Going crazy over emissions!!

[paparob]

So, I was going to get a L2501 with loader, backhoe, brushhog and box scraper to maintain my 5 acres and some other offsite project. I liked the sounds of the 3901 37hp much more than the 2501's 25hp...but was scared of the emissions.....
My question is, are people actually having issues with these emissions or is it just us old-timers "assuming" we'll have issues, hating anything that involves emissions and government control??

 

[russell.still.5]

I think tractor don’t have that many issues because of the constant RPM unlike a truck.


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[paparob]

I think tractor don’t have that many issues because of the constant RPM unlike a truck.


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I was also thinking that the DPF systems seem pretty simple, more like the older emissions systems....now, if they put a DEF system in my tractor, with the liquid, I might be more concerned...but honestly, they systems in the (3901 I'm looking at) seems pretty simple and it seems like it would be pretty trouble free.....

 

[Daren Todd]

Most of the issues were probably more operator related then tractor related. With the new emissions, you have to make sure and keep the operating temperatures up. So run at higher RPMS, no lugging the engine, and make sure and read sheepfarmer thread in the stickies about the new DPF systems.

You as the purchaser need to really consider your actual uses for the tractor versus perceived uses for the tractor.

You may have a big field that needs to be mowed twice a year, and a large driveway that needs to be maintained and smoothed a couple times a year. But what is the majority of the tractors use gonna be?

If the majority of the tractors usage is gonna be a self propelled wheel barrow with quick runs down to the end of your driveway to haul trash, and collect yard debris and sticks, then the smaller tractor is for you. It will still mow the field and fix your driveway. Just takes a little longer.

If the majority of usage is where your really gonna work the tractor and be able to keep the operating temperatures up, then go for the bigger tractor.

We had a 25hp Kubota growing up and used it on 100 acres of land. It mowed fields, tilled gardens, maintained the driveway, skidded logs, pushed back snow banks, moved manure, hauled rock, and other tasks. But the most hours on it were from hauling vegetables from the garden and driven around the yard to collect yard debris.

 

[85Hokie]

Brother Daren - well said, I highlighted those points that I feel are the major problems with the "tractor and emissions" All of your points are right on the money!!!

Most of the issues were probably more operator related then tractor related. With the new emissions, you have to make sure and keep the operating temperatures up. So run at higher RPMS, no lugging the engine, and make sure and read sheepfarmer thread in the stickies about the new DPF systems.

You as the purchaser need to really consider your actual uses for the tractor versus perceived uses for the tractor.

 

[virginiavenom]

I lug my L4060 plenty, in fact, it's at idle 75% of the time easily of actual running hours. no problems, just run the regen and let the regen cycle complete before turning it off, preferably a little longer than just finishing. think of it like a turbo, or anything mechanical really, you don't want to run it hard until it's warmed up.....but by the same token, you don't want to shut it off immediately after a heavy amount of work, let the oil cool down and the engine itself cool down, now with the added DPF, you'll want to let that exhaust cool down a good bit before killing it. otherwise I have no problems to speak of. most truck issues are user related, didn't put fluid in it, trying to run oil through it like old ones ran etc. I've had a number of DPF and now DEF trucks, never a single emissions problem from any of them. my tractor thus far has been bullet proof. now...keep in mind problems do come up, but it's a result of the added components, not necessarily that they are emissions devices, all devices fail. adding more devices only increases the possible frequency of the problem. With that being said, I understand Kubota had a serious problem with their B3350 line....I do not know if that issue has been resolved, but at one time dealers stopped selling them. again, read the instructions and run it when it's full or just before and you'll be fine. I try to do mine while doing something I will be at full RPM for a while for....like brush hogging/mowing. I'll be out there for a while, so if it says it's at 90%, go ahead and do a regen. otherwise I've had not a single issue. Neighbor uses an M7060 for hay, he has close to 1000 hours on it, no problems thus far.

 

[paparob]

So if I'm purposely running it at a higher rpm throughout it's life....I will get less life per hour than a none emissions tractor...would that be fair to say?

I don't mind "beating" on a tractor a little...but yes, mostly it will be clearing, firewood, grading the driveway a few times a year, bringing the garbage cans up to the road, etc, etc.

So maybe the "issue" isn't so much that the emissions have any real troubles over a none emissions...maybe the issue might be just how you need to operate one and if that fits my situation.....hmmmmm

 

[beaterboss]

So if I'm purposely running it at a higher rpm throughout it's life....I will get less life per hour than a none emissions tractor...would that be fair to say?

