50 Hour Service

[Paluch1]

Hey guys, was searching through posts about the first 50 hour service on my BX 1880 but could not find much. At first I was thinking of taking it in to the dealer but reading a couple of posts it seems pretty straight forward and was wondering the best place to get filters and fluids and if I should stick with OEM? Was also looking for any good guides or videos on what should be changed other than the items in the owners manual and does everyone change the hydraulic fluid and clean the screen n change the filter too?

Thanks


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[mickeyd]

I went with OEM filters and fluids to keep the warranty good.

And yes, it easy to perform all routine service. I always follow the manual as for what and when to do service.

I would recommend that you get a Work Shop Manual (WSM) fpr your tractor as it gives in-depth "How To's" on all service.

 

[Muzzy]

Working on your own machine gives you a good sense of ownership and accomplishment. Fluid and Filter change is an easy service. I prefer OEM kit, others prefer aftermarket. Check the Tube, there should online maintenance for your tractor or similar. Best, follow the Owners Manual. As already recommend, get a copy of the WSM.

 

[Paluch1]

I went with OEM filters and fluids to keep the warranty good.



And yes, it easy to perform all routine service. I always follow the manual as for what and when to do service.



I would recommend that you get a Work Shop Manual (WSM) fpr your tractor as it gives in-depth "How To's" on all service.

Can it void the warranty if I do the service myself ?


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[dalola]

I would suggest following the maintenance chart in your manual, and using OEM parts & fluids. Anyone with basic mechanical skills can easily maintain a BX. Doing it yourself (properly & timely) does not void the warranty, but keep receipts & log your work.

 

[Freeheeler]

I had a leak and had to replace most of my hydraulic fluid. I decided to upgrade to the full synthetic SUDT2. I didn't see any performance benefits, but everything is much quieter. The HST loud 'whine' is half as loud now. For me it was worth the few extra $.

 

[troverman]

Paluch1, here is a little info from my own experience.

If you follow the maintenance schedule, and use approved fluids and parts, your warranty cannot be voided assuming everything was done properly. I perform all normal, scheduled maintenance on my brand new diesel pickup myself in addition to my tractors. Make sure you keep the receipts and a log of the work you do - this is key if you ever have to make a warranty claim that could be affected by the maintenance you performed.

You don't have to use OEM parts and fluids, but in my experience they are usually the best thing for your machine and the cost is very reasonable and not much different than the aftermarket.

The 50 hour service is pretty much standard across the board for all Kubota tractors. It requires the engine oil and filter to be changed, and the HST filter to be changed if you have an HST transmission. Kubota seems to no longer require the hydraulic side filter to be changed at 50 hours like they did in the past.

You will save money and time if you do the work yourself, and get to know your machine better. Additionally, the work will be done "right." At the dealer, it might or might not be done correctly.

Some people say the filters are hard to get off, but I don't find that to be the case. I just did my MX 50 hour service last fall and none of the filters came off particularly hard. I also didn't even get to the service until 62 hours or so, the dealer said that was fine.

 

[GeoHorn]

Aftermarket filters on equipment under warranty?
Penny-wise and pound-foolish. IMO.

Cut open the filters and see what's in there. Anything suspicious is not only good for the dealer to see ...but also proof you did the work. Take pictures. Include the hour meter in the pics.

 

[Paluch1]

What's the best place to get a copy of WSM without overpaying ?


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[troverman]

Aftermarket filters on equipment under warranty?
Penny-wise and pound-foolish. IMO.

Cut open the filters and see what's in there. Anything suspicious is not only good for the dealer to see ...but also proof you did the work. Take pictures. Include the hour meter in the pics.

While I agree you're better off with OEM filters, there are some very good aftermarkets and your warranty cannot be voided unless the manufacturer can *prove* the aftermarket filter (or any aftermarket part) caused the damage. (See magnuson moss warranty act)

Do the dealers cut open your filters when they do a change? Definitely not. It's fine to do yourself as an extra measure of protection however.

I think these Kubota diesels are pretty robust and quite tolerant of neglecting maintenance, not that I'm advocating for that. Kubota makes the best small diesels in the world.

 

[GeoHorn]

While I agree you're better off with OEM filters, there are some very good aftermarkets and your warranty cannot be voided unless the manufacturer can *prove* the aftermarket filter (or any aftermarket part) caused the damage. (See magnuson moss warranty act)

Do the dealers cut open your filters when they do a change? Definitely not. It's fine to do yourself as an extra measure of protection however.

I think these Kubota diesels are pretty robust and quite tolerant of neglecting maintenance, not that I'm advocating for that. Kubota makes the best small diesels in the world.

