Property line etiquette

[dlundblad]

We have some farmers here. *Sidecarflip cough cough*

We bought a house that had some land that was cash rented. Fall 2018 they plowed as if they were no longer going to farm our land so I assumed all was good, but the info wasnt shared with their farm hand. I came home to a freshly plowed back yard last spring so i immediately went to the neighbor to clarify who the people were and went to their house and explained my situation to his wife. I was asked if the land was surveyed (whatever that means; they knew they rented from the PO of the property) and I said yes and that I was planning on planting trees and no longer wanted it to be farmed.

I had the property surveyed when we bought the house which was 7 months prior to the above situation and have since planted about $800 in trees excluding my labor, tiller rental, fuel etc. I would like to put a fence up on the lines between the farmer and I for obvious reasons. Where is the correct area to put the corner post? Slightly favoring my side so there is no risk of the survey pin being hit or on their side out of politeness? We are talking a 6 inch difference.

Currently, they farmed about 5 feet of our area along the property line. To me, it is a none issue once the fence is up.

Thanks guys.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

The 'correct' position would be WHERE the 'iron bar' or 'marker' is, however I'd put it 6" on YOUR side, then takes LOTS of good pictures showing the marker and your fence post. Also write onto YOUR survey where your post is.
Local city may have bylaws about fence locations, so be sure to check with them AND get whatever they 'say' IN WRITING !!!
BTW, it's a good idea to put 'penny pavers'( round concrete patio stones) where EVERY survey marker is , actually 2or 3, Oreo cookie style, then you can FIND the bars later......

Up here I know one guy who bought property without a survey, has done work to house, oopsy.....he's got FOUR vilotations agin him....he SHOULD have paid the $700, TEN years ago to have a real, legal survey....oh well....not MY problem...

 

[dlundblad]

The 'correct' position would be WHERE the 'iron bar' or 'marker' is, however I'd put it 6" on YOUR side, then takes LOTS of good pictures showing the marker and your fence post. Also write onto YOUR survey where your post is.
Local city may have bylaws about fence locations, so be sure to check with them AND get whatever they 'say' IN WRITING !!!
BTW, it's a good idea to put 'penny pavers'( round concrete patio stones) where EVERY survey marker is , actually 2or 3, Oreo cookie style, then you can FIND the bars later......

Up here I know one guy who bought property without a survey, has done work to house, oopsy.....he's got FOUR vilotations agin him....he SHOULD have paid the $700, TEN years ago to have a real, legal survey....oh well....not MY problem...

Thanks.

I should add the pin is currently marked with a fence post I just hammered in. Currently favoring my side, but easily fixable obviously.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Owning farmland like I do that has residences abutting some of it. RIGHT ON THE PROPERTY LINE. Keep in mind that even at 6" in, you relinquish that land after 10 years (here in Michigan) though you still pay taxes on it.

Had that issue with a property owner adjacent to a field that 'thought my field was his private playground to run his 4 wheelers on. Took him to court after being nice did't work. Had to get a restraining order against him and subsequently I sued him for damages to the ground from rutting it (it's a hayfield). He lost and had to compensate me for incurred damages (had to have soil hauled in and levelled by a contractor and he paid for seed too. Alfalfa ain't cheap.

Was almost 2 grand in damages. Needless to say he stays off my ground and glares at me when I see him. Tough shitte. Tried to be nice before I got nasty.

There is no etiquitte when it comes to property lines in my view. I pay the taxes and own the land, stay off it.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

hmm.. as SCF says 6" could be a LOT of land you'll lose, so YES ..put on property line if at all possible.
When you think about it, with ANY fence you 'lose' the 6" agin the fenceline to weeds or stones anyway so if you put 6" onto your side, you're really losing a FOOT ! If pty line is 100', that's 100 sq ft or over 3 FULL 4by8 sheets of plywood in area. THAT area can grow a LOT of veggies !!!

 

[BigG]

You also need to check for any type of restrictions on the type of fence, barbed wire, woven wire, smooth high tension wire or wooden that you can use for a line fence. Also think about where to place a gate.You might need to get a septic truck or something like that into the back yard sometime in the future.

