Teaching Profession

[NHSleddog]

It turns out it is the teachers that are teaching all this crap.

This is my main complaint. Teachers teaching crap.

Having a bad student is no reason to teach them crap. It doesn't benefit anyone. If the same bad student is going to be bad regardless, why not teach them something meaningful like real math, even drug dealers (undocumented pharmacists) need math. This way all the other students in the class that are not knife throwing gang bangers can count when they get out.

What teachers teach is not the students fault.
What teachers teach is not the parents fault.

A teacher that knows they are teaching crap and does nothing about it, is also not the student or parents fault; and is a big part of the problem.

 

[Tornado]

While Ill be the first to admit that I think some curriculum has definitely been tainted by a left wing bias - that is provable, I don't think you can take that and then paint ALL school as being total crap. There are bad teachers, and bad schools, and I experienced that first hand when I attended high school. The problem though ultimately with my highschool, was really really terrible students who dragged the whole system down. I watched so many new teachers get hired then literally quite 1-2 months later just from the abuse and chaos on campus. It was truly a mad house most days. I dont know if some of you older folks here know how bad it is now - Im not too far removed from highschool, graduating in early 2000's. I witnessed students spitting in teachers faces, throwing desks across the room, going on a rampage and breaking things and having to be escorted out by 2 or 3 administrators, Ive seen some teachers literally break down in tears from the abuse and have to leave the classroom, as students relentlessly goaded and attacked them. Going through highschool made me feel very sad about humanity. I was so glad to get out of it. It was depressing. There was NO WAY for a good kid who wanted to learn actually advance in this environment. Some classes we never did have a steady teacher- it was lots of substitutes coming in just to largely babysit. I can remember these substitutes, often young and with little experience being taken advantage of. I remember one day kids putting a tape on the tv of pornography then preventing the teachedr from turning it off and just laughing and going crazy. I sat quietly, often alone, in the corner watching the madness and just wanting to go home. The bad apples ruled the roost. Discipline was no where to be seen. ALL of this crap starts at home from piss poor parents, and people having babies who shouldnt be having babies. THIS is the ultimately ground zero problem with kids today - the schools often dont help, and have their own problems but it all starts at home. Even if schools were excellent it woldnt make a lot of impact I feel, unless they start expelling students on a mass scale, and that will never happen.

 

[bird dogger]

When my kids were in grade school they wasted a whole year in their math classes. Their math book was designed to teach them anything BUT how to do math and solve the problems. In addition, the math book was full of errors and I’d show the kids the proper way to solve the problem and come up with the proper answer. I’d send notes along to give to the teacher to correct the errors in the book and finally got a note back from her, “Do not help your kids with their math! This is not how we teach math today.” I made sure the kids then did double duty: Do the work wrong as the book showed and also do the work correctly to arrive at the right answer. This same teacher, by the way, had a giant poster on her classroom door of an ugly man with a caption underneath that read, “Homework makes you UGLY!”

They spent a whole semester on a method called “Guess and Check”. Given a problem, they were to pick an answer from a multiple choice option that they felt was closest to the right answer. However, they weren’t required to do the math and record the correct answer. None of the multiple choice answers were correct either. Everything was just guessing. Again, I made them do double work but only turn in the stupid guessing game answers.

At a parent teacher’s conference with this math teacher she said our kids were doing well despite my extra help that wasn’t needed. I disagreed but didn’t push it. When we were done my wife noticed all new cabinetry in the classroom. The teacher said it was sure nice but had to show us the poor workmanship inside the cabinets. Wherever there was a wall outlet or cable hookup there had been multiple attempts to cut an opening for access to the outlet. There were at least three holes in about half a dozen cabinets that had one outlet in it. The teacher was mad at the shoddy workmanship and said so. I told her it was quite obvious what the problem had been and waited for her response. Finally she asked. I told her those workers had graduated from her math class and were using the “Guess and Check” method just as they had been taught to do. The look on her face was priceless as we walked out the door. My wife said I shouldn’t have done that. I just smiled.

 

[NHSleddog]

..... "The teacher was mad at the shoddy workmanship and said so. I told her it was quite obvious what the problem had been and waited for her response. Finally she asked. I told her those workers had graduated from her math class and were using the “Guess and Check” method just as they had been taught to do. The look on her face was priceless as we walked out the door...

Priceless. This goes under the "it is funny because it is true" column.

I did a 2 year stint on the local school board when my kids were in the thick of it, it was basically 2 years of pissing up a rope and listening to the same excuses and never hearing a single solution. In fact every suggestion brought up that wasn't the party line was vehemently shot down.