Back in the early '70's I was a rookie small-town cop. My senior partner, after watching me meticulously collect evidence for a case, very nonchalantly pointed out to me that a good defense lawyer can pick apart many cases despite the best efforts of evidence-collection. But he also had a favorite saying: "You might beat the rap... but you won't beat the ride." In other words, we choose our battles. Would you rather argue a warranty-claim-with your dealer?... or would you rather him argue with the factory rep. in your favor FOR you because you were his regular small-parts and filter customer?
Kubota filters are typically < $5 more than the cheapo's out there and better filters at that. See the messicks video. You can hire a lawyer to argue Magnuson-Moss in court if you want to "beat the rap"... or you can treat your machine to better filters and fluids and let the dealer be your advocate if you end up with a problem and avoid "the ride".

(And I simply love it when someone brags all about how great their Kubota is... better than the competition.... but will not appreciate how Kubota filters/fluids are also better than the aftermarket and will cheapskate the items that are the "heart and blood" of the machine.... )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMrI791m-pU

 

[troverman]

Back in the early '70's I was a rookie small-town cop. My senior partner, after watching me meticulously collect evidence for a case, very nonchalantly pointed out to me that a good defense lawyer can pick apart many cases despite the best efforts of evidence-collection. But he also had a favorite saying: "You might beat the rap... but you won't beat the ride." In other words, we choose our battles. Would you rather argue a warranty-claim-with your dealer?... or would you rather him argue with the factory rep. in your favor FOR you because you were his regular small-parts and filter customer?
Kubota filters are typically < $5 more than the cheapo's out there and better filters at that. See the messicks video. You can hire a lawyer to argue Magnuson-Moss in court if you want to "beat the rap"... or you can treat your machine to better filters and fluids and let the dealer be your advocate if you end up with a problem and avoid "the ride".

(And I simply love it when someone brags all about how great their Kubota is... better than the competition.... but will not appreciate how Kubota filters/fluids are also better than the aftermarket and will cheapskate the items that are the "heart and blood" of the machine.... )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMrI791m-pU

First of all, I'm not advocating for the "cheap" aftermarket filters and fluids. I said there were some very good ones. Some filters cost more than the Kubota OEM products. And obviously, we know that Kubota themselves does not manufacture filters and fluids...they utilize a respected name to make these products to their specs. The same name likely makes a nearly identical aftermarket version.

I don't always use Kubota branded oil - there are many other brands that are likely equal or better, so long as the API specs are met. This is more important on a tractor equipped with a DPF, like my MX4800, since low ash is important. However, I always use Kubota filters.

 

[GeoHorn]

...we know that Kubota themselves does not manufacture filters and fluids...they utilize a respected name to make these products to their specs.

Exactly. To KUBOTA specs. Not to WalMart or even worse, Fram.

The same name likely makes a nearly identical aftermarket version....

Yes, for an aftermarket reseller who needs a profit margin. And the mfr'r of those aftermarket filters will make only a few models of media-capsules...which can be fitted into any-size can to LOOK impressive like the OEM. A good example is that NAPA GOLD filter shown in the Messick's video. Honestly, did ANYONE expect that filter-can to contain such a small media-capsule? That's the same capsule which was stuffed into their cheaper Silver cans also. The difference in such shell-games is usually in the back-flow preventer... the silver napa likely is nitrile and the gold napa is likely silicone rubber.... slightly better...but BOTH napa filters have undersized media compared to the Kubota OEM product.

One can argue this ad nauseum but will still be wrong in Kubota's opinion....and that's the opinion that counts first in a questionable warranty issue.
It's your tractor. You get to do what you want with it. No intent to flame, just trying to be accurate.

Don't get me wrong, I still own a Jeep with over 330K miles on it using WalMart SuperTEch oil and filters. But I didn't do that until it was mine-all-mine and out of warranty. And when at 56K miles the engine had a warranty issue... the Chrysler tech immediately agreed it was the Mopar filter gasket/adapter that caused the problem.. What if that'd been a Fram or SuperTech?

 

[troverman]

Exactly. To KUBOTA specs. Not to WalMart or even worse, Fram.

Yes, for an aftermarket reseller who needs a profit margin. And the mfr'r of those aftermarket filters will make only a few models of media-capsules...which can be fitted into any-size can to LOOK impressive like the OEM. A good example is that NAPA GOLD filter shown in the Messick's video. Honestly, did ANYONE expect that filter-can to contain such a small media-capsule? That's the same capsule which was stuffed into their cheaper Silver cans also. The difference in such shell-games is usually in the back-flow preventer... the silver napa likely is nitrile and the gold napa is likely silicone rubber.... slightly better...but BOTH napa filters have undersized media compared to the Kubota OEM product.

