bx1800 bent frame?

[SCD]

Hello first post on the forum:

I bought a bx1800 used a few years ago. I have been using it for general yard work with the la211 loader. As I am getting used to the tractor I noticed the blade is wearing out more on the right than the left. I checked the tire pressure and did some measurements. Sure enough it is low on the right. I searched through the manual and could not find any sort of adjustment or information about how to deal with this. So I went to the local Kubota dealer yesterday to get some help. The service guy told me I had a bent frame, Darn! Okay. I am sure I did not do anything that would bend the frame so it was likely bent when I bought it. Hmmm, Well history is behind me, I bought it cash 5 years ago, and I need to go forward from here.

So, can any one offer me some advise or help. I have a copy of the service manual, but it does not tell me what I need to know.

I think I need the frame specs or reference points so I can go to a frame shop and get it straightened, if that is possible. Has anyone dealt with this sort of problem?

Thanks for all the help

 

[D2Cat]

Welcome to the forum. You have the right idea, no sense looking back..what do I need to fix this!

You checked the tire pressures and they were the same right to left side. Tires are the same size and brand right to left side?

I'd just loosen all the mounting bolts that hold the loader to the frame a couple of turns while the tractor and loader is parked on level concrete. Then start up the engine and push now on the loader a bit, then tighten the bolts back up. They may have very well be wrong from the beginning.

 

[SCD]

Hello d2cat:
I must have been incomplete in my description. The bend is not in the loader. The shop took the loader off and checked the chassis frame. That is where the bend is.
I was just looking at it, and it is really well built. It must have been some big time force to bend the frame. I guess I need to figure out some reference points to measure away from so the frame shop can "tweak" it back to alignment.

Thanks for the comment

 

[Henro]

Hello d2cat:
I must have been incomplete in my description. The bend is not in the loader. The shop took the loader off and checked the chassis frame. That is where the bend is.
I was just looking at it, and it is really well built. It must have been some big time force to bend the frame. I guess I need to figure out some reference points to measure away from so the frame shop can "tweak" it back to alignment.

Thanks for the comment

Wow, can not imagine bending the frame on my BX2200, which I think is the same frame as yours.

What other issues does the "bent frame" cause you? I can see maybe using a MMM might be a slight issue.

Why not follow D2cats advice? Get the loader bucket level with respect to the rest of the system. Might only end up level at ground level, but would that be an issue?

The ideal (a perfect frame) may not be the best practical solution, unless you have the excess money to throw at it. I mean, the tractor is about 15 years old, is it not?

 

[SCD]

hello Henro:
Good points. Yes the mowing deck also gives a bit of a "stripped tilted hair cut" to the yard.
I guess it is a bit of a unique situation. Like most others I do not have a lot of $$ to throw at it. But it is all I have so I am hoping to get it sorted out.

The auto body frame shop guy is reluctant as I do not have any factory specs or reference points to give him. If I can get the frame guy to look at it maybe I can get some where. I think I can use the loader mounting bracket bolt holes or the top edge of the frame as measuring points from an external reference surface. It will take a bit of artful effort and patience to get it sorted out.

If anybody has an idea I am keen to read it
Thanks for the help

 

[D2Cat]

So because the dealer tells you the frame is twisted, it's twisted? The shop took the loader off and "that is where the bend is". Do you see any place where the paint is wrinkled at all? I'd ask the dealer's tech to show you what he saw that led him to his conclusion.

I'm guessing the shop personnel had to come up with an answer, and you heard it....but did you see it? Be thankful the body shop frame guy refused to do anything without factory specs because without them he'd be guessing to!

Put your tractor on flat concrete with the loader off. Measure the height of the bottom of the frame at each corner or better yet put a plumb bob at each corner and mark the concrete with a dot. Move the tractor. Measure the dots each direction including diagonally.

 

[SCD]

Hello D2Cat:

Well you are absolutely correct. I just got back from the frame shop. That was an interesting adventure. Couple of nice, funny guys. Their comment "no way you could bend that frame". We made some measurements and concluded there is a little slop but the frame is not bent or twisted or diamond shaped. So the Kubota dealer gave a quick answer but no solution and was off the mark.