 

[dochsml]

Around here, they don't even teach kids how to write in cursive anymore (except how to sign their own name). I guess it would be quite handy if you want to write a note that you don't want them to be able to read.

 

[Tornado]

When my kids were in grade school they wasted a whole year in their math classes. Their math book was designed to teach them anything BUT how to do math and solve the problems. In addition, the math book was full of errors and I’d show the kids the proper way to solve the problem and come up with the proper answer. I’d send notes along to give to the teacher to correct the errors in the book and finally got a note back from her, “Do not help your kids with their math! This is not how we teach math today.” I made sure the kids then did double duty: Do the work wrong as the book showed and also do the work correctly to arrive at the right answer. This same teacher, by the way, had a giant poster on her classroom door of an ugly man with a caption underneath that read, “Homework makes you UGLY!”

They spent a whole semester on a method called “Guess and Check”. Given a problem, they were to pick an answer from a multiple choice option that they felt was closest to the right answer. However, they weren’t required to do the math and record the correct answer. None of the multiple choice answers were correct either. Everything was just guessing. Again, I made them do double work but only turn in the stupid guessing game answers.

At a parent teacher’s conference with this math teacher she said our kids were doing well despite my extra help that wasn’t needed. I disagreed but didn’t push it. When we were done my wife noticed all new cabinetry in the classroom. The teacher said it was sure nice but had to show us the poor workmanship inside the cabinets. Wherever there was a wall outlet or cable hookup there had been multiple attempts to cut an opening for access to the outlet. There were at least three holes in about half a dozen cabinets that had one outlet in it. The teacher was mad at the shoddy workmanship and said so. I told her it was quite obvious what the problem had been and waited for her response. Finally she asked. I told her those workers had graduated from her math class and were using the “Guess and Check” method just as they had been taught to do. The look on her face was priceless as we walked out the door. My wife said I shouldn’t have done that. I just smiled.

Thats wild. See, if I were in your shoes, because im a very inquisitive person I would pull up a chair with this teacher and ask her to explain to me the purpose behind this approach. Because there has to be one. I dont think the people writing this circulum have a vested interest in making kids stupid, so what is the objective? Even if I disagree with it I want to understand where they are trying to come from. They obviously feel this is the way to go, but why? tell me why, tell me how this is better, and explain why it was needed.

 

[NHSleddog]

....They obviously feel this is the way to go, but why? tell me why, tell me how this is better, and explain why it was needed.

Yes, and why they are stupider now because of it. Please explain it.

My youngest son had a whole section on "assumed numbers" with some absurd method to arrive at the answer. He was asking me for help and I could not get past seeing the answer. Example, 12 squared minus 8. - most of us see 136. So he asks me to help with his process and no matter how we do it, it does not come up to 136. It was absolutely mind blowing, how in the world will they ever learn to count if they don't learn to count? Worse than that, this method would always leave you guessing and never knowing an actual answer.

At that point I took over his math teaching. He was downgraded on a paper for not using their "method" once but all the answers were right. I told him not to worry about it, he will always be able to count now so the joke is on them.

It is a teacher teaching that. Not a bad parent or a bad student but a teacher. Why? That is a good question Tornado.

 

[skeets]

I am not a teacher but I did stay at a Holiday Inn one time Anyways, I have several friend whose wives are teachers, and they care about the kids. One guy told me how much his wife spent out of her pocket to get supplies for her classes to use. Why because the school had a very limited budget for school supplies, HOWEVER the budget for the athletic department was shall we say astronomical!
As I understand it, the lesson plans have been already assigned and any deviation from the plan is met with disdain and ridicule with possible repercussions for not following said plan. And when so called history books leave things out. Like ohh I dont know, say maybe the 2nd, 4th and several amendment's. Why? The only thing I can figure is it does not fit the agenda of the system. The grand kids are starting this year to learn cursive writing, kind of hard for a kid that is 14 and 12 and has been taught to print since K. I think there are a lot of very fine teachers out there and they want the best for the kids, but the system will not let them teach, right from wrong, history, math, or even English literature in a lot of cases. I know kids that have gone on to collage and have no idea who Gen Sherman or Lee or Grant were, never heard of Pearl Harbor, and dont know a thing about Vietnam.
And on the flip side there are those that have just given up and are just there for a paycheck and dont care

 

[BigG]

NHSLEDDOG

I am sorry that you think a teacher can teach whatever they want.

I will try one more time. The people on the assembly line that built the Ford Edsel most likely knew it was one of the ugliest cars ever built. But they needed their job. So they built what the boss said to build, a damn ugly car that did not sell very well.

They could have gone on strike. Instead they built what they were told to build.They had families to feed.

