HST vs Gear drive

[SDT]

About to jump into an L2501...i know i can trust a standard trans for many years...clutch is not covered by factory warranty....HST is not new tech....will it last? advantages? disadvantages? thanks

A HST transmission is wonderfully convenient and time saving for some tasks at the expense of efficiency and cost. A gear type transmission (there are several types) is rugged, efficient and relatively inexpensive. Which is best for your purposes depend upon what you plan to do with your tractor and how much you wish to spend.

I own and have owned multiple tractors with both gear and HST transmissions. Most of the work that I do is mowing.

Currently, I use an L6060 HST with HD 6' cutter as my "first round" tractor as well as for parcels with lots of obstacles requiring many direction reversals and speed changes. After finishing the smaller, heavily obstacled parcels and opening up the larger parcels, I switch off to my M9960 with hydraulic shuttle, gear type transmission and larger mower.

The 6060 HST is the cat's meow for the way that I use it, and has reduced my time spend by about 40% in the heavily obstacled areas vis-à-vis the same work with the same mower using a previously owned tractor with gear type transmission and similar HP. The downside: The 6060 uses over twice as much fuel to do the same jobs as did the economical MF and cost three times as much.

Finally, I have on occasion, mowed identical clear parcels with both the 6060 and 6' cutter and my M9960 with 7' cutter. The 53 PTO HP 6060 HST uses much more fuel to mow the same parcels (and takes more time) than does the 90 PTO HP 9960 with hydraulic shuttle and 7' mower. To be fair, I operate the 9960 with EPTO turned on when using the 7' cutter so this is not a direct efficiency comparison. Still, the 9960 is considerably more efficient, EPTO or otherwise.

The efficiency penalty is the reason why you do not see high HP AG tractors with HST transmissions, as well as why MAN's experiment with HST railroad locomotives in the 1960s failed so spectacularly in the US.

SDT

 

[SidecarFlip]

If you’re going to get a FEL and or mower get the HST there is no noticeable difference between the two in horse power or reliability.

I disagree

There is at the PTO end. I experienced that personally. When looking at any unit, look at PTO power not engine horsepower and remember the difference between rated engine horsepower and PTO power is parasitic loss and equates to heat of operation.

 

[southernboy]

I have a 2501 HST and having previously owned only geared tractors I really like it, but the whine is definitely there. The HST will quickly spoil you, I don’t think I could ever go back to gears but I guess it all depends on the intended use of the tractor. Just be aware that the 2501DT DOES NOT have live PTO, that would be a deal breaker for me but once again I guess it depends on the intended use. I actually can’t believe that Kubota would make a modern tractor without live pto but apparently thats the case with the L2501 and 3301.


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[WFM]

As it was said in another thread on here the L series Kubota line is basically a overgrown lawn tractor not a work horse tractor the poster said and I enjoy the HST on my 18 hp craftsman smaller lawn tractor also. I'll keep my wine and drink it too.

 

[edritchey]

I disagree

There is at the PTO end. I experienced that personally. When looking at any unit, look at PTO power not engine horsepower and remember the difference between rated engine horsepower and PTO power is parasitic loss and equates to heat of operation.

This fella is talking about a L2501 unless I missed something there's less then 2hp. difference between the HST and Gear anything that Gear tractor will run on the PTO that HST will handle without any NOTICEABLE difference. LOL

 

[SidecarFlip]

2 horsepower is 2 horsepower and that 2 is converted to heat. Also known as [parasitic loss.

 

[91redfrod]

So much great advice...I'm still on the fence...I was sure I would be better off with "old reliable" tech like a simple clutch...but the easy peasy use of the HST is appealing...the 19 HP at the pto doesn't seem like enough to run much of a brush hog. I think the dealer said it's rated for a 60"....opinions? & hey everybody who has joined in thanks for giving some real world experience user kind of advice. just can't beat that shit.

 

[AuburnAlum]

So much great advice...I'm still on the fence...I was sure I would be better off with "old reliable" tech like a simple clutch...but the easy peasy use of the HST is appealing...the 19 HP at the pto doesn't seem like enough to run much of a brush hog. I think the dealer said it's rated for a 60"....opinions? & hey everybody who has joined in thanks for giving some real world experience user kind of advice. just can't beat that shit.

I have the 1860 Land Pride Rotary cutter. This is more heavy duty than the 1260. 5 foot but I am not sure 6 foot would be OK. I have read a number other sources in my research that do not recommend 6 foot brush hog.

 

[SDT]

I have the 1860 Land Pride Rotary cutter. This is more heavy duty than the 1260. 5 foot but I am not sure 6 foot would be OK. I have read a number other sources in my research that do not recommend 6 foot brush hog.

19 PTO HP is not nearly enough for a 6' rotary cutter in anything but play mowing. Even then, a 6' rotary cutter is too heavy for a 2501.

19 PTO HP is not enough for a 5' cutter in anything but ideal conditions.

A 2501 is most well suited to a 48" rotary cutter.

SDT

 

[edritchey]

Like SDT said get yourself a 4' bush hog and don't drag it over anything it's not rated to cut and your tractor will do fine.

 

[Bulldog]

I actually can’t believe that Kubota would make a modern tractor without live pto but apparently thats the case with the L2501 and 3301.


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This is a perfect example of how Kubota basically is forcing a person to buy something they don't really want to get a feature they need.

