Steering rack in front of axle

[PA452]

I currently have a BX23 and am looking at upgrading most likely to a B2650. I just can't figure out why Kubota puts the steering rack on the front side of the front axle on all these tractors.

I don't get into the brush with my BX and likely won't with my B, but if I did I just can't imagine it being good for that steering rack. I brush hog a lot of fields with a JD990 and before that a JD1050 when I was a kid. Those tractors kept sensitive steering components out of the way, just one big heavy tie rod down where things could get to it and it was behind the front axle, not in front.

I'm still getting a B series tractor anyway, like I said I don't think it'll matter that much for what I'll do with it. But has this been a problem for anyone else?

 

[Tropical Jack]

Just bought an L3301 with 250 hours, and it has a bent tie rod. So I would say yes; can definitely be an issue.

Jack

 

[PA452]

Yeah, the tie rod locations on the L series seem a little bizarre to me. They just seem like they could be better located in a safer position.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Kubota don't have a 'steering rack' It's hydrostatic power steering so the 'rack' is actually a double ended hydraulic cylinder, I'd not get concerned about bending it unless you hit a brick wall.... Tie rod ends are replaceable and not a hard job.

 

[dlundblad]

Definitely something to keep an eye on. The only thing hitting the area should be heavy brush and possibly frozen snow. Anything larger like stumps and rocks is animal abuse. Dad has had his Grand L for 15 years and I think a boot came off once and that was very recently. The boot shields help. No issues with the actual cylinder or hoses.

The JD equivalent of my steering box L2501 has theirs behind the front axle, but the tie rod runs along the bottom of the axle and is one of the lowest points on the tractor aside from the aluminum transmission.

Seems to be a no win either way.

 

[D2Cat]

An interesting thread. Wondering why the steering apparatus is in the front. Others, on other threads, complain because things are too small and too close together to work on effectively.

There is only so much room to locate parts. Put that on the back side and then try to remove an oil pan! Then there would be a new set of complaints.

 

[dlundblad]

An interesting thread. Wondering why the steering apparatus is in the front. Others, on other threads, complain because things are too small and too close together to work on effectively.

There is only so much room to locate parts. Put that on the back side and then try to remove an oil pan! Then there would be a new set of complaints.

At least it’s not a BX owner complaining about things being too small.

 

[SidecarFlip]

An interesting thread. Wondering why the steering apparatus is in the front. Others, on other threads, complain because things are too small and too close together to work on effectively.

There is only so much room to locate parts. Put that on the back side and then try to remove an oil pan! Then there would be a new set of complaints.

On both my M's the steering cylinder is out front as well. Never been an issue with me.

 

[troverman]

Kubota don't have a 'steering rack' It's hydrostatic power steering so the 'rack' is actually a double ended hydraulic cylinder, I'd not get concerned about bending it unless you hit a brick wall.... Tie rod ends are replaceable and not a hard job.

In the case of the B-series, at least my 2013 B2920, that is not the case. There is a steering shaft that comes down on the left side of the tractor, connects to a knuckle on the left bevel hub, and on the other end of the knuckle is a tie rod which runs over to the right side. My larger tractors do use hydrostatic steering with the double ended cylinder and short tie-rods as you describe.

My B2920 has 600 hours on it and the tie rod is fine. It is up as high as the axle, and you'd have to awkwardly hit something for it to ever be a problem. Other things are ahead of it.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

In the case of the B-series, at least my 2013 B2920, that is not the case.

It's still not a rack, it's a steering box.

 

[troverman]

Since I'm now in the market for a standard L series, it does appear the standard L has an odd tie rod location. The hydraulic cylinder must be located way up ahead of the axle, and the tie rods angle back to the wheel knuckles. They are mounted up high, but you could possibly hit something and bend one. As someone mentioned, they are not hard to replace...but it seems a better location is possible. For example, below is a shot of my MX setup. You can see the cylinder and tie rods are completely parallel to the axle, and mounted behind shielding. I think this is a much better design.

