new to me b1750HST w/tranny noise

[mattbatson]

I'm working to diagnose a rumbling sound that occurs intermittently.

sounds like a bucket of bolts being shaken...in other words it isnt the best noise i could hear

happens when it is just idling...comes and goes...if i turn up the engine speed. it does go away

at least this is what i've seen from just a few minutes of running it
Dont want to run much till I figure this out to prevent more possible damage

I will keep this thread updated with all of my actions towards solving the problem, to possibly help someone else with same issue

First step I took was check oil level and then to replace the cartridge filter

Today I'm going to clean the screen filters
I'm not sure where both are, but do think i found where one is...down at a big hardline connection for hyd's next to tranny drain bolt...however this bolt head is pretty buggered, so hope i can get it off

factory shop manual, which I have, gives full troubleshooting procedure for hst tranny noise.
I'll be following and will give updates
Today will also take video of the noise

 

[mattbatson]

Okay, so we have had monsoon weather for days here in florida and havent been able to work on the tractor

but today found a few minutes between rain bands and went out and fired it up with plans to video tape the noise and post onto here.

So, I had the tin cover off that sits on top of the cartridge filter and covers the hole that exposes both a driveshaft looking thing and a universal joint that is next to it.

I start it and almost immediately hear the noise, look down and see that there is some interference of some sort between the driveshaft and the universal joint.

Then, they started to spin on their own and no noise.
They were touching though, for a second or two, and this is what was causing the noise.
I'll get pics on here tomorrow.
I ran it for a bit after and even drove it around and such, and no more noise/interference. Ran fine.

I know this sounds kind of weird, but I will look at it more closely tomorrow and see what I can find out.

 

[mattbatson]

alrighty, so interesting day today...

I got under the tractor and watched while the wife fired up the tractor so I could see what was going on with the driveshaft.
Turns out, the main driveshaft from the engine to tranny isnt actually hitting the front wheel driveshaft at all.

what happened was, she starts the tractor, the main driveshaft is turning, a few seconds later it stops turning and you hear the bucket of bolts noise...this lasted for about 4 seconds, then the noise stopped and the driveshaft started turning again.

I hit the zerk fittings at the front and rear of the main driveshaft and noticed that this oil seal was out of place...pushed it back into place with a screwdriver....
http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u137/mattbatson/?action=view&current=001-1.jpg

So anyways, I run the tractor in my driveway several times throughout the day and the noise never comes back. Everything seems to be running normally.

So, in the afternoon, I decide to take it to my backyard to test out the FEL on some bushes I want to remove.

I push into the bushes a couple of times, and on the third push the engine starts running differently and there is some belt squeal from the alternator belt and then the engine dies.

Hmmmm,
So, I try to restart but no go.

Back to square one

 

[mattbatson]

okay ,
so I go out to take a look at the starter.

I pull off all the side body panels to expose the starter and I notice the bottom bolt for the starter is missing, and appears to be sheared off.

then, I start looking back further and notice an increasing gap between the engine and bellhousing...as you go up towards the center top the gap increases

tried to take some pics, but with the fuel tank in place, it is hard to get a good shot...next step is to remove fuel tank

http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u137/mattbatson/tractor/?action=view&current=007-1.jpg

also, the bellhousing/engine mount bolt is sheared off where I'm pointing in the above pic...the threaded portion is still screwed in, but the shank of the bolt and bolt head are missing.

I have no idea what would have caused all this.

After I get the tank off I'll have a better idea, as everything is really buried back there.