Same with a L series with a cab. Only way to get that is with HST so that means getting a M series if you want a cab tractor with a real tranny.

 

[southernboy]

So much great advice...I'm still on the fence...I was sure I would be better off with "old reliable" tech like a simple clutch...but the easy peasy use of the HST is appealing...the 19 HP at the pto doesn't seem like enough to run much of a brush hog. I think the dealer said it's rated for a 60"....opinions? & hey everybody who has joined in thanks for giving some real world experience user kind of advice. just can't beat that shit.

I run a RCR1260 on my 2501 HST with no problems. It’s the cutter my dealer recommended. I’ve mowed some thick overgrown pasture, the good thing about HST if the cutter does bog down you just ease up on the pedal and then go again, can’t do that with a gear drive especially with the non live PTO.


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[Jchonline]

If you can afford it, I see no reason not to get more HP if you are doing tasks that require HP (ie mowing, haying, snow blowing). You are just asking for trouble if you are on the edge of the capabilities of the machine. Now if there is absolutely no way you can afford the difference, then you will have to make it work.

 

[Kubota Paul]

i have used gears all my life till lately. I now have 2 HST tractors. I don't like the wine. Saying that I will never go back to gear. I go allot of snow-blowing and being able to reverse quicker has made my jobs much faster. Also I can control my ground speed better. With gears it was always to slow or to fast never just right.

 

[WFM]

i have used gears all my life till lately. I now have 2 HST tractors. I don't like the wine. Saying that I will never go back to gear. I go allot of snow-blowing and being able to reverse quicker has made my jobs much faster. Also I can control my ground speed better. With gears it was always to slow or to fast never just right.

God Bless You Paul !!!

 

[SDT]

This is a perfect example of how Kubota basically is forcing a person to buy something they don't really want to get a feature they need.

Same with a L series with a cab. Only way to get that is with HST so that means getting a M series if you want a cab tractor with a real tranny.

Actually, it is not. Rather it is an example of how Kubota makes available a model at minimum cost for folks who do not need or want such features. Those who do can opt for the more expensive models.

Those of you who understand both engineering and marketing realize the costs associated with offering features and equipment as stand alone options.

SDT

 

[SidecarFlip]

This fella is talking about a L2501 unless I missed something there's less then 2hp. difference between the HST and Gear anything that Gear tractor will run on the PTO that HST will handle without any NOTICEABLE difference. LOL

Unless my math s fuzzy, 2 horsepower subtracted from 20 is 10% parasitic loss. That isn't acceptable to me, not that I'd own a 20 horsepower tractor. I need at least 90 ponies flywheel.

 

[mjrwood]

I own a gear driven 2501. My opinion is that it can be a great choice if the user's needs fall in a specific group of scenarios. Such as, if you are not going to be doing a lot of loader work, and if most of your pto work is going to be in open areas where a lot of clutching would not be required (in those scenarios that non-live pto would probably start to really suck). That is exactly the situation I find myself in, and the gear driven 2501 has been great for me, I've loved it so far!

Now I have zero experience hands on with an hst 2501, but I've talked to some folks who have and their opinion has been that even though the hp loss is small, the 2501 being already slightly on the anemic side with pto hp didn't take that 2hp loss very well. These are guys who were doing more pto work than loader work. On the other hand, I see guys on here who have hst versions and they seem to love them.

That segment of the Kubota lineup seems to be kind of place where I could easily slip into circular logic. If I really wanted an hst (or live pto) I might consider a 3301. But one of the reasons I went with the 2501 was to dodge the emissions. If I'm going 3301 and will need regens, I figure I might as well go on up to something like a 3901 or something in the 40 range.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Flipper,
You constantly denigrate tractors in the lower hp categories. In this instance it is 20 hp that is the subject of your profound wisdom . You certainly know that about 90 percent of active member own and enjoy the compact class of Orange tractors. Your sarcasm doesn't go unnoticed, and the constant belittling is getting old. There must be a reason you avoid forums specifically geared toward large scale farming.

If you read the PM I sent you, I explained that I've owned at least 5 Kubota's in the last 25 years and all have been HST but my 2 M's. I also explained why I have what I have and what I do with them.

My very first Kubota was a B7100 HST, I think about 16 horsepower PTO so I've owned little ones, medium sized ones and now big ones.

Perfectly aware of the bulk of the units on here are lower horsepower compact units but the dynamics are the same, big or small.


Still have the Kubota shop manual for the B out in the shop. Should put it on Flea Bay sometime.

I think after 7 Kubota's I know a bit about what they can do and what they can't do. I'm always willing to learn but you don't have to constantly demean me.

On another note, I'm getting closer to surgery and that is good. I need to be clear of this cancer thing and mended before next growing season. I have customers that are depending on me to deliver quality forge for their feedlot operations..

What I'm all about. Quality forage and timely deliveries.

 

[edritchey]

Unless my math s fuzzy, 2 horsepower subtracted from 20 is 10% parasitic loss. That isn't acceptable to me, not that I'd own a 20 horsepower tractor. I need at least 90 ponies flywheel.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion and I take no offense to anything I read on the internet. I guess I just never pushed the smaller tractors beyond their limits over the years mostly because we always had larger machines here so I never had any reason to waste time trying to do something I knew I could get done faster with a bigger tractor or other machine all together.

Good luck with your surgery and I hope you have a speedy recovery.