birds a flank bell was around 35-38 knots. we also had a war emergency flank where we bumped the N-1 speed of the turbines up and injected water, we could pick up another few knots (classified) to catch a go fast. when all the crap would start shaking off book shelves we knew the Capt aksed for WEF, affectionately know as When Everything Flys apart.