Status of B3350 Regen Issue?

[micdelbo]

So I figured I would give an update on my regen issue.

I had another episode where the tractor showed a regen was occurring (regen light on) for about 30-40 minutes and then shut off.

This occurred on the 4th of March after a snow storm.

I had blown/plowed 4 driveways in the morning and after a windy day want out to clear drifts that evening around 7:15 pm.

Tractor showed regen after 5 minutes of running so I just kept working. Regen light stayed on the entire time.

Temp was around 25 and I debated about whether I should install the bra. I know it is recommended when operating the tractor at 32 or below, but I tried that a couple of times and if blowing and plowing the tractor overheated to the point of beeping at me and the gauge showed all the heat 'bars' (much prefer a gauge that actually shows temp).

I finished and the regen light was still on so I drove the tractor to the furthest driveway and cleared it of drifts.

Light still on so I drive it 1/2 mile down the road. That is when it shut off.

It sits with the regen light flashing and won't start. I have to wait around 40 minutes until it will start. Meanwhile I am sitting in the cab in a sweatshirt and it is 25 degrees out.

I video the multiple failed attempts to start it until finally it starts, after 40 minutes.

While sittting, I installed the bra figuring it couldn't get hot enough for the regen to occur. That is what the tech told me last year when he gave me the bra (I never received one when I purchased the tractor).

Even with the bra on and the temp bars up to 4 (3 are normal) the regen light stayed on while I drove home.

I sat with the tractor at full throttle for at least another 10-15 minutes and the regen light never went out. I also never saw the white smoke indicative of a regen taking place.

It was now around 8:30 so I hit the 'cancel regen' button and the regen light went out.

I called the dealer a day or so later and explained this to the service manager, their 'regen specialist' and the tech that had been out last January (2018).

They said they will stop out but they are out of ideas. The 'regen specialist' kind of wanted to make it sound like it was something I was doing/not doing correctly.

They still haven't been out (they said they are very busy and I said I don't really need it since I have my old reliable JD 4115) and I haven't driven the unit since. I will follow up with them next week since it will be 4 weeks.

I service office equipment for 32 years and I know they are going to have to look at the inputs the ecm is looking for to complete a regen. Something isn't providing a correct input and this is preventing the regen from completing.

The 'regen specialist' kind of agrees and said there are 3 things required for a regen, but seems like he doesn't know what to do next. I said they need to call in the next level of support, probably a factory rep (if that exists).

I will let them try and figure it out since I realize it is intermittent and I know those types of problems can be very difficult to solve.

I would think there would be something in the error history of the ecm when this occurs (again, I don't know if this exists).

Anyway, I will post what they find, if anything, or what the outcome is.

Mike

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[SDT]

So I figured I would give an update on my regen issue.

I had another episode where the tractor showed a regen was occurring (regen light on) for about 30-40 minutes and then shut off.

This occurred on the 4th of March after a snow storm.

I had blown/plowed 4 driveways in the morning and after a windy day want out to clear drifts that evening around 7:15 pm.

Tractor showed regen after 5 minutes of running so I just kept working. Regen light stayed on the entire time.

Temp was around 25 and I debated about whether I should install the bra. I know it is recommended when operating the tractor at 32 or below, but I tried that a couple of times and if blowing and plowing the tractor overheated to the point of beeping at me and the gauge showed all the heat 'bars' (much prefer a gauge that actually shows temp).

I finished and the regen light was still on so I drove the tractor to the furthest driveway and cleared it of drifts.

Light still on so I drive it 1/2 mile down the road. That is when it shut off.

It sits with the regen light flashing and won't start. I have to wait around 40 minutes until it will start. Meanwhile I am sitting in the cab in a sweatshirt and it is 25 degrees out.

I video the multiple failed attempts to start it until finally it starts, after 40 minutes.

While sittting, I installed the bra figuring it couldn't get hot enough for the regen to occur. That is what the tech told me last year when he gave me the bra (I never received one when I purchased the tractor).

Even with the bra on and the temp bars up to 4 (3 are normal) the regen light stayed on while I drove home.

I sat with the tractor at full throttle for at least another 10-15 minutes and the regen light never went out. I also never saw the white smoke indicative of a regen taking place.

It was now around 8:30 so I hit the 'cancel regen' button and the regen light went out.

I called the dealer a day or so later and explained this to the service manager, their 'regen specialist' and the tech that had been out last January (2018).

They said they will stop out but they are out of ideas. The 'regen specialist' kind of wanted to make it sound like it was something I was doing/not doing correctly.

They still haven't been out (they said they are very busy and I said I don't really need it since I have my old reliable JD 4115) and I haven't driven the unit since. I will follow up with them next week since it will be 4 weeks.