One can argue this ad nauseum but will still be wrong in Kubota's opinion....and that's the opinion that counts first in a questionable warranty issue.
It's your tractor. You get to do what you want with it. No intent to flame, just trying to be accurate.

Don't get me wrong, I still own a Jeep with over 330K miles on it using WalMart SuperTEch oil and filters. But I didn't do that until it was mine-all-mine and out of warranty. And when at 56K miles the engine had a warranty issue... the Chrysler tech immediately agreed it was the Mopar filter gasket/adapter that caused the problem.. What if that'd been a Fram or SuperTech?

A lot of people get tied up into the minutiae when it comes to filters and fluids...but it isn't rocket science. Just because filter A has more filtration media than filter B doesn't mean that filter B won't do a perfectly adequate job filtering. The OEM oil filter on my GMC 3500 dump truck is the same size as the one on my Harley Davidson. Yet the dump truck is 10 years old with 127k miles on it and runs great.

My dad ran Fram filters on all of our vehicles growing up. None of them ever had an engine failure.

Like I said - I run the OEM because it is reasonably priced and easy to obtain.

 

[GeoHorn]

...
My dad ran Fram filters on all of our vehicles growing up. None of them ever had an engine failure.

Like I said - I run the OEM because it is reasonably priced and easy to obtain.

PLease don't misunderstand my reason for this reply. I am only participating in what I am viewing as an on-going conversation amongst friends.

Don't know your age.. but I'm celebrating my 71st this week. Back when my Dad (born in 1920) was caring for our equipment Fram was one of the best names in the game. Back then, spin on filters were not common, but cartridge types were and Fram was one of the best known and most respected. Back then when someone changed their filter.... they SAW THE ELEMENT because it was a cartridge. Filter mfr's could not hide beneath a metal can where all the important components can be hidden from view.

In most things, we get what we pay for. Cheap filters are... well,... cheap.
Fram has one of the WORST reputations among knowledgeable automotive people these days.

The SuperTech (WalMart) filters I use in older equipment is because those mfr's no longer support or care for their product. The filters they market are not often available as OEM parts. So being relegated to aftermarket filters, I evaluate which of the filters are the best product for the price (and I rely upon evaluators on youtube who cut them open and reveal the components, or I consult specialists in the particular vehicle of concern and follow their advice/reviews.) The SuperTech filters are made by Purolator and are identical to their ordinary product found in parts stores. Reviewers have demonstrated that in several videos and auto laboratories have confirmed the quality is the same, and Purolator has a "good" reputation in the marketplace.

An example of advertising hype is KN filters. (I realize this comment likely causes anger among KN admirers. It's been my experience that folks who spend big money on aftermarket modifications ...and that's what KN usually is.... those folks are very reluctant to admit later they were fools and have wasted their money. Instead they spout all kinds of praise of the product even tho' no scientific basis exists for their claims. Sorry if this offends those guys.) Anyway... That company advertises better performance, more horsepower, less fuel consumption, etc etc. and the average joe buys into that hype without considering that any addt'l horsepower has to be the result of higher RPM (requires more fuel and makes more heat because the higher RPM*** consisted of more compression/ignition/power strokes/etc) ...so any claims of less fuel consumption is B.S. You don't get something for nothing.
***OR...their claim sometimes insinuates that the engine "breathes" better. If that is true, then the engine enjoys higher manifold pressure because the filter is less restrictive. Less restrictive means the filter isn't catching all the dirt the OEM filter caught. And it also means that if the engine breathes easier, it's sucking in more air...which requires more fuel in order to achieve the correct air/fuel ratio. Now you have an engine subjected to more dirt burning more fuel, running higher temperatures (or working the cooling system more to achieve the same temperature.) The only way that would not occur would be if the engine were governed ...and if that were the case then the ability to run higher RPM is removed by the governor so all the victim did was waste his money on an advertising gimmick.

The designers/mfr's of engines know their product, know it's requirements, specify those things so their designated suppliers will meet those needs. Yes, a new aftermarket filter might meet the minimum standards specified when it's installed, but so many times oil change periods are exceeded, operating conditions are worse than expected, etc etc. and the aftermarket item may no longer be up to the task. It's a crap shoot if the parts are bought with economy the prime consideration.

Nope. I run factory recommended stuff during warranty. Then I switch to what I believe equivalent products ...IF... they are available and meet the operating specs of parts that are still available.

But that's just the way I operate. Each situation/machine/owner is different so there's no "control group", but it's not difficult to understand theres no "free ride". And advertising doesn't equate to truth when it comes to parts quality. In my experience.

