I have a 12v water pump from a jeep build that I did (or undid). Since the B6000 tractor does not have a mechanical water pump and prone to overheating I was contempalting adding it to the tractor.
Adding 12v water pump to B6000
- Thread starter Dad03
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cmorningstar01
Active member
Equipment
B7500HST LA302 FEL 5'Finish Mower B5100E 46" Snow Plow 22 ton splitter
Is your system the percolation/siphon system where there is no waterpump and no bottom radiator hose, If so then how will the water pump work if it is constantly pushing the water in one direction.
edited 9/20/11
I believe I made a mistake in the thinking that some of these percolations systems only have an upper radiator hose, After a little research and seeing that they indeed do have an upper and lower radiator hose then yes I would think that adding a circulating pump may indeed benefit these engines with overheating problems
edited 9/20/11
I believe I made a mistake in the thinking that some of these percolations systems only have an upper radiator hose, After a little research and seeing that they indeed do have an upper and lower radiator hose then yes I would think that adding a circulating pump may indeed benefit these engines with overheating problems
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i also have a b7100 with no water pump but it has a upper and lower radiator hose if you are able to make yours work i would like to know good luck
I have two concerns over adding an electric pump to a convection system.
First is the electrical draw of the pump, would it lead to insufficient charging of the battery?
Second, the way a pump system works is; the pump is circulating the water within the block while the thermostat is closed, when then thermostat opens part of the circulation then goes through the radiator. The worry is that if you circulate just the radiator is that it won't really cool as you would think. The thermostat modulates the circulation so the water lingers in the radiator long enough to cool. I've seen too many engines that overheat because someone pulled out the thermostat when it fails. Now the water just rushes around, never picking up heat in the block, never cooling in the radiator; then it comes where the engine is nearing red hot and it just goes WOOSH. Think of passing your finger through a flame slowly, then quickly; when is the heat transferred to your finger? The same happens if the water flows too guickly through the radiator, less heat is transferred. Speeding up the air does help because it is the cooling media, speeding up the water doesn't.
Best cure is to make sure radiator is working to its' maximum. Get the radiator rodded out, flush the block with chemical flush. Refill the radiator with distilled water and anti-freeze. The distilled water prevents mineral build up. If you can loosen the mounts, slip the radiator as close as you can to the fan.
First is the electrical draw of the pump, would it lead to insufficient charging of the battery?
Second, the way a pump system works is; the pump is circulating the water within the block while the thermostat is closed, when then thermostat opens part of the circulation then goes through the radiator. The worry is that if you circulate just the radiator is that it won't really cool as you would think. The thermostat modulates the circulation so the water lingers in the radiator long enough to cool. I've seen too many engines that overheat because someone pulled out the thermostat when it fails. Now the water just rushes around, never picking up heat in the block, never cooling in the radiator; then it comes where the engine is nearing red hot and it just goes WOOSH. Think of passing your finger through a flame slowly, then quickly; when is the heat transferred to your finger? The same happens if the water flows too guickly through the radiator, less heat is transferred. Speeding up the air does help because it is the cooling media, speeding up the water doesn't.
Best cure is to make sure radiator is working to its' maximum. Get the radiator rodded out, flush the block with chemical flush. Refill the radiator with distilled water and anti-freeze. The distilled water prevents mineral build up. If you can loosen the mounts, slip the radiator as close as you can to the fan.
I agree with this.
The B6000 doesn't have a thermostat, so there won't be any conflict with the electric pump.
The electrical draw may be a problem, depending on the power requirements.
However, too much flow by itself cannot make the engine run too hot. There are other reasons that may result in a cooling system boiling over after making changes, but it's not too much flow. While Smokey Yunick did some research into this sort of thing, and concluded that it was excess flow causing boil overs, the article here explains that it's more of a component conflict, not an issue of too much flow in and of itself.
Some of Yunick's other work looked at water inlet and outlet temperatures and helped lead him to the same conclusion, but even Yunick, genius that he was, can't overcome the laws of thermodynamics. Keeping the thermostat in the block helps promote turbulent flow of the coolant. When the flow is turbulent, it swirls around and warms the fluid evenly.
Laminar flow tends to create a layer of very hot coolant, against the engine, and a layer of relatively cold coolant in the rest of the system. The useful volume does not get used, then, and the hot layer can boil. When it boils, obviously no cooling is being done, and the engine can overheat in spite of the coolant that isn't really warm yet.
The radiator will work more efficiently the hotter it is, and keeping high volumes of coolant flowing through will lead to more stable conditions for all the components. That is, it's better to have engine inlet temperatures at 175 degrees, say, and outlet temperatures at 190 degrees with lots of flow than it is to have inlet temperatures of 100 degrees and outlet temperatures of 180 degrees, even though the second example is "running cooler."
Kubota designed the thermo-siphon style system on the B6000 to reliably cool the tractor at its rated output. Like Birddogger advised, service your stock cooling system back to factory specifications. Pull the radiator and get it boiled and rodded out. Then clean the outside thoroughly, straightening any bent fins. While it's out, flush and thoroughly clean the engine block's coolant passages.
Service the fan belt, make sure the radiator shroud fits snugly, and clean out the grill screen. Make sure the fan itself is undamaged and intact.
Fill the radiator with a 25% antifreeze, 75% distilled water mix, supplemented with Water Wetter or whatever surfactant you prefer. That should make your machine ready for another 35 years of service!
I don't see any reason to "fix" something that will work properly if brought back to specifications. It's designed to work without a pump, and has, for a long time. Moving more coolant is good, as established above, but the problem with overheating in this case is insufficient cooling in the radiator itself. Either the coolant passages are clogged, the air passages are occluded, or some combination of both. Fix the issue there, and everything is back to normal.