 

[mattbatson]

took some pics after I got the hood off...the tank is going to take a while as there is a lot to remove for that

http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/...batson/tractor/?action=view&current=012-1.jpg

the top four bolts of the gear case/bellhousing are missing or broken off. The gear case is shattered/broken and you can see down inside of the case.

hard to tell by the pics, couldnt get the flash to do it's job well...but you could stick a finger into the gear case if you could get your hand down there.

so, local kubota dealer says they would have to split the tractor in half (whatever that means) and remove the engine...and would be at least 20 hrs at 75 bucks per hour.

so, looks like I'm gonna be tearing this sucker apart by myself

 

[mattbatson]

geez, that gear case part is 3K new, and there are only two available..both in CA

My plan is to hopefully avoid buying new, and to take this gear case into a metal fab shop and get them to do some magic

of course, this is probably a month away, as it is going to take me a while to get everything apart

 

[hodge]

How did you purchase this tractor? Did you not go over it before buying?
I suspect that a metal fab shop won't be able to help you. You are probably going to be searching for a donor tractor.
By the looks of things, someone must have dropped the tractor hard on the belly, or something like that. I can see it opening from the top down, but not from the bottom up- that is some amazing damage. Who knows what else is messed up on the tractor.
Did you just buy it? Can you get anything out of the previous owner?

 

[mattbatson]

How did you purchase this tractor? Did you not go over it before buying?
I suspect that a metal fab shop won't be able to help you. You are probably going to be searching for a donor tractor.
By the looks of things, someone must have dropped the tractor hard on the belly, or something like that. I can see it opening from the top down, but not from the bottom up- that is some amazing damage. Who knows what else is messed up on the tractor.
Did you just buy it? Can you get anything out of the previous owner?

Hey, do I know you from another forum?

I bought it from a dealer, and he has offered to give me 500 bucks for my trouble. He said he bought it from an auction in PA.

I am new to tractors, but am a decent mechanic who has been around. When looking at the tractor, this damage is impossible to see unless you start removing body panels. Even with body panels removed, it is very difficult to see.
Call me crazy, but I'm guessing most people arent doing this when looking at a tractor.
Most people will try to see what they can see, run it, check operation of everything, etc...
and if you did that with this tractor, you would have been oblivious to the real damage underneath.

I agree that something serious must have happened to this tractor, but unfortunately that is the breaks...this is a risk you take when buying used I guess.

The frame is not cracked or bent from what I can see, and cannot see any other damage underneath...so not sure what happened exactly to this tractor.

I will know more about whether a metal fab shop can help me once I get it off.
I've had fab shop's repair stuff like this in the past, so I'm still hopeful.

 

[hodge]

Hey, do I know you from another forum?

I bought it from a dealer, and he has offered to give me 500 bucks for my trouble. He said he bought it from an auction in PA.

I am new to tractors, but am a decent mechanic who has been around. When looking at the tractor, this damage is impossible to see unless you start removing body panels. Even with body panels removed, it is very difficult to see.
Call me crazy, but I'm guessing most people arent doing this when looking at a tractor.
Most people will try to see what they can see, run it, check operation of everything, etc...
and if you did that with this tractor, you would have been oblivious to the real damage underneath.

I agree that something serious must have happened to this tractor, but unfortunately that is the breaks...this is a risk you take when buying used I guess.

The frame is not cracked or bent from what I can see, and cannot see any other damage underneath...so not sure what happened exactly to this tractor.

I will know more about whether a metal fab shop can help me once I get it off.
I've had fab shop's repair stuff like this in the past, so I'm still hopeful.

Don't take me wrong- I certainly hope that it can be repaired (and hold up), and I know that you can't see everything. I was just asking what the circumstances of purchase were.
I go by the same name on other forums- mytractorforum, DTR, TDIclub, Weldtalk.

 

[mattbatson]

Don't take me wrong- I certainly hope that it can be repaired (and hold up), and I know that you can't see everything. I was just asking what the circumstances of purchase were.
I go by the same name on other forums- mytractorforum, DTR, TDIclub, Weldtalk.

yeah, I had never purchased a tractor before, and I did study and research to see what I should look for when purchasing a tractor...and it was very similar to when buying a used car/truck.

I bought the tractor sight unseen, and knew it was a risk, but figured no matter what happened I was saving so much money cause it was such a deal, that I went ahead with the deal.
plus, I talked with the owner brandon many times and thought he was a stand up guy.