There is definitely an imbalance from the left side to the right side by 1/2 an inch when measured from the top of the loader mounting arms. It is a bit less when measured from the frame to the ground. When measured from the frame to the top of the front axle housing it is 5/16".
I am wondering if there is an adjustment to how the frame sits on the front axle housing?

 

[whitetiger]

Did you measure from the frame to the floor at the rear of the tractor first? If the rear is not level side to side, the front will not be. The front axle has a pin thru it in the center so it can pivot. If the rear measurements are off, the front will be off. Tire wear, air pressure, or miss-matched tires on the rear dictate whether the tractor sets level from side to side.

You can drive one front tire onto a 4x4 woodblock and the tractor will still be level. Drive one rear wheel onto the same block and the tractor will be crooked. Side to side level is totally controlled by the rear.

On a BX with turf tires, one pound difference in air pressure side to side at the rear tires can make 1/2" difference in height side to side at the loader bucket.

 

[beex]

Put a level on the rops, it’s probably not level, if not the frame is not bent. A likely issue is the tires are not the same diameter. That sounds weird, but it’s the case many times. Others have had the same problem. My tires are not exactly same size so my bx tilts to one side if the tires are same pressure. I can level by having one side 2 psi lower than other side.

You can put a level on the bucket too, and see it matches the rops to confirm frame is not bent.


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[lugbolt]

It could be bent. Who knows. There ain't no specification to compare to so how does one know if it is, or if it is not? Only way I know of is to strip the tractor completely down to bare frame and look it over real good for wrinkled paint, etc. If found, again since there ain't no specification, might have to just order a new frame--if it's available.

It uses the same basic frame as the BX TLB's and a lot of guys are using their TLB like a D4 dozer; and I've NEVER seen one of those bend (ever). Don't mean it don't happen, just means I ain't never seen (or heard of) one bent.

L series and some B series, yeah I've seen a few that the bucket don't sit level and there's a cure for it. Loosen the loader main frame mounting bolts, put a 2x4 flat under the high side of the bucket then put some down pressure on it. Tighten the main frame mounting bolts and re-test/readjust as needed. Almost always fixes it.

A level bucket is nice to have but sometimes with a tractor it's just not going to happen. If one requires perfectly smooth surface they're gonna have to use some sort of equipment that is actually made to do just that whether it be a dozer with angle tilt blade (GPS) or a skid-steer or whatever, but a tractor with a loader isn't really the tool that's specifically designed for that purpose. It does a lot of things pretty good but it doesn't do everything extremely well which is why the SVL is made among other equipment.

 

[SCD]

hello again:
Thank you for all the helpful hints.
I did crawl underneath and the frame does not appear to have any wrinkles or signs of a bend, that coupled with the review I did with the guys at the frame shop tell me it is unlikely bent, so I am moving away from that as the problem.

I will check with a 4' level on the rops and double check the tire pressure. If that does not work I will switch the tires left for right and see if that changes things.

Is there any adjustment with the front pivot. Could that point wear unevenly?

I have liquid in the tires could that have an impact? (not sure how).

If I try all the suggestions and it seems to be within the normal range then I go back to the loader and mid mounted mower deck. I can likely live with the mower as is, cause it is only grass after all. The loader is the big concern, there is definitely a sag to the right.

Could the age of the hoses on the loader be part of the problem?

Does it make sense to change out the hoses. Some of them have been changed due to leaks already. The original hoses are 800hrs and 17 years old. I am thinking they might have something to do with the problem.

Is there a seal kit available for the loader distribution valve and cylinders?

Is there a chance that I have air in one of the cylinders?

Lots of questions to this puzzle?

I appreciate all the help I am getting.
Thanks

 

[D2Cat]

The front pivot pin is just that, a pin that pivots. No adjustment to make the front unlevel. The cylinders leaking or having air in them, if they do, has nothing to do with the loader being unlevel.