Be sure the radiator is clean. I just ran a water hose over mine and the out put was very dirty. G
If your tractor is overheating, make sure the radiator is clean, and free of gunk on the fins. Especially make sure someone didnt spray paint it (to make it 'look good' ) and seal in crud into the fins and openings.
The thermosyphon system works on the simple principle "hot water rises, cold water sinks" Thus your cooling system needs to have the UPPER hose immersed in fluid for the system to work.
FILL up the radiator. and keep the radiator clean.
The thermosyphon system works on the simple principle "hot water rises, cold water sinks" Thus your cooling system needs to have the UPPER hose immersed in fluid for the system to work.
FILL up the radiator. and keep the radiator clean.
Not overheating just my obsession to build a better mouse trap. I keep it flushed and full and no problems. I added a temp guage just incase
I understand the impulse, but if you're interested in it being functional, and it is, I don't see any reason to mess with it. The B6000s are tough little machines. They are fairly low-tech, but they sure are reliable and simple to maintain.
aquaforce
New member
Equipment
L245DT FEL, JD450 Track loader, 5' scrape blade&mower, 5x10 trailer, Dump truck
I thought of the same thing on mine when I found a cracked head. Since adding a temp guage and running the tractor I have not observed any temps that would concern me. The pressure builds up in the radiator and the fan dissipates the heat out and I have never seen over 180°. Without working, just driving around it only gets up to 150°.
A pump is in the back of my mind but so far I see no need with everything working well.
A pump is in the back of my mind but so far I see no need with everything working well.
Kubota Newbie
Active member
Equipment
M4500, New Idea Cut-Ditioner, JD 14T Baler, IH "Plow Chief" plows, Oliver Rake
If you add a pump, why not run it off of a thermostatic switch/relay like the electric fans on newer vehicles. That alleviates the issue with a constant voltage draw and overcirculating the water. Water will still pass through most electric water pumps when off, so if you do not create any air-lock situations because of the install location the siphon system should still function and the pump only turn on when additional cooling is needed and the thermostat is already open. RC
It's an elegant idea, I just don't think it would work as you think. The B6000 doesn't have a thermostat to open, and the water is only moved by the circulation of convection currents. There can't be much suction to draw through. The machine is designed to work and cool itself without a water pump. If a pump is added, I think it would be wise to have it on all the time, just like a driven pump would be.
JosephGozo
Member
Equipment
Kubota B7001 + an ever growing list of attachments (restored / homemade) :(
Hello,
this may be late to unearth this.
i have a grey b7001. i used it regularly for tillage in the past years in orchards and vine yards for other farmers... Jobs were demanding and at times lasted an hour or more at a time. once i noticed that it stalled a couple of times when left to run at idle. I wasn't aware of the whistle then and so i never knew if it was overheating. but i felt that it stalled due to it being too hot.
Then i started thinkering about fitting a small pump. i also installed a coolant gauge and seemed to run at a stable temp of 85 to 90 degree Celcuis. here summers are quite hot. i also use it for baling with a CAEB baler. summers here reach temps around 30 to 40. i change oil every 100 working hours with a new oil filter and also flush system yearly. Of course Rad is cleared every day when baling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0pRTG0Cflg the pump came with a small pulley but i added a very wide pulley to reduce its RPM and flow.
The only issue i have is that the aluminuim housing that holds the dynamo corroded badly and started leaking fluid. I am not sure if this is related to poor quality coolant or the increased flow.
the pump in the video wore out the shaft so had to replace it with an automotive unit and seems to struggle somehow. i undid the housing and it looks corroded again.
I am also looking into the idea of installing an electric pump to maintain the stock look. I was thinking of running a relayed switch to turn it on when it reaches a certain temps.
Joseph
this may be late to unearth this.
i have a grey b7001. i used it regularly for tillage in the past years in orchards and vine yards for other farmers... Jobs were demanding and at times lasted an hour or more at a time. once i noticed that it stalled a couple of times when left to run at idle. I wasn't aware of the whistle then and so i never knew if it was overheating. but i felt that it stalled due to it being too hot.
Then i started thinkering about fitting a small pump. i also installed a coolant gauge and seemed to run at a stable temp of 85 to 90 degree Celcuis. here summers are quite hot. i also use it for baling with a CAEB baler. summers here reach temps around 30 to 40. i change oil every 100 working hours with a new oil filter and also flush system yearly. Of course Rad is cleared every day when baling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0pRTG0Cflg the pump came with a small pulley but i added a very wide pulley to reduce its RPM and flow.
The only issue i have is that the aluminuim housing that holds the dynamo corroded badly and started leaking fluid. I am not sure if this is related to poor quality coolant or the increased flow.
the pump in the video wore out the shaft so had to replace it with an automotive unit and seems to struggle somehow. i undid the housing and it looks corroded again.
I am also looking into the idea of installing an electric pump to maintain the stock look. I was thinking of running a relayed switch to turn it on when it reaches a certain temps.
Joseph
One of these Bosch circulation pumps in a bypass configuration could be very helpful.
Audi uses them as "after coolers" to circulate coolant to the turbochargers after the engine is shut down. I used one to increase the cabin heater performance in a "cold" car.
Tee into the lower radiator hose with 1/2 inch hose, and discharge into the back of the head to flow across to the upper hose would be effective. A thermo switch to control on/off based on head temperature would be the cat's meow. Use a relay!
Audi uses them as "after coolers" to circulate coolant to the turbochargers after the engine is shut down. I used one to increase the cabin heater performance in a "cold" car.
Tee into the lower radiator hose with 1/2 inch hose, and discharge into the back of the head to flow across to the upper hose would be effective. A thermo switch to control on/off based on head temperature would be the cat's meow. Use a relay!
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