I service office equipment for 32 years and I know they are going to have to look at the inputs the ecm is looking for to complete a regen. Something isn't providing a correct input and this is preventing the regen from completing.

The 'regen specialist' kind of agrees and said there are 3 things required for a regen, but seems like he doesn't know what to do next. I said they need to call in the next level of support, probably a factory rep (if that exists).

I will let them try and figure it out since I realize it is intermittent and I know those types of problems can be very difficult to solve.

I would think there would be something in the error history of the ecm when this occurs (again, I don't know if this exists).

Anyway, I will post what they find, if anything, or what the outcome is.

Mike

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

What is the SN of your tractor?

SDT

 

[SDT]

So I figured I would give an update on my regen issue.

I had another episode where the tractor showed a regen was occurring (regen light on) for about 30-40 minutes and then shut off.

This occurred on the 4th of March after a snow storm.

I had blown/plowed 4 driveways in the morning and after a windy day want out to clear drifts that evening around 7:15 pm.

Tractor showed regen after 5 minutes of running so I just kept working. Regen light stayed on the entire time.

Temp was around 25 and I debated about whether I should install the bra. I know it is recommended when operating the tractor at 32 or below, but I tried that a couple of times and if blowing and plowing the tractor overheated to the point of beeping at me and the gauge showed all the heat 'bars' (much prefer a gauge that actually shows temp).

I finished and the regen light was still on so I drove the tractor to the furthest driveway and cleared it of drifts.

Light still on so I drive it 1/2 mile down the road. That is when it shut off.

It sits with the regen light flashing and won't start. I have to wait around 40 minutes until it will start. Meanwhile I am sitting in the cab in a sweatshirt and it is 25 degrees out.

I video the multiple failed attempts to start it until finally it starts, after 40 minutes.

While sittting, I installed the bra figuring it couldn't get hot enough for the regen to occur. That is what the tech told me last year when he gave me the bra (I never received one when I purchased the tractor).

Even with the bra on and the temp bars up to 4 (3 are normal) the regen light stayed on while I drove home.

I sat with the tractor at full throttle for at least another 10-15 minutes and the regen light never went out. I also never saw the white smoke indicative of a regen taking place.

It was now around 8:30 so I hit the 'cancel regen' button and the regen light went out.

I called the dealer a day or so later and explained this to the service manager, their 'regen specialist' and the tech that had been out last January (2018).

They said they will stop out but they are out of ideas. The 'regen specialist' kind of wanted to make it sound like it was something I was doing/not doing correctly.

They still haven't been out (they said they are very busy and I said I don't really need it since I have my old reliable JD 4115) and I haven't driven the unit since. I will follow up with them next week since it will be 4 weeks.

I service office equipment for 32 years and I know they are going to have to look at the inputs the ecm is looking for to complete a regen. Something isn't providing a correct input and this is preventing the regen from completing.

The 'regen specialist' kind of agrees and said there are 3 things required for a regen, but seems like he doesn't know what to do next. I said they need to call in the next level of support, probably a factory rep (if that exists).

I will let them try and figure it out since I realize it is intermittent and I know those types of problems can be very difficult to solve.

I would think there would be something in the error history of the ecm when this occurs (again, I don't know if this exists).

Anyway, I will post what they find, if anything, or what the outcome is.

Mike

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

The latest information that I have is that the injector timing must be "correct" for regen to perform "reliably."

Apparently, Kubota changed the timing spec, probably to increase exhaust temperature (or timing was simply set incorrectly upon assembly). Many (most?) of the units in the field need to be retimed, which is time consuming.

Ask your dealer if the injector timing of your unit has been verified and if it is otherwise up to date.

Only the latest units were shipped with current updates.

SDT

 

[micdelbo]

Here is the serial number tag from the tractor.

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[SDT]

Here is the serial number tag from the tractor.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Mine is 71379 and I was told that mine is very close to the SN break for the latest firmware load and the improved reformer. Yours almost certainly has neither.

I would have your dealer verify that yours if fully up to date and that the injector timing is correct.

The techs at my dealer tell me that they have not had problems with F series mowers or 3350s that have the latest updates.

Caveat: Interrupting a regeneration operation in process still causes subsequent problems.

SDT

 

[whitetiger]

What's an SVL?

Straight Vertical Lift, a Kubota track loader. Kubota also offers a
SSV which is their SkidSteer Loader and has tires rather than tracks.
Kubota does not offer a skid steer with tracks at this time.

 

[micdelbo]

What a joke.

Got the machine back today. Dealer had it 5 weeks. They said they had the Kubota rep look at it and they determined the reason it shut off and wouldn't start after calling for a parked regen was.... Water in the fuel.

I kind of laughed since the tractor is kept inside.

I didn't have time to talk but their management and I are going to be having a discussion.