 

[troverman]

GeoHorn -

First, I'm not offended by your insightful comments. I'm somewhere around half your age, but I have been working on vehicles and machines since I was 8 or 9 years old. My dad used to do all the basic vehicle maintenance chores, be it oil changes, brake replacement, installing a new water pump or engine starter, etc etc. So I learned. We had a few Haynes or Chilton manuals around for various vehicles. I'd read them through cover to cover. I'm fascinated by engines and vehicles. I perform all work I can possibly perform. I consider myself to be an "expert" on a couple of vehicles, which are oddly very different (Range Rover Classic sold in this country from 1988-1995, and Ford Super Duty trucks equipped with the 6.7L Powerstroke diesel [2011-current]). I purchase the service or workshop manuals to every vehicle or machine I own, that I can, and read it.

I agree with much of what you say. My argument lies in "better" vs "adequate." I agree with you on the K&N products. I have run a coupe of K&N air filters, never an oil filter. I agree that virtually all modern engines do not benefit from the higher flow of a K&N filter because their engine management software is not tuned to take advantage. K&N air filters are 'higher quality' and the higher flow might allow more dirt or debris in other than the fact that these filters are oiled which helps trap more dirt and dust. These filters can be cleaned, re-oiled, and re-used. They likely last longer than a dry filter. The downside is that the oil in the filter pleats can get into the airstream and coat the heating wire in the air mass sensor and damage or destroy it.

But getting back to better vs adequate - you can take apart a Fram and say there are less filter pleats, or that the overall area is less, or that there is no anti-drainback valve, etc. However, where is the empirical data showing engines are not lasting as long or failing when running Fram? Frankly, I appreciate the "Extra-Grip" coating Fram adds that the others don't. I guess if you run extremely long oil change intervals, if the Fram has less filter media it might ultimately not filter as well. But I suspect for the most part, these filters are 'adequate' if not ultimately the best. And like I said, I don't use them.

Anyway, the sun is shining and I'll be getting on a tractor later, so all is well!

 

[GeoHorn]

Personal preference perhaps, but I actually DON"T like the "extra grip" coating Fram puts on their filters because, 1- I don't need extra grip, I'm capable of tightening the filter to the spec just fine, and 2- I imagine it retains heat rather than allowing air-circulation/radiation to dissipate the temperature of the oil within.
I don't recall exactly but I believe it was "bob is the oil guy" whose website documented Fram filter failures which sent media and junk thru enough engines that suits came out of it due to engine damage. I'll try to relocate that article for a link.
When I bought my used M4700 it came with a Fram the previous owner had installed during an oil-change only shortly before the sale (likely to impress a buyer with clean oil on a dipstick). I got it home and off the trailer and immediately removed it and installed a genuine Kubota which cost only $4 more than the WalMart price of the Fram.

Edit: I did find one of the articles which, while it did not condemn Fram, it did show convincing evidence of filter quality differences amongst various brands AND it shows who REALLY MAKES THEM!
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/index.html

This link comments on quality as well, and is one of those that led me to use SuperTech with the comment "Comparable to OEM" (although reading thru the previous link I am convinced that Baldwin/Hastings/Dana/Wix make some of the very best available...BUT...BEWARE that because Wix might make a few NAPA filters...they are not the ONLY source NAPA uses for filters. The result is that aftermarket filter quality can only be truly assessed by cutting open the filter and LOOKING AT IT. This is what I often do anyway because that's what is always done with aircraft filters and as an aircraft owner I have the tools to do that, remove the media, un-pleat it, wash it out with mineral spirits to remove captured material and evaluate what it is. Carbon is OK. Some small metal is OK. But NOT ferrous material. How to tell the difference? Hit a black spec placed on an anvil with a hammer. If it shatters...it's carbon. If it flattens/spreads...it's metal. If it can be picked up with magnet...it's ferrous. If it's copper or bronze... BAD NEWS it is likely bearing material. Trends are especially important. A random bit is not much problem, but if you're regularly doing this...and the trend is INCREASING or is SUDDENLY LARGE AMOUNTS... beware.)
http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Filters.html#OilFilters

A Giggle-search using "fram oil filter failure" will give a lot of info, much of it anecdotal, but some links are worthwhile, IMO.

 

[troverman]

Interesting link. The page is old, however, and seems to only deal with filters as new as 2008. A lot likely has changed since then. It seems one of the "Tough Guard" Fram filters was liked by the author, since it had the silicone drainback valve, a sturdy spring, and enough surface area and pleats for good filtering and flow. It did have glued cardboard ends, however.

If I don't buy OEM filters, my preferred aftermarket is WIX.

 

[djzander]

I bought Kubota filters thru Messicks, Bought Kubota Oil from Kubota dealer.
Way too big a investment for me to try and skimp on filters.
It just isn't worth it to me.

 

[Kevin1]

I posted this after I did my 50hr on my 2380.

http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36333