I don't mind "beating" on a tractor a little...but yes, mostly it will be clearing, firewood, grading the driveway a few times a year, bringing the garbage cans up to the road, etc, etc.

So maybe the "issue" isn't so much that the emissions have any real troubles over a none emissions...maybe the issue might be just how you need to operate one and if that fits my situation.....hmmmmm

I understand your concern. I too don't like running higher RPM's for no reason. BUT....That being said, I got very used to hearing my 3901 running at 2000 RPM, and it is actually much quieter than my 2501 was. There also doesn't seem to be any perceptible negative effects on fuel economy. Oddly enough, I seem to go longer on a tank with my 3901 than I did with the 2501. Granted my 2501 had some Gremlins that the dealer couldn't find, but still, it was loud. After a brief warm up, my 3901 runs at 2000 RPM's all the time. I have 46.4 hours on it, and have had 2 completely uneventful Regens to date. System works flawlessly thus far. When it is telling you it wants to Regen, bring the throttle up a bit and keep on working. With the modern lubricants of today (ie: Synthetic oils), I doubt there will be any increased wear on the engine. I don't do any mowing or very heavy work with my 3901, mostly loader work and landscaping. But I think the extra HP will help out with the 3pt blower in Winter.

 

[SDT]

So, I was going to get a L2501 with loader, backhoe, brushhog and box scraper to maintain my 5 acres and some other offsite project. I liked the sounds of the 3901 37hp much more than the 2501's 25hp...but was scared of the emissions.....
My question is, are people actually having issues with these emissions or is it just us old-timers "assuming" we'll have issues, hating anything that involves emissions and government control??

If you consider significantly increased prices, as I do, then, yes, people are having issues, regardless of other factors.

SDT

 

[paparob]

If you consider significantly increased prices, as I do, then, yes, people are having issues, regardless of other factors.

SDT

I didn't think the prices were too out of line to be honest. Price different between 2501 and 3301 were about 2k for around 8hp and the 3301 and 3901 also was about 2k difference for around 5hp. so actually seemed to be getting more hp per dollar going from none emission to emission..then emission to emission. I was more concerned about actual mechanical issues though.

 

[roddenby51]

So, I was going to get a L2501 with loader, backhoe, brushhog and box scraper to maintain my 5 acres and some other offsite project. I liked the sounds of the 3901 37hp much more than the 2501's 25hp...but was scared of the emissions.....
My question is, are people actually having issues with these emissions or is it just us old-timers "assuming" we'll have issues, hating anything that involves emissions and government control??

Recently purchased L4760HSTC, needed/wanted an air-conditioned cab, LA1055 loader, and 40-PTO HP. DPF was never a consideration, nor was the ECU controlling the engine... I'm simply enjoying the power and comfort of my Kubota. Don't spend time worrying about the emission controls on any of my street vehicles either.

Kubota has the DPF in hand... let them worry about emissions while we enjoy the machine that suits our needs/wants.

 

[Botamon]

I was pretty apprehensive when I went from my 60 year old John Deere 2020 diesel to the 2016 Kubota M7060 because of the DPF. After having used the Kubota for several months now, the worries have gone away. As Darren Todd says, keep the RPMs up and you'll be fine. The Kubota is just as fuel efficient as the John Deere even though I make sure I don't let it idle a lot, and a heck of a lot quieter. Don't have to wear ear plugs any more! I've mowed ~ 60 acres so far this summer and saw the regen light come on once for a few minutes. That's all there is to it - if it weren't for the regen light coming on in the dash, I wouldn't know it was regenerating. (All mowing was done with the tractor set at EPTO so engine RPM was only 1800-1900 rpm. About 250 hours on the Kubota so far.)

 

[Cathy Liebchen]

I didn't think the prices were too out of line to be honest. Price different between 2501 and 3301 were about 2k for around 8hp and the 3301 and 3901 also was about 2k difference for around 5hp. so actually seemed to be getting more hp per dollar going from none emission to emission..then emission to emission. I was more concerned about actual mechanical issues though.

The DPF is not an issue. More power is always better, particularly at the PTO, and the cost difference is just a sunk cost, you get it back on a resale.

 

[mdhughes]

paparob,
I have a L3901DT and use it to cut firewood, take care of my driveway and a private road. I also have been doing some backhoe work around my place since I got the BH77.

