Building a pole barn

[PW1967]

Just thought I’d ask this here since Im sure alot of memberes here have something similar to store their tractors, To make the story short a tree fell and took out my wood shed, I collected some homeowners insurance and have enough to put up a 12 x 30 loafing shed, It should be plenty for a couple years firewood supply and room for the tractor. With the Colorado winter comming on, time is not on my side, I already have my material on hand, and holes dug for post about 42” deep, I am using 4 x 6 pressure treated and have some old cinder blocks laying around I figured I would lay them in the bottom of my holes, My question is should I even mess with concrete in the holes, maybe enough just to fill up to top of cinder blocks, then compacted dirt that came out of hole the rest of way. My holes are a little large due to being dug with back hoe but I kept them as tight as possible. All the research I’ve done on concrete for back fill does not seem like it adds much bennifit. I do have good soil here, no clay, it’s acually an old river bottom with a lot of stone and sandy soil,

 

[Russell King]

You need concrete in the bottom to assist with weight bearing and lift of the structure due to wind.

The rest of the hole fill is debatable as to how beneficial it is.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Chucktin]

Another consideration, especially in Colorado, would be frost heaving.

 

[faralta]

Agree with Russell King, without concrete it could have a short life.

 

[CaveCreekRay]

Concrete will make the poles last a lot longer. Wood in moist soil has a short life. Termites and mold will weaken it.

Run the concrete slightly above grade and slope it away from the wood, carrying as much water away as possible. Caulk that gap after a season if you see any shrinkage.

Concrete is cheap insurance. I mixed up over 70 bags on a project using a masonry 4-hoop mixer run by a heavy-duty drill mixed in 5 gallon Homer buckets. I ran the drill off a generator. You can do a full 60 lb bag in a Homer bucket. Keep it wet at first and dry up the mix as you fill up the holes, stirring between mixes as you add. Take an extra bucket or two. They don't last for ever.

Sounds crazy but, you can mix a load and pour it in only a couple minutes. I did one pour with 26 bags in only an hour and a half. And, its good exercise.

If you wanna minimize the concrete used, you can get the fiber tubes from HD and put those in the holes around your posts.

 

[D2Cat]

Since you dug the holes with a backhoe, Ray"s advice will save you time and money. "If you wanna minimize the concrete used, you can get the fiber tubes from HD and put those in the holes around your posts."

 

[Newlyme]

You say that you have the holes dug already. Is there any water in them? If so, water may be an issue if you put the wood down in the hole surrounded by concrete. Concrete is porous. You may be better to take the fiber tubes and fill them full of concrete with an anchor bolt protruding in the middle to set your posts on top. Then anchor the post to the concrete. This will keep your wooden posts dry.

When I put in the foundations for my chicken coops I drilled the holes and set the tubes in place Saturday. Went out Sunday morning to start pouring the concrete and the holes were half to three quarters full of water and it had not rained. I was not happy having to empty fourteen holes before mixing my 80+ eighty pound bags of concrete mix.

P.S. Do not forget to throw in a couple pieces of rebar.

 

[SLIMSHADIE]

I had an extension put up on my pole barn from the original company that put it up. I observed they dug a 4’ hole, put a concrete disc in the bottom, cant remember if it was 2x8, 2x10. My poles have are plastic sleeved for like 5’. They just back filled the hole with dirt, no concrete.

 

[PW1967]

Thanks for the suggestions, It’s still not to late for concrete, If using pre formed 10” concrete tubes, what would be more efficient, just install a Simpson strong tie on top of colomn above grade vs. incasing post in concrete down to footer.

I already have 4x6x12 pressure treat, 8 total, but could return them for shorter post, and use the saving toward bagged concrete and just install them above grade.

 

[CaveCreekRay]

Putting a concrete pier in is the ultimate solution.

But, it will need to go down as far as the poles would have, between 5-6 feet, depending on load. Extend it 6-12" above grade for further moisture protection. I agree, drop some rebar pieces in to tie it all together.

I am not sure Simpson makes a tie big enough for a telephone pole but you can make up a strong tie with Simpson products and a 24" piece of 1" rebar the pole sits on, then the tie straps in the footer hold the pole firm on four sides with lags. (18" inches in the footing and a 4-6" pin above the footer.) You will likely have to tie the straps together and set the straps in as you pour your footing. You can always trim the bottoms of the poles squared up sightly along the bottom 12" with a chainsaw before setting.

Even on a pole barn, the foundation is important as it takes all the structural loads from both weight and wind loads. It would suck to see a nice structure blown over in a summer storm.

Take pictures and post 'em up! We'd love to watch your progress.

Ray

 

[SidecarFlip]

Another consideration, especially in Colorado, would be frost heaving.

The big one. You need to research the average frost / freeze depth in your local location and dig your post holes slightly deeper than the frost line and place a pre cast concrete pad in the bottom.

I believe 42" is not deep enough, but it could be. If the holes aren't deep enough the poles will heave up in the winter.... bad deal.

 

[CaveCreekRay]

"FROST HEAVE? I have never heard of that!! We don't have that in Arizona!!!"

These guys are right. (As I remember from my younger days in the GWN!) Doing it right is only a couple of cast pads and a little more tube and concrete, if that.)

 

[PW1967]

Putting a concrete pier in is the ultimate solution.


I am not sure Simpson makes a tie big enough for a telephone pole

Ray

No telephone poles here, just 4”x6” post siting on a 10” diameter formed concrete tube

 

[PW1967]

The big one. You need to research the average frost / freeze depth in your local location and dig your post holes slightly deeper than the frost line and place a pre cast concrete pad in the bottom.

I believe 42" is not deep enough, but it could be. If the holes aren't deep enough the poles will heave up in the winter.... bad deal.

42” is code here, and that’s all the little Kubota could reach; lol
All in all stable ground here, nothing but rock and a little dirt

 

[Benhameen]

Personally I’ve never heard of someone not pouring concrete around post that are in the ground. Even for fencing or decks. I’ve built or help build 4 barns and numerous decks and fencing. For decks and fencing we use bags of quickcrete but I would think that it would be more cost effective to have a concrete truck brought in for your situation.

24” is the frost line here and that’s the depth I’ve always dug down to for decks and fences. I believe we went 48” deep on my pole barn but it’s been almost 20 years ago so I could be wrong. Actually, I rented a gas powered post hole digger and went down and far as it would go, now that I think about it.

I helped a friend rebuild his fence, probably 100’ in length. They only used concrete on every third post, those were the only ones standing upright. All the others were leaning badly. We used quickcrete in everyone and it’s still standing straight 10 years later.

So my take would be to pour concrete around your post. It would be cheap insurance and peace of mind if it were my building.

Good luck.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

No you do not want poles set on piers, yes it works but it's much weaker and harder to set than pole in the ground.
Sonotube the posts back fill, then concrete, make sure you square it up before you backfill.

 

[Lil Foot]

"FROST HEAVE? I have never heard of that!! We don't have that in Arizona!!!"[/B

Actually, we do, but only in the high country. If I remember right, my footers on the mountain are at 42".

 

[Chucktin]

We do not have (much) frost heaving in Florida but ... Due to the dry spell we are currently in a post (area light) I am currently dealing with had an inch+ of concrete showing at the base where during the summer rains the concrete was just visible.
Ergo unless you want the poles flexing and doors needing re-adjusting (happened to us for Barn 1.0) I'd strongly advise finding out what the frost heave (depth) at your location is and I'd still use concrete in a sonotube. Your barn, your choice.