one hot water heater.. two buildings?

[coachgeo]

3 feet from an outer wall I am setting up an old RV I just bought for a friend to live in while he heals. Probably will be about two years. Hot water heater (50 Gal) is inside of that wall in the house. House is one bed one bath... only myself in the house... maybe plus one in near future thus reason for moving him out of my living room into the camper.

In our below freezing winter weather of southern OH... is it even possible to run Tee off a hot water line and run it into the camper? Why?? Camper is old enough (1985) to be a 110v 30amp hook up. Concerned hot water heater in the camper running off that plus electric winter space heater or summer AC, electric cook top as well as fridge (camper LP stove and fridge gone)..... would be too much power draw .... thus the idea behind using hot water from in house.

? Maybe run it thru a box with massive insulation and a heat tape...
? Box mounted flush to the camper and house????
? put cold water line in same box. Cold water line has to be run to RV anyway.

camper has no hot water heater (that works) and plumbing has to be a bit repaired anyway.

What is ya'lls thoughts?

 

[G.rid]

My first thought is outdoor boilers, they have heavily insulated lines running to the building they heat. But the down side is that the water is always circulating. Your senerio the water could lay for extended periods at a time, you might need even more insulation to keep it from freezing up.

A little more extreme idea. If the RV is parked that close to the house. Cut the top and bottom out of a plastic 55 gal drum, prop it up at the needed hight, run you lines, then fill the rest roxol insulation (it doesn't matt like pink if it gets wet)

 

[Charlie5320]

Should be fine if the heat tape don't fail. They will have to run the water for a bit to get hot or cold water though. What about the sewage? How you going to combat that? That will be more of a problem than the water.

 

[coachgeo]

Should be fine if the heat tape don't fail. They will have to run the water for a bit to get hot or cold water though. What about the sewage? How you going to combat that? That will be more of a problem than the water.

That's main reason why put the camper next to that particular wall. That is where the sewage clean out cap is. Easy access to use for hooking up the waste lines. Old orginal house is not on city sewer and the sewage system installed before I bought the place was replaces with one over sized with thoughts toward larger "family" home potentially being built replacing the original 1950's era "couples" home.

Generally waste lines do not freeze

 

[Daren Todd]

Back in an old house we lived in, in Vermont. We had a hot water line that went along the outside of the house for about 10 feet. Not sure why it was run that way.

We first wrapped the line in heat tape. Then wrapped it in foam pipe insulation. The same stuff they sell in sections at the big box stores.just snap it around the pipe and wrap with some duct tape in spots to keep it from getting knocked off. Didn't have any issues. We did run the faucet on a drip in the winter during sub zero temps, to help with freezing.

 

[coachgeo]

thanks...... sounds like it will work.

 

[Tooljunkie]

What are the low temps going to reach?
That will change how this is dealt with. Run hot/cold in an oversize pipe with your heat trace. Some “pex” will withstand freezing and you want some flexibility between the 2 buildings.

Not relevant,but the water line here runs under my driveway. 20” down. Flat on bedrock with insulation on top. Frost under a road can go as far as 6 feet.

Looks like a challenge to me. Hope you can figure it out.

There are heat trace cables that run within the lines themselves,using a t in the line.

 

[Howling]

To keep water moving and avoid freeze up could put a hot water recirculation pump in the RV. These take hot water and push it back the cold water pipe, looping it back to the hot water heater. Used in large houses so sink at end of run always has hot water.

In your case use a timer to run it periodically in winter so water in pipes never has time to sit and freeze up.

 

[coachgeo]

What are the low temps going to reach?..

Lowest I've seen it is 5F outdoors. Night temp. Swings between teens-30's would be the normal across days of the week.

 

[D2Cat]

Coach, following what Daren said, I buried a water line from my well to a hyd. and automatic cattle waterer at the farm. Some of the rock was so large I couldn't find the edges with my backhoe. It was 20" deep (shallow) is some spots.

I put 1 1/2" PVC (for the water) in 3" PVC (because I had a bunch laying around) for a shield in the rock. I then used pieces of 3" foam on the sides and the top of the pipe.

Never heated, never wrapped with elec. tape. Never had a problem in the 10 years it's been there.

Frost goes down, and can get to the pipe on the side also. So put good insulation on the sides.

 

[Lil Foot]

Some “pex” will withstand freezing

Maybe it's a matter of temp/duration, but my neighbor (in the mountains) is plumbed with PEX and has had a freeze broken line every year for three years in a row. Our in ground supply lines are buried at 39".
That being said, a short length of pipe in an insulated box should be no problem at all, especially if there is a "drip" flow on the coldest nights.