Mike

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[North Idaho Wolfman]

Water in the fuel.

I kind of laughed since the tractor is kept inside.

UMMMMM....
You do know that water in the fuel has nothing to do with where you park the tractor.

You get water in the fuel either from where you bought it, how you store it or a multitude of other things, but not normally a rain issue.

 

[SDT]

What a joke.

Got the machine back today. Dealer had it 5 weeks. They said they had the Kubota rep look at it and they determined the reason it shut off and wouldn't start after calling for a parked regen was.... Water in the fuel.

I kind of laughed since the tractor is kept inside.

I didn't have time to talk but their management and I are going to be having a discussion.

Mike

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Nonsense.

Be advised that Kubota is actively looking for reasons to deny warranty claims for B3350 regen issues. BTDT.

If denied, you may need to file a claim with Customer Satisfaction. You may even need to escalate (appeal) it. BTDT.

Let us know how you make out.

FWIW: Mine is back at the dealer for the same issue. Been there over three weeks now.

More to come.

SDT

 

[micdelbo]

My comment about the tractor being kept inside was not my only thought on the ridiculousness of water in the fuel as the culprit.

When I asked how the water could cause the machine to shut off and not start for 40 minutes, they said it was due to the water freezing and the tractor not being able to pull fuel.

I asked them how the water froze last July when it did the exact same thing. They had no reply.

Also, the tractor started after 40 minutes of sitting in 25 degrees and then ran another :30 or so until I had to cancel the regen and shut it off. Same fuel was used in other equipment with no issues as well.

I am no kubota tech, but I know when something is not working correctly. There is something that the ecm is not reading correctly and is causing the regen to not complete.

I will use the tractor and see if it happens again. If/when it does, I will capture it in video and go to the dealer.

In the meantime, I will see how to contact kubota directly if the next level of management at the dealer offers no other input.

Mike

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[rjcorazza]

Eventually they will imply that your machine is the only one they are aware of with this Regen problem.


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[Bmyers]

I will be curious to see what the final outcome of this turns out to be.

 

[SDT]

I will be curious to see what the final outcome of this turns out to be.

So will I.

I'll keep followers informed regarding mine.

As of this morning, word back from the Kubota authorized diesel injection shop is nothing is wrong with the pump or injectors. Expected this but Kubota wanted them checked before changing the expensive reformer..

Hopefully, Kubota will now authorize replacement of the "$5,000" reformer.

Should know later today or Monday.

Monday will be one month in the shop this time.

SDT

 

[dirtydeed]

hopefully they get you guys fixed up soon and that they speed up the development on the B3350 replacement.

I recall seeing a messicks video some time ago about all the the service (TSB) updates on that model. They indicated that it was a rather thick notebook detailing the testing procedures and updates.

Don't know how much this model has actually hurt Kubotas' reputation, but it should have been the top horsepower producer in the popular B series models. That's got to sting a bit. I'm sure it helped many potential customers to either go down an engine size or up to the L01 series. Wonder how many jumped to another brand.

 

[George Barlow]

I have a 2015 B3350 that I bought new and it’s the biggest piece of crap I’ve ever owned. Has 150 hours which 1/2 or more have been put on by the dealership working on it. I finally have lost count on how many times it’s been in the shop. It’s currently there now and I haven’t heard anything for over a week. Kubota needs to step up and make these things right. I had to dig out my fathers old John Deere 650 last week to finish getting in my firewood while my forks, grapple bucket, backhoe, wood chipper, loader bucket, box blade and everything else sets idle. Single worst purchase I’ve ever made.....

 

[SidecarFlip]

I have to ask (because I don't have a clue, what is a 'reformer' and why does it cost 5 grand?

 

[greenacresnorth]

I have to ask (because I don't have a clue, what is a 'reformer' and why does it cost 5 grand?

pretty sure there calling the DPF supercore a "reformer"

 

[lugbolt]

no the reformer is a collection of several components that make the DPF work.

On common rail engines, small amounts of fuel are injected at/near bottom dead center of the power stroke. This is done by the electronic injector's being "fired" at just the right time. In doing this, fuel is heated and actually burns in the exhaust (DPF) which causes it's temp to rise, which turns soot into ash.

A reformer system doesn't have a common rail with electronic injectors; at least not in the case of the 3350. It uses an old school mechanical pump and injectors, but the injection pump rack is electronically controlled by the ECU (and it's obvious because it does not control RPM very well). The "reformer" is basically another injector that pumps fuel into the exhaust system, but it also blows air into the system which combined with fuel causes the DPF temperature to rise enough to turn soot into ash. Likely they'll be replacing the injector assembly, ecu, perhaps the turbocharger, piping, doser pump, maybe the EGR as well.

