I remember reading something about a lawsuit involving Deere because they wouldn’t release software to diagnose or do any modification to their machines . I think that’s most companies now Adays. I’ve always been an advocate for good strong old machines anyway but , new machines make it harder and harder for the modern day farmers. You’d think after spending hundreds of thousands they would but no. My local dealer had no issues giving me copies of my machine WSMs, and I am grateful.
Diagnostics on Kubota Tractors
- Thread starter david b
- Start date
Dennis has let me 'fondle' theirs before. Only fondle though...
I guess if you really wanted to, you could buy another ECM (be apprised they ain't cheap) and fiddle with it, but then every model had a unique ECM so the cost might get a bit prohibitive.
I lieu of that, I think (if it was me), i'd dismiss the thoughts of fiddling with it, unless, of course you are very flush and don't care. Me, I'm not.
I don't see any of the proprietary software / hardware changing anytime soon which is the primary reason I prefer a mechanical engine. Might not be as efficient and probably pollutes a lot more but the less complex it is, the less the repair cost will be and I'm a long time ownership person.
No. Just getting started.
Good article about this on the business page of MSN today.
SDT
North Idaho Wolfman
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Staff member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
Change your search to include the words:
- Takeuchi Diagnostic
- Python Adapter
- activation service
For about $3,000 you can get the equipment and codes needed to be ready to go.
Remember only 5% of the world resides in the USA.
95% people (ROW) live outside the USA and often don't have access to dealers and "Big Government" stopping them from keeping their farming, logging, construction equipment up and running.
In eastern Europe, central and south americs and Asia most owners rarely ever take their equipment back to a dealer for repairs or service due to distances, costs, etc... In Brazil our farm was more than 3 days ride to nearest dealer. IMHO ROW much more independent minded.
- Takeuchi Diagnostic
- Python Adapter
- activation service
For about $3,000 you can get the equipment and codes needed to be ready to go.
Remember only 5% of the world resides in the USA.
95% people (ROW) live outside the USA and often don't have access to dealers and "Big Government" stopping them from keeping their farming, logging, construction equipment up and running.
In eastern Europe, central and south americs and Asia most owners rarely ever take their equipment back to a dealer for repairs or service due to distances, costs, etc... In Brazil our farm was more than 3 days ride to nearest dealer. IMHO ROW much more independent minded.
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North Idaho Wolfman
Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
NOT true...
USA only makes up 4.25%
95.75% makes up ROW...
You brought up some interesting possibilities that have not been available or I was not able to find before, I know because i researched it pretty heavy back in 2017 to fix a unit and I couldn't find anything back then.
Here is another option:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4wwHGKpaZw
And looky you can get it on amazon!
https://www.amazon.com/Takeuchi-Dia...t=&hvlocphy=9029659&hvtargid=pla-812415900864
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Kubota has issued legal statements regarding diagmaster. If you (techs) dig around, you'll find them. It is all protected.
I don't know the coding, iso numbers, I don't know any of that. I know it works and it's a very expensive set of tools that is required to maintain kubota dealership status.
The rest of the world is different than the USA.
Finally, when diagmaster is used for certain functions, information is sent--and that's all that can be said.
I don't know the coding, iso numbers, I don't know any of that. I know it works and it's a very expensive set of tools that is required to maintain kubota dealership status.
The rest of the world is different than the USA.
Finally, when diagmaster is used for certain functions, information is sent--and that's all that can be said.
Yep, just like all the other brands. You establish an Internet connection between the scan tool and the manufacturer and the data is shared.
I only know about Cummins Engine and DDEC, but they are very similar and I've observed JD doing diagnostic service on my buddy's JD ag tractors. Same deal, establish a connection and share data.
I wonder what Tier 5 will bring, or should I say 'what can of worms' comes with T5? I could see the Federal EPA removing the horsepower threshold and making ALL engines compliant. Wonder if that means catalytic converters on small gas engines too?
