PTO Generator Use/Compatibility

[BWXT]

My question is about the size/output of the generator vs the HP rating of the tractor/pto. My tractor only has a 12hp engine with 10 pto hp. many of the generators available start at 7kw and therefore require minimum 14pto hp to achieve full output. Question is can I run one of these larger generators off my 10hp pto and simply be limited to about 5kw output? Not here to debate the use of PTO generators. Its a good option for me. Thanks!

 

[coachgeo]

Don't want to be too much of a Jack Arse..... but as you might expect..... this topic has come up many numerous times. If you've not searched yet... You might find your answers already exist.

hmmm....... then again.. one can't search by three letters such as PTO.

Try this in google's search box [ Siterangetractortalks.com "PTO Generator" ]


PS- just checked it.. there is about 50 results on that topic. First one that come up is very informative.

http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?p=173733

 

[85Hokie]

I'm gonna guess you work for BWXT, thus you are a fairly smart cookie!
We have a local BWXT that employees mannnnny people near here.

Your machine will turn the "good for me option" but here is the kicker, as you demand more electricity from the genny - the pto will NOT be able to maintain that speed. And as with all generators, there needs to be a "certain" pto speed to allow the generator to get to the proper voltage and amp availability. Once you start slowing the pto down, the voltage will drop, the watts will try to stay the same of the device you are running demands that amount of power of total input - thats when the device will end up burning up! Also - you will need to run your tractor at THAT PTO speed, which should be something like 90-95% WOT.
YOU will not be able to reduce that, if so - lots of electronic stuff will have some of the that funny looking smoke come out of it!

What do you think you will be running off of this generator?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Sorry 85Hokie, but this is straight from a PTO generator manufactures website.

"Required HP to Run PTO Generators
When selecting the size of your PTO generator you should follow the rule of thumb that for every 2 HP you will get 1 kW out of your PTO. It is also important to know that it is not necessary to run your PTO Generator at full power to produce the proper voltage. You can use a smaller HP tractor than the full power rating of your generator so long as you are supplying the appropriate RPM. You will get a kW output equal to half of the supplied HP."

So yes your 10HP PTO output will give you about 5KW of available power.

 

[85Hokie]

Sorry 85Hokie, but this is straight from a PTO generator manufactures website.

"Required HP to Run PTO Generators
When selecting the size of your PTO generator you should follow the rule of thumb that for every 2 HP you will get 1 kW out of your PTO. It is also important to know that it is not necessary to run your PTO Generator at full power to produce the proper voltage. You can use a smaller HP tractor than the full power rating of your generator so long as you are supplying the appropriate RPM. You will get a kW output equal to half of the supplied HP."

So yes your 10HP PTO output will give you about 5KW of available power.

Be careful what you read and apply......running a generator at a speed BELOW the rpm needed will have some effects that will cause problems,

not my words .....but they do apply.

"To follow this you have to understand a little bit about generators. To obtain the proper frequency you have to run it at a certain speed constantly. There is a certain speed you can run it at depending on the specific generator you have, different gennys can have different speeds. A 2 pole generator has to run at 3600 rpm, a 4 pole at 1800 rpm, a 6 pole at 1200 rpm etc."

another :

don't count on stable voltage and frequency running this way if you have significant variations in your load (deep well pump, Air conditioner, or electric water heater kicking on, for example)

Most will run at a lower RPM , buttt....and here is the but - once the demand of amps increases, if the rpm is not enough to maintain the demand, well you get what I am saying, thus I asked the question at the end of my statement.....

what are you trying to run?

 

[BAP]

Don't want to be too much of a Jack Arse..... but as you might expect..... this topic has come up many numerous times. If you've not searched yet... You might find your answers already exist.

hmmm....... then again.. one can't search by three letters such as PTO.

Try this in google's search box [ Siterangetractortalks.com "PTO Generator" ]


PS- just checked it.. there is about 50 results on that topic. First one that come up is very informative.

http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?p=173733

Coach, did you actually read the OP question before going on your rant about searching the site? The thread you posted the link to does absolutely nothing to answer his specific question. If you don’t like people asking new questions about a topic that has been discussed before and can’t be polite about it then you should NOT be a moderator anymore.

 

[BAP]

My question is about the size/output of the generator vs the HP rating of the tractor/pto. My tractor only has a 12hp engine with 10 pto hp. many of the generators available start at 7kw and therefore require minimum 14pto hp to achieve full output. Question is can I run one of these larger generators off my 10hp pto and simply be limited to about 5kw output? Not here to debate the use of PTO generators. Its a good option for me. Thanks!

You can run the generator with your tractor but as others have mentioned, you will have to be very careful about how much electrical load you put on it. Make sure you have a meter on the generator that shows you running it at the correct output. You will have to shut off some things in your house and only run necessary items. Slowly add load to the generator until you see the tractor start to not be able to maintain RPMs. For power outages, unless you are married to all your electronics, you don’t need a huge generator to keep the necessities like heat, water, refrigerator, freezer and a few lights going. Be careful and you should be fine.

 

[BWXT]

Well thanks for all the input and yes that answers my question. I have a 6-circuit transfer switch wired to my panel to run my boiler, well pump, fridge, and lights/outlets in 2 rooms. This can all be handled easily by a 5kw generator. In fact, I currently have a 5kw Kubota gas generator. I would like to be able to run on diesel/heating oil for the ease of storage and longevity but this would only be used in emergencies and sparingly at that. Thanks again!

