PTO gone bad?

[easye9]

My lawnmower (Manuel list it as a ZG-124E. The license plate has model RCK48P-124Z) would not startup, it would only click. I tried jumping it, and got the same result. I got my multi meter to probe the terminals and i was getting well over 12amps (I forget actual readings). This all took about maybe 30 mins?

Now, I went to try a different appoach as I was reading it could be multple things (The cords that plug into seat, relay starter, solenoid, etc all regarding it to safety features) It could have purely been coincidental but I was engaging and disengaging the PTO (yellow) button on / off while I was trying to start it up. The crank spun which startled me, which than made me let go. I turned key to on, and it fired up.

So I went to cut my yard, and all was well. Maybe 15minutes in I started to smell an odd aroma but I just kept on cutting. I proceeded to the backyard to cut around edge or property still smelling the aroma. Than once I hit the back end of property the pto just cut off. The electric clutch had smoke coming out. Blades will not tun back on.

https://youtu.be/XU6mnXn2Poc

Turn speakers down, now should the clutch be shaken this much, as well as the deck belt?

https://youtu.be/TZRfw3Fk3XA

Let me know if the links work?

Any help would be appreciated, Thank you!

 

[thebicman]

Unable to watch. Says link is private.

 

[easye9]

I updated videos to public.

I might add that the mower is 7 years old.

 

[Dave_eng]

I think you are dealing with two different problems possibly.

No crank and smoking electric clutch.

It is possible the failing clutch has dragged the life out of the battery and you measuring 12 amps means nothing unless you actually meant volts.

The pto clutch could have failing bearings, the drive belt could be slipping because something on the deck is starting to seize or, the clutch is failing electrically.

I have pulled some pages from the WSM.

The first test is to measure the electrical resistance of the clutch coil. If it does not meet spec then do not use and and decide how you are going to repair it.

Between the two leads of the coil you should read 2.88 to 3.13 ohms.

A lower reading would indicate an internal short generating lots of heat

A belt with a flat spot burned in it will cause lots of vibration.

Dave

 

[SidecarFlip]

Clutch time. Probably about 300 bucks.

 

[easye9]

I think you are dealing with two different problems possibly.

No crank and smoking electric clutch.

It is possible the failing clutch has dragged the life out of the battery and you measuring 12 amps means nothing unless you actually meant volts.

The pto clutch could have failing bearings, the drive belt could be slipping because something on the deck is starting to seize or, the clutch is failing electrically.

I have pulled some pages from the WSM.

The first test is to measure the electrical resistance of the clutch coil. If it does not meet spec then do not use and and decide how you are going to repair it.

Between the two leads of the coil you should read 2.88 to 3.13 ohms.

A lower reading would indicate an internal short generating lots of heat

A belt with a flat spot burned in it will cause lots of vibration.

Dave

Clutch time. Probably about 300 bucks.

OK I don't think the cables matter but I checked the ohms both ways and got a reading of 1. All I did was stick prongs into the female wire of clutch, that is correct way right?

Also that belt is new, I replaced it last July along with two pulleys on the deck.

I posted this back in April. Basically the connector clutch arm broke, it spun, and pulled the connectors apart (the white shell connector got pulled off the wires entirely). So, I plugged the connectors in like shown in those pics. I guess that could have been a problem? But 3-4 weeks of cutting with no problem until today. So I am thinking age is what broke it? End of last season I was having problem after problem.

https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45645

 

[easye9]

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This most likely means that I need to purchase part 170?

 

[whitetiger]

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This most likely means that I need to purchase part 170?

Yes, 170 is the clutch you need. Also, replace the PTO switch as that was your "No Crank" intermittent failure. Ask for the Upgraded switch and adapter harness extension. We replace the old style switch by the bucket full for no crank failure.

Has your mower had all of the updates performed on it?

 

[easye9]

Yes, 170 is the clutch you need. Also, replace the PTO switch as that was your "No Crank" intermittent failure. Ask for the Upgraded switch and adapter harness extension. We replace the old style switch by the bucket full for no crank failure.

Has your mower had all of the updates performed on it?

What updates are you referring to?

Messicks does not have pto switch in stock as I live close to them for the online orders to ship to that store. It will take a week to get there. I may hold off on that.

I am assuming the harness extension is for the clutch to relay starter? Do you have a diagram of that harness, where is it located at?

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Is 20.1 that harness?

 

[whitetiger]

What updates are you referring to?

Messicks does not have pto switch in stock as I live close to them for the online orders to ship to that store. It will take a week to get there. I may hold off on that.

I am assuming the harness extension is for the clutch to relay starter? Do you have a diagram of that harness, where is it located at?

The harness is 4" long, adapts the new switch to the old connector.

Depending on your serial number, your mower should have gotten any or all of these PSBs.

PSB-2013-010 = Fuel tank valve and stay
PSB-2013-048 = Brake lever, Battery cable orientation, Decal
PSB-2017-144-R1 = Deck belt guard kit, Brake switch, Tension arm kit, Fuel pickup tube. HST tension spring

 

[Dave_eng]

OK I don't think the cables matter but I checked the ohms both ways and got a reading of 1. All I did was stick prongs into the female wire of clutch, that is correct way right?


https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45645

Yes you measured the ohms correctly and the reading is far too low meaning the coil is shorting internally and producing the heat and smoke

Dave

 

[easye9]

The harness is 4" long, adapts the new switch to the old connector.

Depending on your serial number, your mower should have gotten any or all of these PSBs.