It's human nature to 'fiddle' but the 'fiddling' comes at a price.
Interesting read as it applies to Tier 4 and beyond... While it addresses Class 6-8 on road and construction diesel engines, the resale end applies to tractors too...
http://www.servicetruckmagazine.com/tier-4-mandate-drives-demand-for-non-tier-4-diesel-engines/
http://www.servicetruckmagazine.com/tier-4-mandate-drives-demand-for-non-tier-4-diesel-engines/
Too late? The small engines on two recent purchases I’ve made have a small “converter” attached to the exhaust pipe at the muffler.
Get used to it! People want to breathe cleaner air and the users of internal combustion engines is THEIR responsibility to not cause harm.
Eating of beans is not the same thing, however.
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OP here, thanks for all the replies!
After more research guided by a few of the responses here, I was able to find a 317 page PDF from Kubota that provided some information about Diagmaster, as well as a (seemingly) complete list of implemented DTCs along with detailed descriptions for each. It is specific to the V3307-CR-TE4 engine used in my tractor, but may be very applicable to other engine ECUs.
Several have posted that Kubota's diagnostic system is "proprietary" and that "no other diagnostic reader has the ability to read their computer system".
I don't believe this to be true. It appears that they are using 1 or more standard CAN bus protocols, common to the automotive and heavy duty truck industry. I'm prepared to go pretty far to reverse engineer, but from what I have seen so far, there isn't anything super secret going on here with regard to diagnostics. Clearing codes will certainly be challenging, but do-able. Reprogramming is not likely to be possible without lots of insider information that I probably won't be able to get.
Proposals on how to best share the doc described above? It answers at least 3 of the 4 questions I started this thread with.
More to come...
After more research guided by a few of the responses here, I was able to find a 317 page PDF from Kubota that provided some information about Diagmaster, as well as a (seemingly) complete list of implemented DTCs along with detailed descriptions for each. It is specific to the V3307-CR-TE4 engine used in my tractor, but may be very applicable to other engine ECUs.
Several have posted that Kubota's diagnostic system is "proprietary" and that "no other diagnostic reader has the ability to read their computer system".
I don't believe this to be true. It appears that they are using 1 or more standard CAN bus protocols, common to the automotive and heavy duty truck industry. I'm prepared to go pretty far to reverse engineer, but from what I have seen so far, there isn't anything super secret going on here with regard to diagnostics. Clearing codes will certainly be challenging, but do-able. Reprogramming is not likely to be possible without lots of insider information that I probably won't be able to get.
Proposals on how to best share the doc described above? It answers at least 3 of the 4 questions I started this thread with.
More to come...
OEM diagnostic software is hard to come by (near impossible) for many brands including Kubota, JD, CAT, Ford, GM, Dodge, etc.... as they tend not to sell outside their networks.
However like most things in life there are aftermarket choices.
For Kubota many fleet managers especially outside USA will use products from companies like TEXA or Takeuchi.
Both of these aftermarket programs will let you make stationary regens, cylinder cut-out tests, joystick calibrations, injector programming, dpf burns, ecu code resets, etc...
Not cheap but when no dealerships in your area or if you run a large fleet and have your own wrenchers they can be indispensable.
A lot of that described is, again, a violation of federal emissions regulation (at least here in the USA). Also, reverse engineering it could also be infringment on Kubota's rights, so be aware of what you're attempting to do-and aware of the liability that you are assuming in doing so.
Remember....there ARE people reading this that are directly affiliated with Kubota. Same with Farsebook. Are there any reading the forums that are affiliated with the federal government? Dunno.
Having dealt with the feds, I can, once again, tell you that they are NOT nice to deal with.
Remember....there ARE people reading this that are directly affiliated with Kubota. Same with Farsebook. Are there any reading the forums that are affiliated with the federal government? Dunno.
Having dealt with the feds, I can, once again, tell you that they are NOT nice to deal with.