As it turns out, I still think he is a standup guy as he has offered to send me 500 dollars for my troubles...which he certainly didnt have to do.
Plus, I can easily see how this problem never got discovered by him. It wasnt evident to me for the first few weeks of ownership until I started moving some bush with the FEL.
The torque of loading the FEL put enough stress on the broken/failed attachment between the engine and gear case and caused the engine to die.

now the starter wont turn over the engine, and I think it is because everything is no longer inline and the flywheel or something is binded/jammed.

I think I may be able to get it fabbed up, and if I do, I will be sure to post pics of the fabrication.

If it turns out I have to buy a new gear case, I will look into either a donor from a salvage...(dont know if there are used tractor parts companies out there)...Geez, if there arent, that might be a great business venture eh?

buy wrecked tractors, strip them down, and sell the parts online.
Although, maybe there arent that many wrecked tractors out there like there are wrecked cars/trucks.

ah, I went off on a tangent...

If I have to buy a new one, I will do it. I'll wait a few months, save my pennies, and buy a new one. I really do plan to restore this tractor into excellent condition, and keep it as almost a heirloom item that will get passed down to my 2.5yr old

And while I'm in there, I may replace some wear items and in the process I'll get to know my tractor REALLY well

 

[mattbatson]

this is where it died, in my side yard...

so, started removing some stuff that is going to have to come off anyways...
got the wire loom disconnected from the dash and everything labeled for easier reassembly.

next will be dropping the FEL and pushing/towing it to my driveway.

 

[mattbatson]

disconnecting the FEL...

then this little bolt...

and it all comes off after the two quick disconnects for the hyd's

Found I have power steering also...

also, I keep looking at this contraption, wondering what it is?

nother pic...

 

[mattbatson]

http://youtu.be/TSa1VpDOg9M

i happened onto a "for sale" youtube video of my very own tractor.


I was trying to keep my 2.5 yr old entertained for a couple of minutes, and he loves anything with tractors or big trucks in it...so I pulled up youtube and typed in kubota tractor.

the very first video I clicked on was from a Mcgrew equipment corp. of a b1750 for sale.

So, I'm looking at the guy work the tractor through it's motions to show everyone how well the tractor worked , when I noticed it had a bushhog FEL just like mine.
Then I noticed the tires were the same, and it had the same little golf balls installed on the Hyd levers for the FEL, and the bucket was identical with the same bends and hooks, and the taillights on the left was loose and turned around and the reflector under it was missing the plastic cover...etc.

then I looked up Mcgrew equipment, and sure enough they are in Seven Valleys, PA which is where the dealer I bought it from purchased it.

What are the odds eh?

And I'm watching the video and saying to myself "Damn, that tractor looks like it runs GREAT!"

I really hope my posts on here helps another newbie like myself when they are looking to buy their own new "old" tractor....

Lesson learned is that there is always the possibility of something else lurking underneath the surface...something that may be very difficult to diagnose from a quick 15 min evaluation in the dealers parking lot.

 

[hodge]

Pay close attention to the video at 7 seconds- when the loader tops out, you can see the tractor move in the middle. Watch the hood stand in front of his knees. You can definitely say that it had the current conditions when they owned it...
It also shows movement when he lifts the front of the tractor up with the loader.

 

[mattbatson]

Pay close attention to the video at 7 seconds- when the loader tops out, you can see the tractor move in the middle. Watch the hood stand in front of his knees. You can definitely say that it had the current conditions when they owned it...
It also shows movement when he lifts the front of the tractor up with the loader.

you are right!
it is really obvious when pointed out to me like that

what would cause that?

I cant see anything wrong on the frame so far? From what I'm reading, the frame is a 3 piece bolt together dealeo...so could some bolts just be loose?

Now that I think about it, that would seem to be the culprit...thoughts?

edit...this video should be made a sticky for anyone new to tractors looking for a used one. I bet most people wouldnt look for that sort of thing...and I bet it would be hard to see if sitting in the seat of the tractor....you'd have to be standing next to it while somebody else works the controls.
This kind of info/knowledge could be priceless

 

[hodge]

you are right!
it is really obvious when pointed out to me like that

what would cause that?