 

[troverman]

Since I'm now in the market for a standard L series, it does appear the standard L has an odd tie rod location. The hydraulic cylinder must be located way up ahead of the axle, and the tie rods angle back to the wheel knuckles. They are mounted up high, but you could possibly hit something and bend one. As someone mentioned, they are not hard to replace...but it seems a better location is possible.

To quote and correct myself:

Since I own an L2501 now, there is no hydraulic cylinder. This tractor uses a steering shaft with small u-joints that come into a traditional worm and roller steering box located under the front bumper. The pittman arm operates two tie rods directs with no drag link. Both the steering box and tie rods are somewhat vulnerable, although they are mounted up high and the steering box is surrounded on all sides except the bottom and rear.

 

[lugbolt]

Well look at the tractor real close.

In order to move the steering to the back side of the axle, there has to be room for it. In the case of hydrostatic power steering, it doesn't need a lot of space, BUT, it does require the cylinder to be up high enough and enough protection to keep sticks, logs, stumps, rocks, aliens, or whatever from getting into it. In order to "make room", the axle would need to move forward about 6-8" or so, which makes the tractor longer from a design standpoint. Remember the old days when they all had rear steer? Think about how long the nose of the tractor was in comparison. Takes some of the "compact" out of "compact tractor" doesn't it? Plus it makes it more "fun" (and expensive) to manufacture and to repair.

The name of the game with manufacturing is to offer a piece of equipment that is "different" than everyone elses (aka better features), for the least amount of manufacturing cost yet still be able to compete, turn a profit, and it last a long time. No manufacturer wants a tractor (or anything else) to fall apart prematurely, that's bad marketing tactics that the Chinese like to use in the name of low cost and nothing more.

So on the BX's, it's cheaper to build them with hydrostatic power steering; it works great, it's not problematic, it's mounted out front to keep the tractor's length short, which aids in better visibility, it's low maintenance and low cost to repair in most cases. The downside? Its right out in front of the axle where "nobody" wants it.

Can't please everybody.

On the BX's (and some mowers), the cylinder and hoses are placed pretty high up, so if anything gets in there to damage it/them, you're likely going to have other problems too.

 

[GeoHorn]

Like SideFlip, my M hasn't had any trouble ...but then I don't try to use it for a BullDozer like the previous owner apparently did.

When I bought it, it had crushed/dented Hyd. Filters, ...wood jammed up into various places/controls,... crushed/deformed tool-box (why Kubota put a toolbox beneath the operator-floor is beyond me anyway!)... and the front steering tie-rod boots were torn and guards bent-up.

I repaired the guards and tie-rod boots and made immediate plans to change hyd oil and filters, and pulled the tool-box and repaired it. (Found some free tools inside it also, but now keep it empty as I have a better location behind the seat.)

Anyway, Messick's (I believe it was) ... Saw a video on this subject and it was pointed out that J.D. "protected" their steering mechanisms by hiding them behind the front axle, while Kubota placed them in front of the axle in many models.
But the irony is, JD has the steering components BELOW the axle where they are commonly damaged.... while Kubota has them high and protected by structure or guards. Each mfr'r has advantages/disadvantages and clearly relies upon the operator to be sensible about how one uses the machine.

 

[troverman]

Yeah, I saw that Messick's video as well. To me, it seems the hydrostatic style power steering with a double-ended piston operating a short tie rod directly would be the most space-efficient and protected design. I posted a shot of my MX4800's setup earlier in this thread. The cylinder actually has a guard around it, welded to the front axle housing, very rugged. The tie rods are very short, and completely parallel to the axle, and very close to it. Yes, it's on the front...but mounted tight and high to the axle. The L2501 design must be cheaper to use multiple steering shafts, u-joints, and a traditional steering box. Seems like it would cost more than just a steering wheel coupler, some lines, and a cylinder. Perhaps the traditional steering box can get by with less flow than a cylinder? I dunno.