M4500 flywheel TDC timing mark

[JohnDB]

Hi all, I'm trying to see the TDC mark on the flywheel (there must be one - it's mentioned in another post http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26009&highlight=timing+S2600) but danged if I can see any mark, nor can I see any pointer to line the mark up to. I'm looking through the square port on the left side of the flywheel housing - see attached photos. I've had a close look all around the flywheel housing and engine block where it attached to the housing but can't see any other likely places that will let me see the flywheel and find the mark.

Has anyone got any hints on how to see the timing mark and pointer? Is there also one on the crank pulley?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Why are you trying to find the TDC mark?

Many of these older engines don't have it marked in a normal area or some you can't see with the engine in.

One common spot is in the hole for the starter will be the marks, you will the starter and will be able to see both marks.

 

[JohnDB]

Thanks Wolfman. I'll pull the starter and have a look for the marks later today.

There were a couple of reasons for finding the marks, triggered by reading the S2600-B WSM. The WSM refers to timing marks for setting valve lash, another another mark for checking "fuel tightness of delivery valve" and shows a port on the side of the flywheel housing for doing this. The manual also talks about setting valve lash every 800 hours, something not mentioned in the operators manuals I have. The engine (5000 hours, uncertain history) isn't running as evenly as I think it should. So I thought I'd check the valve lash first (don't really need the tdc mark for that), then look at other things like compression and leakdown, and finally injectors and injection timing. Other aspects of engine are good - no alarming exhaust smoke, coolant and oil and their caps look like they should, fuel lines tight (slight diesel weep from somewhere, but can't find it yet).

For doing the valve lash etc I was hoping to figure out a way to turn the engine over with the starter and get the pistons roughly in the right place, so was thinking of replicating the approx positions of the flywheel marks on the crank pulley so I could more easily see when they were coming up when cranking or barring the engine. This was to avoid pulling the injectors or glow plugs so I could turn the engine over.

Hope the above answer isn't too tedious

Talking about valve lash - what is a good way to rotate the crank without starter motor - without having to remove injectors or glow plugs. Is it just a matter of barring the flywheel via the port in the photo above?

Thanks for listening this far!

 

[Kubota Newbie]

Well, My WSM shows a picture checking it at the starter hole, but... There is also a round check hole on the right side of the tractor about 4 inches in front of the bell housing port (the square cover, right side). The check hole looks to be about 1 inch in diameter, has a tear-dropped shaped cover held in place by a single bolt.

 

[Kubota Newbie]

When setting valves it says to use that hole and align the "TC" mark on the flywheel in that hole.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Can you get to the front of the crank? You can use a big socket and turn the crank with the pulley nut.
On engines with the splined shaft sticking out you can simply use a pipe wrench.

 

[JohnDB]

Thanks Wolfman, Kubota Newbie... yes, the marks are visible if you remove the starter motor. There's no pointer or other mark to align them to. There is no tear-drop shaped cover on the RHS of this flywheel housing, my parts manual shows it too.

So have set the valve lash today, all were just a little less than spec, but nothing unusual.

I couldn't get a socket onto the crankshaft pulley nut, but found I could turn the crank over by putting a bar into the square hole and pushing down on the rim of the flywheel/clutch assembly.

Funny thing though, this is the first diesel I've worked on and I was expecting it to be much harder to turn over than a petrol engine (without removing plugs etc). But it was quite easy, sooo.... maybe I have compression problem...

How easy is it normally to bar over a diesel engine with the injectors and glow-plugs in place?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

How easy is it normally to bar over a diesel engine with the injectors and glow-plugs in place?

There is the key to kubota's success with these engines, they turn easy even with compression, that cuts down on the wear points.

I would check your compression just to make sure you don't have a serious wear issue, But if it starts well then I would say your fine.

Also when I hear of someone with an older engine that's not running up to par, I say get the injector tested and rebuilt.

Oregon Fuel Injection is a top notch company and they have never let me down for injection pump and injector rebuilds.

 

[JohnDB]

Yes, think I should check the compression... was on my list to do at some stage anyway.

Oregon Fuel Injection sounds the business, shame they are on the wrong continent.

BTW I found 6 marks on the flywheel:
16FT and 16TC
25FT and 25TC
34FT and 34TC
FTs were each about 7.5 teeth before TCs. Total teeth was 110.
Each set evenly spaced.

I was scratching my head over that, and then realised (DOH) these were the timing marks for cyls 1 and 6, 2 and 5, 3 and 4

Thanks for your help - I've got a few other questions in mind, but they prolly should be a new thread.

 

[JohnDB]

Thanks everyone... finally found it... obscured under the loader RH mounting plate... but right where the manual said it would be I'd looked under the plate at the clutch housing, but didn't realise the plate also obscured this vital part of the flywheel housing

 

[D2Cat]

Now John, you haven't been looking for that for 3 months! You need to check in more often and keep us informed.

 

[JohnDB]

True. I had to get the good weather and my availability lined up (I don't have all-weather facilities) and this took so long I decided to wait a couple of extra weeks till my ex-diesel mechanic brother visited. It was great fun doing it with him. We fixed the delivery valve holder leak did the spill timing as recommended in the manual... which raised some more questions ... another 2 threads to come.