I cant see anything wrong on the frame so far? From what I'm reading, the frame is a 3 piece bolt together dealeo...so could some bolts just be loose?

Now that I think about it, that would seem to be the culprit...thoughts?

edit...this video should be made a sticky for anyone new to tractors looking for a used one. I bet most people wouldnt look for that sort of thing...and I bet it would be hard to see if sitting in the seat of the tractor....you'd have to be standing next to it while somebody else works the controls.
This kind of info/knowledge could be priceless

Someone could have dropped the tractor onto a hard object on the underside of the frame, like a rock or log, and broke it. Or, they could have overloaded the loader, or a mixture of both. Either way, I'd suspect that the tractor was abused- loose bolts wouldn't necessarily cause broken flanges. Have you gotten any word on whether it can be repaired?

 

[mattbatson]

Someone could have dropped the tractor onto a hard object on the underside of the frame, like a rock or log, and broke it. Or, they could have overloaded the loader, or a mixture of both. Either way, I'd suspect that the tractor was abused- loose bolts wouldn't necessarily cause broken flanges. Have you gotten any word on whether it can be repaired?

I am of the belief that anything can be repaired

Of course, I've been wrong before....

I am going to get under the tractor and take a bunch of really good pic's and post em up.
I'm also going to get a wrench on all of the frame bolts (I can see/access pretty much all of them)

but, from what I saw the last few times I've looked at the frame, there just doesnt seem to be any damage....no cracks, no big dings or dents, no sign of any kind of trauma.

I just had a thought.
I bet that the engine and tranny bolted together act as part of the structural framework, just as much as the frame itself.

and because the mating surface betwixt the engine and tranny has failed, it is putting all the responsibility onto the frame for resisting any loads. Maybe that is why it is bending so much.
Now, i agree that something serious happened to cause this damage to begin with. No arguement there.

I think i can fix this. I think, from what I'm seeing, that with a new gear case...or repaired one...that everything will be okay.
Assuming the frame is not bent

 

[mattbatson]

this is the gear case that worthington is offering to me for 675 bucks

that is just the cover...no clutch or anything else


Geez, if i were to extrapolate out and consider what i could part out my tractor for...i bet i could make 10 grand

 

[mattbatson]

finally got it moved into the garage

have it on wheel dolly's for now, makes it easier to move around when needed.

almost have the dash off...

it is coming along

 

[abc123xyz]

yeah, I had never purchased a tractor before, and I did study and research to see what I should look for when purchasing a tractor...and it was very similar to when buying a used car/truck.

I bought the tractor sight unseen, and knew it was a risk, but figured no matter what happened I was saving so much money cause it was such a deal, that I went ahead with the deal.
plus, I talked with the owner brandon many times and thought he was a stand up guy.

As it turns out, I still think he is a standup guy as he has offered to send me 500 dollars for my troubles...which he certainly didnt have to do.
Plus, I can easily see how this problem never got discovered by him. It wasnt evident to me for the first few weeks of ownership until I started moving some bush with the FEL.
The torque of loading the FEL put enough stress on the broken/failed attachment between the engine and gear case and caused the engine to die.

now the starter wont turn over the engine, and I think it is because everything is no longer inline and the flywheel or something is binded/jammed.

I think I may be able to get it fabbed up, and if I do, I will be sure to post pics of the fabrication.

If it turns out I have to buy a new gear case, I will look into either a donor from a salvage...(dont know if there are used tractor parts companies out there)...Geez, if there arent, that might be a great business venture eh?

buy wrecked tractors, strip them down, and sell the parts online.
Although, maybe there arent that many wrecked tractors out there like there are wrecked cars/trucks.

ah, I went off on a tangent...

If I have to buy a new one, I will do it. I'll wait a few months, save my pennies, and buy a new one. I really do plan to restore this tractor into excellent condition, and keep it as almost a heirloom item that will get passed down to my 2.5yr old

And while I'm in there, I may replace some wear items and in the process I'll get to know my tractor REALLY well

nice reply...keep on sharing..mhada