I say put a level on the back and air the back tires as required to achieve level. Then be satisfied.

 

[Mlarv]

You could always swap tire left to right and see if the problem followed. That would be a fast easy way to rule out the tires.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Your looking on the wrong end of the tractor for the solution, it's the rear tires and wheels that can throw the loader out of whack.

The front end, pivot point, tires, and rims have Zero effect on loader level!

On a flat surface measure from the ground up to the top of the rim, if the measurements are not exact, yes even 1/8" off will do it, then there is your issue!

 

[SCD]

Okay:
I know what I am going to be doing tomorrow.

I will report back after I get a chance to check out the rear end.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[SCD]

problem mostly figured out

Hello again:
I think I got it mostly sorted out. Thanks for the helpful comments goes to "D2Cat " and "North Idaho Wolfman".

I did as suggested and put a straight edge on the top of the ROPS, and other frame related parallel points. The frames was out by 1/2 - 3/4" back to front. I measured ground to the top of the rear rims and they were out by 1/2 inch. I added air on the right until I got with in 1/8" of the left. I ended up with 35psi on the right side and 20 on the left. Went for a quick drive down the road and around the park to warm it up and let the tires play in a bit. Measured it again and it was pretty much level. I put the loader on, upped it and downed it a few times, then put the level on it and it is out by less than a 1/4 inch.

All I can say is wow. That was fabulous. Thank you for the help. You did a good thing gentleman.
Thank you very much.

I figure this imbalance goes all the way back to original sale. The loader likely acted weird right from the beginning, as it touches down on the right way before the left. Mowing deck is the same, it always scalps on the right. So this is quite good. My tractor just got even better.
Cool

Thanks agian. I will keep in touch

 

[BigG]

Re: problem mostly figured out

Hello again:
I think I got it mostly sorted out. Thanks for the helpful comments goes to "D2Cat " and "North Idaho Wolfman".

I did as suggested and put a straight edge on the top of the ROPS, and other frame related parallel points. The frames was out by 1/2 - 3/4" back to front. I measured ground to the top of the rear rims and they were out by 1/2 inch. I added air on the right until I got with in 1/8" of the left. I ended up with 35psi on the right side and 20 on the left. Went for a quick drive down the road and around the park to warm it up and let the tires play in a bit. Measured it again and it was pretty much level. I put the loader on, upped it and downed it a few times, then put the level on it and it is out by less than a 1/4 inch.

All I can say is wow. That was fabulous. Thank you for the help. You did a good thing gentleman.
Thank you very much.

I figure this imbalance goes all the way back to original sale. The loader likely acted weird right from the beginning, as it touches down on the right way before the left. Mowing deck is the same, it always scalps on the right. So this is quite good. My tractor just got even better.
Cool

Thanks agian. I will keep in touch

Double check the max air pressure on your tire. I think 35 is to high. Maybe 10 in one and 25 in the other or something like that. It will improve your ride comfort also.

 

[SCD]

good point. I will do that

 

[beex]

yes, 35 way is too high, might blow the tire off, on an 1800, you don’t have a backhoe, 20 psi is too high, you can go down to 12-14 or so one side 16 on the other.

The WSM for my 1860 says 14 psi for rear tires. The 1800 will be the same.

At the lower pressures you won’t have to have such a big difference between the sides to get level.

it’s good you figured it out, bent frames on a BX is super rare, bent loaders are not common on a bx either, my money was on the tires.


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[Henro]

Question:

I believe I remember NI Wolfman suggesting that you measure the height of the tops of the rear rims. Did you do this?

Tire pressure difference corrected the problem, but why?

Could be because of differences between the tires. Doubt there are any significant differences in the wheels (but you never know).

As I am typing this I am almost confusing myself! But it seems to me that if you find the tops of the rear rims are at equal height with the different tire pressure, this would indicate tires are the issue.

And if you find the loader is level now with the rear rims at different heights, the root cause is likely not the tires and something else.

No question you solved your issue by varying side to side rear tire pressure.

But I do not think you put your finger on the root cause of the problem yet.