 

[BWXT]

And no, I don't work for BWXT. Never heard of it lol

 

[85Hokie]

And no, I don't work for BWXT. Never heard of it lol

Sorry for the assumption

they are into a lot of things - Nuclear stuff is/was there biggie.

Here is more :

https://www.bwxt.com/

 

[rjcorazza]

Well thanks for all the input and yes that answers my question. I have a 6-circuit transfer switch wired to my panel to run my boiler, well pump, fridge, and lights/outlets in 2 rooms. This can all be handled easily by a 5kw generator. In fact, I currently have a 5kw Kubota gas generator. I would like to be able to run on diesel/heating oil for the ease of storage and longevity but this would only be used in emergencies and sparingly at that. Thanks again!

I used to run a 10 circuit transfer panel coupled to a 7kw gas generator. I am in a similar position with not wanting to deal with the gasoline storage... a real pain. I recently got rid of the transfer panel and installed a lockout switch on the main panel, with future plans of getting either a 15kw PTO genset, or a Kubota 11kw stand alone generator.
I like the ability to pick and choose circuits to run on the generator, but I have to be careful to not overload my current 7kw .



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Dave_eng]

Well thanks for all the input and yes that answers my question. I have a 6-circuit transfer switch wired to my panel to run my boiler, well pump, fridge, and lights/outlets in 2 rooms. This can all be handled easily by a 5kw generator. In fact, I currently have a 5kw Kubota gas generator. I would like to be able to run on diesel/heating oil for the ease of storage and longevity but this would only be used in emergencies and sparingly at that. Thanks again!

I would suggest you consider converting a gas generator to run on propane. Propane can be stored forever unlike gasoline.

Google propane snorkel kit and you will find many options.

I have been considering ordering the conversion parts and will do so soon. I have been doing my research for a number of months.

The snorkel approach seems like the least disruptive way to do the conversion. The "snorkel" is a thick spacer going between the carb and the air filter. Its impact on the generator is minimal and you can still run on gasoline should you want to.

The key component in any kit is a demand regulator which only delivers a fuel (propane or natural gas) when it detects suction from the carb as the engine turns over while starting or running.

The Generlink product, which goes between your electrical meter and its base as an input point for a generator avoids any electrical changes inside your home. You turn on circuit breakers on your main panel as you have a need and the generator power to drive it.

Dave

 

[Redbusdriver]

A traditional generator (non inverter type) needs the stable RPM mainly to supply the 60 hz frequency. Most want the gen shaft to run at 3600 RPM to make the math work and supply safe AC to anything relying on the HZ, such as a 120 VAC wall clock or an AC motor.

Many years ago I lived on the island of Cayman Brac where they had 120V/50 HZ power. Everything ran slow and suffered brown outs, but there was plenty of power as long as the ship delivered diesel fuel to the island's generator plant.

Regarding BWX Technologies, thanks for the link. I want me some Nuclear Thermal Propulsion! Think it would work in a BX?

 

[BWXT]

I would suggest you consider converting a gas generator to run on propane. Propane can be stored forever unlike gasoline.

Google propane snorkel kit and you will find many options.

I have been considering ordering the conversion parts and will do so soon. I have been doing my research for a number of months.

The snorkel approach seems like the least disruptive way to do the conversion. The "snorkel" is a thick spacer going between the carb and the air filter. Its impact on the generator is minimal and you can still run on gasoline should you want to.

The key component in any kit is a demand regulator which only delivers a fuel (propane or natural gas) when it detects suction from the carb as the engine turns over while starting or running.

The Generlink product, which goes between your electrical meter and its base as an input point for a generator avoids any electrical changes inside your home. You turn on circuit breakers on your main panel as you have a need and the generator power to drive it.

Dave

Well, I appreciate the info, and yes I want to get away from storing gasoline as I don't use it for much else other than the mower for my small yard. The reason I want to run on diesel is because I have an oil-fired boiler that heats my house. I'd like to install a second ~300 galllon tank so that I can run a generator for a loooong time if need be and I can burn it to heat with as well. If I were to put in a standby generator it would be diesel, not propane. I like to standardize things like fuel and ammunition. The idea of the PTO generator is that there is one less engine to maintain and the cost is a fraction of a quality stand-alone unit.

We don't lose power much here, and when we do it is rarely for more than an hour. This is more of a contingency plan to keep food frozen, the heat going, and the water flowing. If I ever did need to run the generator and use the tractor at the same time I could just hook up my gasoline generator. I also have a second gasoline unit without a twist-lock that I could run extension cords off of. Finally, I do plan to get a larger tractor with a loader and backhoe within the next few years so that was why I was asking about getting a larger unit, but running it off a smaller engine for now. Thanks.

 

[BWXT]

A traditional generator (non inverter type) needs the stable RPM mainly to supply the 60 hz frequency. Most want the gen shaft to run at 3600 RPM to make the math work and supply safe AC to anything relying on the HZ, such as a 120 VAC wall clock or an AC motor.

Many years ago I lived on the island of Cayman Brac where they had 120V/50 HZ power. Everything ran slow and suffered brown outs, but there was plenty of power as long as the ship delivered diesel fuel to the island's generator plant.

Regarding BWX Technologies, thanks for the link. I want me some Nuclear Thermal Propulsion! Think it would work in a BX?

Thanks. Yes I am in the appliance field and am quite familiar with the sensitivity of modern electronics. Many of the appliances and devices designed for the US will not work properly in other parts of the world due to the 50 HZ electricity supply. There are listings available online of which countries use which electricity. Interesting stuff lol.