Replacement for air

[Oil pan 4]

I have been filling trailer tires with a half and half mix of CO2 and R-404a.
After spending $350 for a new tubeless rear tire and a tube replacement on the other tire, just dry rot it looks like, I put my mix in them.
The wheels have been back on there for almost a week now and still holding my special mix.

 

[armylifer]

Okay, I'll take the bait. Why would you use a refrigerant to fill your tires?

 

[William1]

Okay, I'll take the bait. Why would you use a refrigerant to fill your tires?

I imagine molecule size (less possible to escape through the permeability of rubber) but that is one of the reasons for nitrogen. I also imagine any refrigerant expands and contracts a lot with temp (something nitrogen does not do).
Gases inside the tire to not cause dry rot. Ozone and sunlight speed up the process.I have to top off tires a few times a year. A bunch in the fall as temps drop, never in spring as the air warms (making up for normal loss) and once or twice in the summer or winter.

 

[JeffL]

I'm always open for a new idea. However, To me this sounds like it would have the opposite effect you would want. Very low pressure in winter and high in summer. Wouldn't you always be adjusting for pressure? Jeff

 

[bucktail]

I'm always open for a new idea. However, To me this sounds like it would have the opposite effect you would want. Very low pressure in winter and high in summer. Wouldn't you always be adjusting for pressure? Jeff

That's what I thought but if the pressure is low enough that the refrigerant doesn't phase change it shouldn't be worse than air.

 

[bcp]

I imagine the benefits would be about like with nitrogen.

From:
https://www.tirebuyer.com/education/nitrogen-vs-air

As we’ve seen, nitrogen does have some technological advantages over air for tire inflation. Whether or not those advantages will be of any practical use to you depends on how you use your car. Certainly, if you fall into one or more of the categories below, using nitrogen could be beneficial:

If you have one or more cars that are primarily used at the racetrack
If you drive very sparingly and your car sits unused for an extended time
If you own collectible cars that are seldom driven any great distances
If you have to put your car in storage for a significant period of time




Bruce

 

[Oil pan 4]

Tires on a daily driver car will wear out before they dry rot. I have never put anything but air in vehicle tires.
Trailers and tractors don't get used a lot so they rot faster than they wear. The rear tire that dry rotted off my tractor was probably at 90% tread life.

There is no sun light getting on the tire tube, so how does it dry rot?

Ideal gas law, no need to adjust for pressure with temperature change unless you are going from Arizona to the artic circle. Plus I already tested the mix from 112°F to -10°F, pressure drop was on par with air or nitrogen. -10°F is as cold as it gets here about once every 5 to 7 years.

 

[bcp]

I have removed and cut apart 30yr+ tires, from junk cars, that were like new inside. I don't think anything you can put inside will stop weathering or dry rot on the outside.

Bruce

 

[Dieselbob]

I'm curious where you are getting your R404A. My current price for it is $7.10 per pound (weight), and I have no idea what that translates to in filling a tire, but seems expensive to me. I'm also not sure what unintended effects it might have (maybe none), but I would want to know. As for nitrogen, it's fine, but I have never seen the value of it on a street car. If you need to air up in a pinch, you either have to find somebody who has it or contaminate your nitrogen with regular air and you have to start over. I worked on NASCAR type stock cars where it is used to control air pressure build up as the car makes laps, (Increased air pressure changes the tire circumference on a bias ply tire, (stagger) and effectively changes the spring rate of the car on a radial tire.) but if your street tires are getting hot enough for that to matter, you better be fixing something. I am always leery when somebody comes up with a plan that supposedly means you don't have to check something or maintain something. I have gotten in the habit of checking my trailer tires before each trip, because no matter WHAT the tire is filled with, it COULD be sitting there with a nail in the tire just waiting to bite you when you get out on the road. I have some trailers that sitting there empty, the tires will look normal even when there is almost no air in them. You go somewhere, put a load on the trailer and find out the tire was really flat. Just some food for thought for everybody.

 

[D2Cat]

I was working on my hay trailer a couple of years ago, going over the brakes and greasing the bearings. I was all done and working on another project when I heard this NOISE. (Has very little to do with this thread because it was just air. Just for those who like photos.)

 

[skeets]

Sorry I couldnt resist

https://youtu.be/vUHlxBZMiqw?t=4

 

[Kubota Newbie]

I have to admit when I first noticed this thread it caught my eye because I thought it said "replacement for hair" which in my case was more relevant and seemed more interesting than the eventual discovery that it was about replacing "air" which I get for free in great abundance and need only run through my compressor to use.
My free air also comes free of disposal rules should I need to let the "air" out of a tire for some reason. Not that I buy all the global warming hype, but most refrigerants aren't all that friendly to the environment (compared to air of course).

 

[Oil pan 4]

I didn't cost me anything. My wife's friend had an hvac business years ago, doesn't do it any more, gave me several new full tanks of R-22, I traded it for R-410a which my newish air conditioning units need and R-404a for my tire experiment.

I'm not disposing this, I recover it and reuse it.

I never said to use this in a daily driver, daily driver tires should wear out before they can barely start to crack.

I totally stole this idea from F1 racing. So no danger.
I didn't just dream this up one night.

3 of 4 tires in my tractor will be tube tires. Tubes dry rot. Tubes last a few year. There is no sun light or Ozone in side the tire on the tube. Why does the tube dry rot?

 

[bcp]

Tubes dry rot. Tubes last a few year. There is no sun light or Ozone in side the tire on the tube. Why does the tube dry rot?

Chinese rubber?

Tubes used to last a long time.

Bruce

 

[Oil pan 4]

I don't think tubes lasted that long. My grandfather would talk about going from Franklin County Virginia to Charleston west Virginia, probably running liquor, would get up to 3 flat tires round trip, usually tubes going bad or wearing out. As if we're a normal thing.

 

[D2Cat]

It was a normal thing in the '40's.

 

[bcp]

What I remember from the 40's and 50's was that punctures and even torn tubes were common, but I have no memory of deteriorated rubber inner tubes.

Bruce

 

[skeets]

You ever been on them roads outside Charleston WVA down towards Bluefield ,son them roads aint that good today.

 

[armylifer]

The reason that tubes wear out is because of the constant heating and cooling cycle that they go through in daily use. Tubes get very warm because of friction from constant rubbing inside the tire. Heat is the enemy of tubes.

 

[Oil pan 4]

Well it just so happens CO2 and the minor component of R-404a absorb inferred heat and the major component of R-404a is used in fire suppression systems because it conducts heat away from burning material faster than it can be generated.