The teacher is told what to teach and their students are tested to see if the students learned what they were supposed to be taught. If they do not learn what the school board says is correct then out the door you go.


Why didn't you change what was being taught when you were on the school board? You were the boss.

I am pretty sure that you would not have been very happy with the teacher telling the board what to do.

 

[NHSleddog]

NHSLEDDOG

I am sorry that you think a teacher can teach whatever they want.

I will try one more time. The people on the assembly line that built the Ford Edsel most likely knew it was one of the ugliest cars ever built. But they needed their job. So they built what the boss said to build, a damn ugly car that did not sell very well.

They could have gone on strike. Instead they built what they were told to build.They had families to feed.

The teacher is told what to teach and their students are tested to see if the students learned what they were supposed to be taught. If they do not learn what the school board says is correct then out the door you go.


Why didn't you change what was being taught when you were on the school board? You were the boss.

I am pretty sure that you would not have been very happy with the teacher telling the board what to do.

I thought I mentioned the result of the wasted time on the school board. It was pissing up a rope. No ideas allowed. Two years totally wasted.

You are sorry I think a teacher can't teach what they want? Well I am sorry you think teaching kids crap for a paycheck is OK, different views I guess.

I have had stupid bosses before and stupid jobs, we all have our own line and moral compass.

I will say it one more time and maybe you can see what I am saying,

It isn't the student, bad or good teaching the crap.
It isn't the parent bad or good teaching the crap.
It is the teachers teaching it, is that right or not? . If the entire profession (as you stated) can't stand the common core crap why are they ruining our kids with it? If the entire teaching profession walked out next Monday and demanded a change, it would be in place by Friday. Obviously there are a whole lot of teachers perfectly fine teaching the kids crap to collect a check.

They always cry about money but we give them the most in the world.

But it doesn't matter. If we gave every teacher in the country $250,000.00 STARTING pay PLUS $250,000.00 in benefits.
An ARMED guard in every class.
A Para for EVERY STUDENT.
ONE student PER teacher.

I mean really blow it out and spend a trillion on it next year.

Guess what? You are still teaching them crap. All the money in the world won't fix that, which is funny because fixing the problem would actually save us a ton of money.

.

 

[bearbait]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M4_Ommfvv0

 

[D2Cat]

I've been reading this thread, and I can see both sides of the situation.

One position says the teachers teach what's determined to be taught by folks further up the food chain. They have a job and to support their family do as directed, many even spending their own funds to supplement studies.

Another position says the teachers teach subjects that are not usable in real life situations, and should not continue doing so. The problem could be stopped by them just not teaching.

Without getting into lack of parenting at home, funding, book cost and design, etc. consider this:

There are folks on this forum who would like upgraded software. They are knowledgeable of what it does, how it works, why it is needed, and probably cost. Others just stop by once in a while, some hang out more frequently, but don't really care if the forum will last a long time or see a need for it to get upgraded software.

One position could be for the folks who come here to change to the new software. But how do they do that, they are not in control of the forum? We're (the users) too far down the food chain to make big changes. We can, as individuals, quit using the forum....go on strike so to speak... but that could be ineffective. Major change of any kind takes many folks working together, pulling in the same direction.

When a machine's transmission is jammed between two gears it isn't moving. We have this problem all over, the education system, politics, and even this forum!

 

[NHSleddog]

This is why most analogies don't work well.

First off there is nobody on the forum teaching crap - (give a guy a long convoluted process to change his oil that doesn't result in the oil being changed. Users HERE (fellow teachers) would hold that moron with the bad advice accountable, they would not allow the teaching of crap to continue without calling it out.

Second point, if we all left the forum, it would go away. It is a simple matter of economics. Unlike the school, the forum owners don't get a automatic budget with millions o play with regardless of how bad the product is. But tractors and the need to tractor them will go on, so there will be a new forum or the like put in place by someone else that sees the need.

You do bring up a great point though - it takes a group to make the change. In this case the teachers union in America is the largest there is. They could make the change before the second period bell. Unfortunately they don't want to.

All the money in the world will not fix it in spite of what the same "teachers" tell you. The fix will actually save tens of millions of dollars. Which, funny enough would leave more money for the teachers pay.

.

 

[bird dogger]

Priceless. This goes under the "it is funny because it is true" column.

I did a 2 year stint on the local school board when my kids were in the thick of it, it was basically 2 years of pissing up a rope and listening to the same excuses and never hearing a single solution. In fact every suggestion brought up that wasn't the party line was vehemently shot down.