On my property I simply ran the posts along the line and placed the "No Trespassing" signs facing out. According to the deputy I spoke to this was enough to stop someone from trying to fish on my lake. The signs were all I needed to do to have them arrested.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

When we bought our property years ago I had an old guy that lived behind me that thought anything he wanted to do was fine and dandy, and he treated every neighbor the same way.
At some point in time he used to own our place.
He insisted to everyone that he had a 30 foot easement across and around every piece of property around him (farming easement to turn his tractors around) and yes there at some point was some law (long overturned) to that effect, he twisted it as the law read 15 feet either side of centerline could be use to turn farm equipment around (horse drawn equipment days) without either party trespassing or being held responsible for crop damage.

Well he passed away and the family sold everything (2500+ acres) and moved away.
The new owners are a really environmentally friendly corporation, It's a tree farm and they use the spruce trees for oils.

They have been nothing except exceptional neighbors from day one.

I thought my property line in the back was accurate, one end was bearing post marker (section corner) and a well established fence with a huge tree right on the "thought to be corner", well it turns out, nope 30 feet in my favor away was the real corner.
The new owners had all the corners surveyed because one neighbor brought it up that he thought it was off.

As it turns out they lost over 30 acres in land when the survey was done.
I gained about 1 acre of land, I had been paying taxes on land he was using, as were all the other neighbors.

They were great about all of it, as you can't sight line the property line corner to corner as it's over and down a hill, so they paid to have it marked off so we could follow it all the way down.

Our other three property lines are well marked and established.

So on yours, fence line goes on the property line, do not put any variance in it even inches off add up!
Like others have said you pay the taxes on it, and it's yours!

 

[D2Cat]

When a surveyor inserts any pins in the ground I own I have always taken an auto axle and knock the wheel studs out. Take the re-bar that is often the survey pin and waller it around in the ground. Then insert the splined end of the axle in that hole and drive until the wheel flange is about an inch below the soil. Paint at Kubota orange (or Chev engine orange). Then it's easy to see and easy to find years later with a metal detector. And they NEVER get pulled out.

If it's an easy boundary to see, then put the fence on the boundary. If you have creeks and water-gaps you have to compromise and put the fence where it will go.

If you're outside any city limits it might be beneficial to contact your local Extension Agent to be made aware of any ruling regarding fencing.

I take it the neighbor farmer is not farming the land you recently bought. States have various laws regarding when an existing farmer must be notified a rented property will no longer be available. In Kansas, without going into detail, it's several months and it has to be in writing.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

just thought of this... use a 'smart device' and get the GPS of the pins. OK, won't be pinpoint accurate BUT probably better than 'it' s about 3 feet left of where the old apple tree was' kindof measurement !!
Using an old brake drum is GREAT..give a metal detector an easy target to locate.

 

[ccoon520]

I'd just ask the neighbor if they would be ok with you putting it directly on the property line and see if they would be ok with a 50% ownership of the fence after installed (get it in writing if they agree to it). This helps both parties by them avoiding accidentally ruining your land and a free fence install while you get some peace of mind and some help with upkeep on the fence in the future.

I know quite a few farmers who own cattle and plant on their land because neither wants to loose farmland and need a fence up to keep the cows in when they let them feed on the stalks.

If they disagree go to the county seat and ask what the codes are for putting up a fence on your property. You may be able to put it directly on the property line anyway because if you think about it a lot of in town neighbors have fences that they share and is probably directly on the property line.

 

[dlundblad]

By law, Indiana allows you to do the 50/50 fence thing. I don***8217;t plan on doing that. I have no issue footing the bill.

 

[D2Cat]

What is the length of fence you will install, and how permanent does it need to be, what style of fence are you considering?

You could actually install good ,solid deep post at each end of the field the neighbor is working where the survey pins are. Then just run a strand of elec. fence wire and install elec fence post every 20-30'. That simple wire will represent your boundary and keep him from working that ground.

 

[dlundblad]

When a surveyor inserts any pins in the ground I own I have always taken an auto axle and knock the wheel studs out. Take the re-bar that is often the survey pin and waller it around in the ground. Then insert the splined end of the axle in that hole and drive until the wheel flange is about an inch below the soil. Paint at Kubota orange (or Chev engine orange). Then it's easy to see and easy to find years later with a metal detector. And they NEVER get pulled out.

If it's an easy boundary to see, then put the fence on the boundary. If you have creeks and water-gaps you have to compromise and put the fence where it will go.

If you're outside any city limits it might be beneficial to contact your local Extension Agent to be made aware of any ruling regarding fencing.