PSB-2013-010 = Fuel tank valve and stay
PSB-2013-048 = Brake lever, Battery cable orientation, Decal
PSB-2017-144-R1 = Deck belt guard kit, Brake switch, Tension arm kit, Fuel pickup tube. HST tension spring

Do you have links and pictures to these so I can see if they are different? As far as I know, I do not have anything upgraded. I was having problem end of year with my mower constantly shutting off. Leading me to think it was gas related. Well, it was, and the man at Messick's said it was the fuel straw that goes into the gas tank. It was clogged up and needed to be "blown out". He did say that a new version is available that has a filter on it. Is that the fuel pickup tube you mentioned? I did not purchase that one yet. That was easy to pull off but a pain in the butt to put back in.

Yes you measured the ohms correctly and the reading is far too low meaning the coil is shorting internally and producing the heat and smoke

Dave

Dave, so it is safe to say that I can order the electric clutch? One fellow said I should also order a new PTO switch, can that wait? Do I really need to buy that, as I do not think that one is bad?

Also if you view this (at 6:00) should I put dielectric grease on connectors? Also (at 9:00,) should I be putting anti-seize on the nut? Also (9:30) threadlocker blue on the bolt? I did have to take this clutch off last year due to the HST belt under the seat breaking, and I had no problem getting it off. I guess that stuff would help, but I don't own them except the dielectric grease.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb_deDPQYt0

 

[easye9]

How does one hold the crank from spinning when torquing the clutch bolt.

Last time I took off I had no problem wedging a 32mm wrench against the roll cage. Not so much this time. Any other tips?

I have a 32mm socket but it is not deep enough.

I have the torque ext kit from harbor freight add that to the earthquake air wrench with 2” head plus the 9/16 socket. I cannot slip the gun under the clutch to tighten. So I have to use regular torque wrench set at 110 lbs. This scares me because last time I broke the bolt from over tightening. Does it take a lot of muscle to torque at that? I am just wondering if my wrench is working.

I am also scared in just using the air wrench because I don’t know how much torque is being applied.

 

[GeoHorn]

Good rule of thumb: NEVER assemble anything with an impact wrench.

Disassembly isn’t such a problem but NOT assembly.

 

[Henro]

...My lawnmower ( The license plate has model RCK48P-124Z)...

I can’t help more than the advice already given, but being in PA too I think it is pretty cool your lawnmower has a license plate!

 

[easye9]

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So I got the clutch back on, but the blades are not turning on. I tried putting those ends back into the case (lying on the side,) but I do not think they are making contact with the new clutch side. I think (I know) it has to do when the clutch arm bar broke it spun and ripped off the cable case and warping the prongs.

Can and how do I cut those wire ends to tie a longer cable to connect? What kind of plug ends are those, can I get them at Lowes or Home Depot? Do I need a special crimping tool? What size wire (any) do I need?

 

[i7win7]

So I have to use regular torque wrench set at 110 lbs. This scares me because last time I broke the bolt from over tightening. Does it take a lot of muscle to torque at that? I am just wondering if my wrench is working.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/759280..._query=torque+wrench&ref=sr_gallery-1-2&pro=1
Guess they're antiques now.

Micrometer style clamp a bolt in a vise when wrench gets to setting you should hear and feel it when it clicks. May need lower setting for vise test. Slow steady pull, no jerking.

 

[easye9]

[/url][/IMG]



So I got the clutch back on, but the blades are not turning on. I tried putting those ends back into the case (lying on the side,) but I do not think they are making contact with the new clutch side. I think (I know) it has to do when the clutch arm bar broke it spun and ripped off the cable case and warping the prongs.

Can and how do I cut those wire ends to tie a longer cable to connect? What kind of plug ends are those, can I get them at Lowes or Home Depot? Do I need a special crimping tool? What size wire (any) do I need?

Actually I just thought of this. Can I cut off the old electric clutch wires and use that to extend? That would save time. They should not be damaged or shorted should they? I just need to know what kind of butt plugs those are on the first pic.

 

[whitetiger]

Do you have links and pictures to these so I can see if they are different? As far as I know, I do not have anything upgraded. I was having problem end of year with my mower constantly shutting off. Leading me to think it was gas related. Well, it was, and the man at Messick's said it was the fuel straw that goes into the gas tank. It was clogged up and needed to be "blown out". He did say that a new version is available that has a filter on it. Is that the fuel pickup tube you mentioned? Yes, that is the one.

I did not purchase that one yet. That was easy to pull off but a pain in the butt to put back in. You do not need to purchase one, take your mower to a Kubota dealer and it will be done free.




Dave, so it is safe to say that I can order the electric clutch? One fellow said I should also order a new PTO switch, can that wait? Do I really need to buy that, as I do not think that one is bad?

Also if you view this (at 6:00) should I put dielectric grease on connectors? Also (at 9:00,) should I be putting anti-seize on the nut? Also (9:30) threadlocker blue on the bolt? I did have to take this clutch off last year due to the HST belt under the seat breaking, and I had no problem getting it off. I guess that stuff would help, but I don't own them except the dielectric grease.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb_deDPQYt0

Have you checked to see that with the PTO switch in the ON position you are getting voltage to the clutch connector?

 

[easye9]

Have you checked to see that with the PTO switch in the ON position you are getting voltage to the clutch connector?

Well, here is what happen. I inspected and blew air into the PTO button and connector. I got the clutch on. The wiring is right now rigged to the new clutch connector. Mower would start, but the blades would not turn on. Simple solution was the PTO fuse (under seat) blew when the old electric clutch died. So, remember that for future reference. Second thing to remember is when I was disengaging the PTO, the blades would chug to slow grinding stop that could be heard (through the ear plugs and muffs that I wear.) Third and last to remember is if you are cutting grass for awhile and then turn it off to hit the bathroom, and it will not turn over unless you use the choke is another tale sign. All day today when I shut her down, it started right up without using the choke. When at least the past year or so I had to use choke on to restart her back up.