LOL! Unfortunately, that's about the only time I was able to think on my feet and come up with a good zinger on the spot. Agree with you, whole heartedly. The only thing that teacher was directly responsible for was the poor judgement in the display of that poster. Others must have thought the same because it was gone by the next parent/teacher conference.

 

[bird dogger]

Thats wild. See, if I were in your shoes, because im a very inquisitive person I would pull up a chair with this teacher and ask her to explain to me the purpose behind this approach. Because there has to be one. I dont think the people writing this circulum have a vested interest in making kids stupid, so what is the objective? Even if I disagree with it I want to understand where they are trying to come from. They obviously feel this is the way to go, but why? tell me why, tell me how this is better, and explain why it was needed.

Tornado, we did. Both with that teacher and the school board. The answer: That was the curriculum purchased and that’s what will be taught. It was the best choice they had at the time. End of discussion.

My wife is a teacher (now retired) but in a different school district than we lived in. She even served on this same school board for two years and tried to push for some more basic fundamental teaching but it went nowhere. There’s some truth in everyone’s posts in this thread. There are good teachers and bad. Same with parents and kids. Same with school board members. Lack of discipline at home and inability for the teachers to dish it out when needed. The money issue can depend on the geographic area as there’s very rich school districts and very poor districts. Local opinions vs state and federal legislation…It goes on and on and no one size can be compared to the other. Our kids school district wasn’t poor by any means. But it seemed to be run by so called local big shots and most all spending and curriculum was sports oriented rather than education. And if you weren’t in that small inner circle your views didn’t matter. Most of the school board was of the same view, along with the superintendent and principal. The good teachers left cuz they couldn’t fight the system. It was a constant struggle to keep our kids on the right path and augment their schooling with sound methods and proper learning. We didn’t get married til later in life so we were older parents and held different values than the kids who had kids that were in the same grades as ours.

One day our two boys came home from school. They were one grade apart but shared the same friends. Something was up and when asked, they weren’t sure they should tell me. They thought I’d get extremely mad. I think they wanted to shame me and finally decided to spill the beans. They and all their friends (might have even been a class project, who knows?) had taken a poll and voted on who had the strictest parent. Of course I had won in a landslide. When they told me, I gave a fist pump and yelled “YES”!! They asked why I was happy about that and were told that that confirmed I was doing my job as a parent. They were in junior high at the time. They didn’t have all the goodies their entitled friends had. Didn’t have their own car in high school. They worked and started saving for college since they were each in 3rd grade (grew/sold sweet corn). I was not as popular a parent (by far) as some of their friends parents were. But fast forward 10+ yrs. Both came out of college with great grades, great degrees, and great jobs. (Civil Engineer and Electrical/Electronic Technician). Plus, they graduated debt free and already have purchased their own homes, cars, and toys. Still single. No drugs and will barely touch a beer….even though I try hard to share a beer with them now and then.

I’m slowly regaining some of that lost popularity by not just being a friend instead of a parent when they compare where they are in life vs a lot of their former classmates that can’t even balance their own checkbook. I smile when they tell me that their old classmates can’t figure out how they can do what they do, have what they have, and not have any debt other than their house payments. They haven’t said it outright but I think the day is soon coming when I’ll hear, “Boy, dad, you were so right on a lot of things!” I’m not holding my breath…..but I think they’re thinking about it. I’m sure glad those years are over with! Here’s a few pics of their early corn business. 3 acres is a LOT of sweet corn to grow, pick, and sell.

 

[NHSleddog]

...
View attachment 47454 View attachment 47455 View attachment 47456 View attachment 47457

Fantastic.

 

[dirtydeed]

Bird Dogger...awesome! I was beginning to lose faith. So good to see some examples like that.

 

[shootem604]

I work much harder than I would otherwise have to so I can to pay for tuition to send my kids to a private school, instead of taking it easy and sending them to the free public school.

The school board is accountable, teachers are accountable, students excel, and the indoctrination doesn't happen.

The public school focuses on the latest flavour (indigenous history, Marxism, new math, genderbending, BLTQABC, etc) and skips over the fundamentals.

This is a small private, church run school, K-12, still meets the provincial curriculum requirements, and the class size varies from low 20's to high 30's but every grade scores higher on standardized tests than ANY public school in the province.

The teachers are paid the same as the public system, get benefits and child care, but are non-union. The school operates at approximately 80% of the cost of the average public school of equivalent size, and parents fundraise and pay tuition to supplement the government grant which is 50% of what the public schools get per student.

The system is broken. Force it to compete with the private system by providing parents with vouchers so they can choose where they want to send their kids.

 

[D2Cat]

Everyone is in awe of the lion tamer in the cage with a half dozen lions---everyone but the school bus drivers!