I take it the neighbor farmer is not farming the land you recently bought. States have various laws regarding when an existing farmer must be notified a rented property will no longer be available. In Kansas, without going into detail, it's several months and it has to be in writing.

The written notification could certainly be the case, but they plowed Fall 2018 shortly after we bought the place and didnt plow our property. I thought all was good.

 

[dlundblad]

What is the length of fence you will install, and how permanent does it need to be, what style of fence are you considering?

You could actually install good ,solid deep post at each end of the field the neighbor is working where the survey pins are. Then just run a strand of elec. fence wire and install elec fence post every 20-30'. That simple wire will represent your boundary and keep him from working that ground.

For the time being, Ive thought about a simple electric fence wire. Would like to have a substantial corner post though.

 

[RCW]

At the risk of over-simplifying matters, my experiences with farmers and rented lots and/or property boundaries are usually pretty simple.

That's usually....

It doesn't sound like your farmer is trying to be a dick.

Sounds like he understands the lease is now longer in effect. His question about the survey was legitimate, just to make sure he doesn't encroach on your property in the future.

I trust most farmers more than anyone else. A simple line of small markers with orange flagging will give him a line to stay off from this spring. I would put it on the line. 6" one way or another isn't going to bother him unless he's coming by with a 1 or 2-bottom plow.

I grew up as a farm kid, so maybe I'm too trusting.

I bought a next-door property from my neighbor farmer while back. We literally had nothing more than a handshake agreement for 2 years until we closed (local subdivision regulation bullshit took forever). My offer was $1,000/acre (it's only 1.75 acres).

My father said "you're gonna lose that...he's gonna walk away from the deal." I said I doubt it.....and we now own it.

Again, sometimes we over-think. Sometimes I over-simplify, but if I'm gonna trust somebody, it's that guy that owns the tractor to make his living....

 

[goin camping]

I would put the fence so that my posts touched my side of the property line. Which I did at this place. I'd really hate losing any land. Even an inch.

 

[skeets]

https://youtu.be/uzLml7JdQDQ

 

[johnjk]

I was able to go out to my county auditor site and get the lat/lon positions for 10 points on my property. I'm gonna get out with a metal detector to see if I can't find the pins and place metal posts where they should be so I have a better visual of the line. It will be interesting to see how close I get to the county pins with their coordinates

 

[Tornado]

This topic touches squarely in my line of work. I am a certified appraiser in florida and work for the government here. I am also a GIS mapping technician and have worked in cadastral mapping for 15 years now. The question you ask here is one I encounter on a near daily basis in my work. The first thing I would say is that every state is different with regards to ad valorem tax laws and statutes that govern property assessment and ownership, so I would suggest you contact your local property tax assessor office for a good first stop.

When it comes to putting up a fence, I always tell people to put the fence JUST inside your line. You do not want any part of your fence to extend beyond the property boundary. This means you need GOOD survey markers. Do not estimate where you "think" the line is. Make sure you have every bearing change marked with a survey marker. If you are missing some markers, or cant find them, then have a surveyor come out and remark the corners for you. I see people all the time try to avoid a survey and put up a fence using an ortho map with ownership lines overlayed. You simply cant do this. So I would just stress that you have accurate markers for every bearing change you plan to fence along. Drive you down some little stakes right next to the marker, directly on the line, and pull a string between your stakes. Put your fence up just inside the string.

 

[Tornado]

I was able to go out to my county auditor site and get the lat/lon positions for 10 points on my property. I'm gonna get out with a metal detector to see if I can't find the pins and place metal posts where they should be so I have a better visual of the line. It will be interesting to see how close I get to the county pins with their coordinates

How did they determine these Lat/Lon positions? Id be curious if in your state or area they actually use Lat/Long to mark property corners. Surveyors typically do not use lat/long in surveying. They instead use a PLSS (Public Land Survey System). You can however get Lat/Long coordinates from a GIS mapping system, but this data would NOT be survey accurate, only a very close estimation for where a corner should be located. Just be aware that the corners you are looking for were likely NOT put in using GPS coordinates. This is another issue I encounter a lot in my work. Also note that not all Survey markers are metal. Many are metal, but many are also concrete, and some of the newer markers are a type of plastic with a cap. These markers are typically buried and can be hard to locate without surveying equipment.