I have 300 hours on it now and have had 22 regens, all with no problems.

I used it a lot during the winter and have had it regen at 10F, it took a little longer for it to get the DPF hot enough to do the regen, but I just kept on doing what I was doing and it completed it without any problems.

You just need to pay attention to the dash now and then to see if the regen and up rev lamps.

I have been very happy with the tractor, it has done everything I have asked it to do so far.

 

[SDT]

The DPF is not an issue. More power is always better, particularly at the PTO, and the cost difference is just a sunk cost, you get it back on a resale.

I would not bet on getting the added cost of the Tier IV nonsense back in the future. The jury is still out.

Stay tuned.

SDT

 

[SDT]

I didn't think the prices were too out of line to be honest. Price different between 2501 and 3301 were about 2k for around 8hp and the 3301 and 3901 also was about 2k difference for around 5hp. so actually seemed to be getting more hp per dollar going from none emission to emission..then emission to emission. I was more concerned about actual mechanical issues though.

Invalid comparison.

One must compare the price of a pre Tier IV model to the replacement Tier IV model to realize the significant cost penalty of the Tier IV nonsense.

The increase is very significant.

SDT

 

[Cathy Liebchen]

I would not bet on getting the added cost of the Tier IV nonsense back in the future. The jury is still out.

Stay tuned.

SDT

I will replace it at 3,000 hours, about 20 years from now.

 

[paparob]

Thanks for all the replies gentlemen.
I had an estimate for the 3901 with la525 loader, bh77 backhoe, 2060 brushhog, box scraper and deluxe canopy (quick release bucket, r4's, etc).
I'm also having him work up a price for same thing in 2501 but with a loader grapple, light kit, forks, quick hitch and swap out box scraper for grader scraper.
Will see tomorrow...but still pondering....it's a lot of money so I want to make the best choice....don't want to just get the 3901 for more power that I might not need (my nature) but also don't want to get the 2501 out of fear of the emissions and end up with something underpowered.

 

[prof.fate]

I did research and well, I need the HP...and I like the fact I get no smoke or diesel stink!

I got a kioti CK3510hst, much cheaper than kubota (3500ish) with more options.

Dealer says in 3 to 4 years of selling DPF tractors they've had ZERO issues, not a one.

SOME kubota's seem to be having issues from what I've read online.

Mine regens about every 38 hours. I run it at 1800-2000 rpm most of the time - I was told keep the RPMs up for HST cooling (longevity) and to keep the exhaust hot.

The worst thing is running it around at idle, using it cold a lot (aka short trips).

Summer isn't an issue with use..winter we'll see. Typically start and run it 5-10 minutes to run hay out the pastures...unless it snows enough to plow that's gonna be it 6 of 7 days (day 7 move manure)

AS to HP choice...
kioti's 25/35/40 are all the same size, the 38 was $1800 more, the 40 yet another 2500 (at the dealer I was at..prices of course vary a bit).
One of the main uses is brush hogging and the extra PTO hp means I can run a bigger brush hog - saves me time.
Also, the 35/40 models come with a higher capacity loader.
Figure if I need the power, I NEED tHE power - so what is the trade-off to more power?

Initial cost, more fuel consumption. Cost is somewhat offset on resale at some point in the future.

What does it give me?
The PTO power to run the bigger hog, enough PTO power to hay if I want to (still pondering it). BIgger loader.

And logic would suggest that doing the same task with higher HP means youre not' working it as hard...so it will last longer.

As to fuel..brush hogged at 2800 rpm and it was thirsty. I has a 'range' of 540 pto, 1900 ish being 'eco 540'...seems 2100 RPM works just as well at 2800 and uses about 20-25% less fuel. With 10 hours of cutting that adds up.

My last unit, a kubota L175, was running full tilt to cut with a 4' brush hog and I"m much more comfortable running a bigger unit at 60% of capacity than a smaller one at 100%.

 

[adventure bob]

L6060 owner with DPF and 270hrs. No issues. I'm not sure why people have issue with emissions controlled tractors. Semis have DPF and millions and millions of miles on them without issue. Are there failures out there? Sure, but you have the same failures of any complex electronically controlled mechanical system. Its like saying you wont fly because planes crash. The incidence is so small as to be statistically irrelevant. I would actually like to see the brand data on any actual failures and compare that to entire model fleet for a real percentage. Id bet a beer its actually really small.