The "good news" (if you call it "good") is that the B3350 is GONE and has been replaced with a common-rail injected comparable. I forget the model designation. Reformers are finally gone thank goodness. But that leaves quite a few B3350's (and F3990's etc) out there with the reformer systems and those owners are the ones that have to pay the price for a poor system. Here's the deal though...it wasn't kubota's root fault. It's the darn government; after all Kubota didn't want to have to put emissions controls on tractors, they fought it for several years (they were able to buy credits to extend the time they HAD to comply as was everyone else). This gave 'em time to come up with a system. Most of the +25hp tractors are fine but the little bitty engines just couldn't get injectors and enough air to work correctly to make the DPF regenerate. The bigger the engine the easier to regenerate.

If you ask my opinion, the whole emissions on tractors thing is a great waste of money for the consumers. Exactly the reason I keep saying that it's time to investigate a gas burning tractor; much the same as some of the local UPS delivery trucks are changing their old diesel trucks to gas (replacing them altogether with gas burners). The TCO just doesn't add up with tier IV emissions on diesels.

The local city vehicles are all CNG-which is dirt cheap (literally, it's so cheap it's not funny....$0.51 GGE). The cost comes initially in the changeover which ain't cheap. About $10k for a garbage truck (ISX powered). There's other fuels out there too which haven't been explored much and some of them make more torque than diesel, gas, cng, lng, or lpg.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Pre Tier 4 tractors of greater horsepower are getting very hard ti find used (any brand, not just Kubota. Users (farmers) are keeping the old non emissions tractors longer and asking top buck for them if they sell them.

When I stumbled on the used M9 last spring 400 miles from here, I bought it because they don't exist on the market today and if they are for sale, they are beat but even beat is rebuildable.

The owner of my Kubota store / dealership was out last month to the farm and looked over my purchase and asked me what I gave for it. When I told him 18, he told me I stole it.

It needs a few odds and ends like a new front timing case seal and the outboard left planetary upper bushing needs replaced, but overall condition is pretty good for an early 2000 unit with over 3500 hours on the meter.

Came with the LA 726 loader and SSQA quick attach and a utility bucket and it's a hydraulic shuttle so no dry clutch.

The older engines are pretty bulletproof so long as they have clean oil and air and oil filters changed regularly.

Bottom line with diesels is the government ruined a good engine with their pollution mandates.

 

[boz1989]

no the reformer is a collection of several components that make the DPF work.



On common rail engines, small amounts of fuel are injected at/near bottom dead center of the power stroke. This is done by the electronic injector's being "fired" at just the right time. In doing this, fuel is heated and actually burns in the exhaust (DPF) which causes it's temp to rise, which turns soot into ash.



A reformer system doesn't have a common rail with electronic injectors; at least not in the case of the 3350. It uses an old school mechanical pump and injectors, but the injection pump rack is electronically controlled by the ECU (and it's obvious because it does not control RPM very well). The "reformer" is basically another injector that pumps fuel into the exhaust system, but it also blows air into the system which combined with fuel causes the DPF temperature to rise enough to turn soot into ash. Likely they'll be replacing the injector assembly, ecu, perhaps the turbocharger, piping, doser pump, maybe the EGR as well.



The "good news" (if you call it "good") is that the B3350 is GONE and has been replaced with a common-rail injected comparable. I forget the model designation. Reformers are finally gone thank goodness. But that leaves quite a few B3350's (and F3990's etc) out there with the reformer systems and those owners are the ones that have to pay the price for a poor system. Here's the deal though...it wasn't kubota's root fault. It's the darn government; after all Kubota didn't want to have to put emissions controls on tractors, they fought it for several years (they were able to buy credits to extend the time they HAD to comply as was everyone else). This gave 'em time to come up with a system. Most of the +25hp tractors are fine but the little bitty engines just couldn't get injectors and enough air to work correctly to make the DPF regenerate. The bigger the engine the easier to regenerate.



If you ask my opinion, the whole emissions on tractors thing is a great waste of money for the consumers. Exactly the reason I keep saying that it's time to investigate a gas burning tractor; much the same as some of the local UPS delivery trucks are changing their old diesel trucks to gas (replacing them altogether with gas burners). The TCO just doesn't add up with tier IV emissions on diesels.



The local city vehicles are all CNG-which is dirt cheap (literally, it's so cheap it's not funny....$0.51 GGE). The cost comes initially in the changeover which ain't cheap. About $10k for a garbage truck (ISX powered). There's other fuels out there too which haven't been explored much and some of them make more torque than diesel, gas, cng, lng, or lpg.

I really enjoy learning this stuff, but I have a few dumb questions.
What is tco, cng, gge, cng, lng?

Thank you for taking time to share your knowledge.

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