 

[Yooper]

To keep water moving and avoid freeze up could put a hot water recirculation pump in the RV. These take hot water and push it back the cold water pipe, looping it back to the hot water heater. Used in large houses so sink at end of run always has hot water.

In your case use a timer to run it periodically in winter so water in pipes never has time to sit and freeze up.

You beat me to it, Howling. This is a picture of what I use in my house to keep warm water readily available on the end of the house opposite the water heater.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

4" Foam box and leave an air space to the heated house and you be fine.

 

[torch]

I've done something similar for similar reasons.

In my case, the trailer is about 40' from the house. I heat-traced the supply hose, encased it in foam pipe insulation, then fiberglass wrap insulation over that then metallic tape over that and buried it. My trailer has it's own on-demand propane hot water heater on board. The waste water pipe was similarly insulated and buried for the run to the septic tank.

The trailer itself has a furnace plus 1-1/2" Styrofoam insulation in the walls and ceiling plus storm windows for 3-season use. We added insulation to the underside and skirted the trailer with heavy plastic used for heat-shrinking boats for winter storage to keep the wind out. Also encased the rooftop AC unit with foam panels and covered the roof with a tarp. I had no problems with the supply line or the septic line.

Problems we did encounter in the dead of winter: Well, first of all there was a terrible condensation problem. With the AC unit sealed up, the only vent was the range hood vent. Running the range fan helped with the humidity, but removed the heat as fast as the furnace could warm it. We ended up adding a de-humidifier to keep humidity under control and an auxiliary electric heater fan to help the furnace keep up at night. The furnace was going through 20 lbs or more of propane per day during the cold spells. At a $1 per pound to refill the cylinders, it got expensive fast!

Second, the hot water was more like warm water. Warm enough for a shower if no cold was added.

But the biggest problem was the water pipes inside the trailer froze. Buried in the toe space under the cupboards and in walls, no warm air could directly get to the interior plumbing. The first sign of trouble was when the toilet wouldn't flush one morning. One of the lines in the wall to the shower actually split. Accessing the piping in the dead of winter and dealing with the plumbing problems was not fun, nor was repairing the damage done the following spring.

Your mileage may vary. Overnight lows around here can hit -40°C. -20° to -30° is common. Daytime highs rarely rise above -10°C. But I personally would not put someone up in my trailer over the winter again.

 

[Daren Todd]

Torch, you can also use desiccant packs to cut down on moisture in your trailer in winter. Wife and I had similar issues with our camper the first time we used it in winter. Talked to an older guy at the camp ground where we were staying, and he recommended them.

You can find them in the rv section, camper sales, or mail order.

https://www.deltaadsorbents.com/rv-dry-kit---large

 

[coachgeo]

distance to short to bury.... water pipes it will connect too are too high off the ground.. looks like it would be very inefficient layout with more pipe exposed outside to get to the ground and then back out of the ground than it would be to run nearly straight across in an insulated box. That and time and labor of that complexity is more expensive than a used LP heater to install in camper. hmmmm......

 

[Magicman]

I did it for our guest house which is ~50 feet from the water heater and I worked so well that I extended it another ~75 feet to my shop.

I used 1/2" cpvc, foam insulation, and slid that inside 2" pvc. It's buried to both buildings and I added heat tape to the portions that come out of the ground and enter both buildings.

Of course I will concede that nothing freezes below ground here in Mississippi.

 

[ccoon520]

As long as the pipe can retain heat you should be ok. So on top of the insulation and heat tape you could also put a couple of straw bails up against the pipe on either side sandwiching it out of the external air. So on windy days there isn't a wind tunnel created in-between your house and the camper that blows across the pipe but instead across the bails. If you have some extra tin or plywood laying around you could box in the end of the trailer with the house to make a little air bubble that should be slightly warmer than ambient as well due to heat escaping through windows of the camper or radiating off of the walls of the house and camper. If you can supply some warm air from the house or camper to act as a shielding layer that will assist as well.

Also be sure to skirt up the bottom of the camper with bails or tin or something during the winter so there isn't wind blowing underneath. It will help everything retain heat which is especially important if it isn't an all weather camper.

There are no guarantees that it will hold up but it will give you a better chance.

 

[cmorningstar01]

Put in a small point of use tankless water heater, you can run a 220 volt line to your homes panel and put in a designated breaker

 

[Magicman]

I would agree with that option being the most foolproof.