Small cats have been on motorcycles for years. Also RTV500. Jet ski's had them in the early 2000's, 2 stroke even-and that was a nightmare to deal with. Guys would take a holiday weekend, burn through 80-100 gal of gas and burn a tank of oil. No specific oil around so they'd grab whatever they could find, quicksilver was everywhere at the time, but it was not compatible with catalyzers that were in use, so after a few hours of full throttle they'd notice that the speeds and acceleration were getting more sluggish. Tuesday morning (after a 3 day weekend) they'd show up griping, we'd pull the catalyzer out and it'd be completely melted to a mostly solid mass, restricting flow (and we all know that a gas 2 stroke is real sensitive to exhaust flow). Warranty no cover if the oil was known to be wrong stuff...made a lot of folks mad but at the same time there was no other way around it, manufacturer had no control of what people put in their ski's, but the manuals specifically stated to use only a certain type/kind and it also stated that the damage from using other kinds was not a warrantable defect; not even covered with emissions warranty. That stuff was no fun. Taking apart a ski engine down inside the hull is exactly why my back hurts on a continual basis. Hours bent over the stupid piles of steaming feces. I hated them. Thank goodness I don't see them anymore. Now that the 4 stroke stuff is mostly taken over, it's a non-issue mostly aside from the roots supercharged versions that need the blowers fogged after usage, or the rotors will stick together.
thanks.... I don't know specifics about JD lawsuits at all... but not at all surprised what you say about Cal Poly. Makes sense to me.
LOTS of U.S. companies like Sun and Mac Tools (and others from other countries) make and sell non OEM diagnostic and servicing software and hardware for the likes of BMW, GM, Honda/Acura, JLR, Toyota, Volkswagen/Audi, Volvo, Freightliner, Sterling, Mack, Western Star, International, Kenworth, Kubota, Peterbilt, International Bus, Blue Bird, Thomas PACCAR, CAT, International, Cummins, Volvo/Mack, Detroit Diesel, Mercedes, etc.... The list is endless and repair shops from coast to coast filled with them.
Wonder how JD will be successful stopping people using after market repair tools when other brands were not?? if they tried to shut down a piece of equipment because a non JD tech. worked on a machine with an after market code reader or other tool I think it would drive a lot of people away from their brand. I am sure JD would be thrilled if every piece of equipment they ever sold had to be serviced only in their dealerships.
Like RAM many years ago who tried to say if you used non Dodge/Ram oil your warranty would be void.
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Real simple actually, WARRANTY DENIED. I realize they (manufacturers) cannot deny a warranty if you use an aftermarket lubricant so long as that lubricant meets or exceeds their standards, but when it comes to everything else, the MM act don't apply.
So you hack into the ECM with a non authorized scan tool and alter any of the pre-programmed software, Deere or anyone else for that matter will know as soon as they plug in and at that point it's warranty denied.
I don't quite understand your motivation anyway. If you knowingly buy a piece of equipment and aware of the electronics involved, why screw with it in the first place.
Makes no sense to me.
So you hack into the ECM with a non authorized scan tool and alter any of the pre-programmed software, Deere or anyone else for that matter will know as soon as they plug in and at that point it's warranty denied.
I don't quite understand your motivation anyway. If you knowingly buy a piece of equipment and aware of the electronics involved, why screw with it in the first place.
Makes no sense to me.
That's fine while it's still under warranty, but it would be nice to have an inexpensive aftermarket option to do diagnostics on these modern tractors without taking them to the dealers when the warranty runs out.
Federal emissions warranty mandate is 5 or 6 years if I'm not mistaken. If it's gonna break it will, well before then, with the exception of the DPF cartridge which has a finite lifespan and has to be renewed or replaced because it gets loaded with burned ash and causes a pressure restriction in the exhaust system which the ECM senses and derates the engine.
If the system is functioning correctly, the renewal / replacement is easy. Just costs some jack but it's the 'green' way.
If the system is functioning correctly, the renewal / replacement is easy. Just costs some jack but it's the 'green' way.