Cold Crankcase Ventilation (CCV) and engine damage

[minnesotakubota]

I received the following statement emailed to me from my local dealer:

"Kubota has determined that a defect which relates to cold weather operation exists in certain tractors and may cause internal engine damage if not corrected. "

Kubota has indicated that this issue was known internally in April 2016.

I purchased the tractor in November 2016.

The sent out the product improvement campaign to dealers in December 2016.

They sent me this email notification November 2017 after almost a year of cold weather use.

Further responses from Kubota indicated:

"In freezing temperatures there is a possibility that moisture buildup in the closed crankcase ventilation (CCV) filter could freeze and restrict air movement. If this occurs the engine crankcase pressure can build and spray oil out of the dipstick hole. To prevent freezing from occurring a heater kit has been developed. "

Has anyone experienced this failure? Anyone had the fix completed?

My concern is that this is a safety issue, as hot oil can spray out of the dipstick. They are considering this product improvement campaign.

I am also concerned with the timelines - its was known internally there was a problem. I purchased a new tractor with a known problem. It took almost a year to notify me after I purchased the tractor.

Kubota is no longer responding to my questions....

 

[85Hokie]

this has been a "hot" topic of late......
several posts - here is one

http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34178

 

[retyred57]

My dealer contacted me and updated my L3901 HST about 1 month ago. It takes about 4 hours and consists of a heated tube for the CCV and a new alternator to handle the additional electrical load.

 

[sheepfarmer]

wonder if an L3301 also has this problem?

If we are talking about the same recall, it is only applying to tractors in REALLY cold areas. I did not get a notice for the one that requires a heated line in mid Michigan, while I did for an earlier 2013 recall for added insulation on another part. I asked dealer about the second one, and there isnt one out for my tractor.

So while it is unlikely you'd ever need this upgrade, it never hurts to get your dealer to run your tractors serial number to see if there are any open campaigns on it. The email/mail notification system is spotty.

 

[bearbait]

http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32902

This is the same upgrade they did to mine in the spring. It took them about 90 minutes to complete which was done out in my yard.

 

[Northern Rednek]

I received the following statement emailed to me from my local dealer:



"Kubota has determined that a defect which relates to cold weather operation exists in certain tractors and may cause internal engine damage if not corrected. "



Kubota has indicated that this issue was known internally in April 2016.



I purchased the tractor in November 2016.



The sent out the product improvement campaign to dealers in December 2016.



They sent me this email notification November 2017 after almost a year of cold weather use.



Further responses from Kubota indicated:



"In freezing temperatures there is a possibility that moisture buildup in the closed crankcase ventilation (CCV) filter could freeze and restrict air movement. If this occurs the engine crankcase pressure can build and spray oil out of the dipstick hole. To prevent freezing from occurring a heater kit has been developed. "



Has anyone experienced this failure? Anyone had the fix completed?



My concern is that this is a safety issue, as hot oil can spray out of the dipstick. They are considering this product improvement campaign.



I am also concerned with the timelines - its was known internally there was a problem. I purchased a new tractor with a known problem. It took almost a year to notify me after I purchased the tractor.



Kubota is no longer responding to my questions....

So they known about this problem for over a year and didn’t tell us buyers till this nov. Not impressed. When I bought my tractor I was really torn between the Kubota and the John deer of similar size. I settled on the Kubota because they seemed to have less problems and I figured the dealership would be a better to deal with. Starting to regret my choice.


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[1970cs]

Several factors that you may not be aware of. First off it would help if you told us a model number.

On the corporate level, #1 identify the problem
#2 find the final cure (this could take a few times before it's the right move)
#3 design and engineer the package or parts
#4 find a vendor
#5 time to spool up and get several thousand pieces
#6 vendor to warehouse
#7 warehouse to dealer

Dealer level
#1 receiving the information from corporate i.e. serial number list, parts list, and directions
#2 order parts per the campaign
#3 actually getting parts (possible backorders)
#4 notifying the consumers

Now with that said, it's quite possible that your dealer has been dragging it's feet somewhat?

Pat

 

[Northern Rednek]

Several factors that you may not be aware of. First off it would help if you told us a model number.



On the corporate level, #1 identify the problem

#2 find the final cure (this could take a few times before it's the right move)

#3 design and engineer the package or parts

#4 find a vendor

#5 time to spool up and get several thousand pieces

#6 vendor to warehouse

#7 warehouse to dealer



Dealer level

#1 receiving the information from corporate i.e. serial number list, parts list, and directions

#2 order parts per the campaign

#3 actually getting parts (possible backorders)

#4 notifying the consumers



Now with that said, it's quite possible that your dealer has been dragging it's feet somewhat?



Pat

Actually my real beef is that I have to pay to rent a trailer to haul it down to the dealer to get it fixed. Not only that but I have to rent a trailer twice cause they want me to leave it there so they can fix it basically at they’re leisure. That a couple hundred bucks out of my pocket for they’re defect it’s a pretty simple fix but why should we be out of pocket. The email states they will fix it at no cost to the costumer.


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[minnesotakubota]

I am also frustrated by having to transport the tractor at my expense - and further angered that they might have known about the problem at the point of purchase.

A Kubota Canada manager told me they won't pay to get the tractor there. Although it sounds like in the US dealers have been absorbing the cost and sending out techs to complete the fix on site.

I'm continuing to fight to have this covered by going through industry Canada and the consumer protection act - there also should be a warranty extension as the problem has existed since I purchased the tractor and I have no way of knowing if it caused internal engine damage. The email I received stated that it would cause internal engine damage if not corrected.

 

[minnesotakubota]

BTW it's also an l3901 purchased in Thunder Bay, ON. The dealer here doesn't have the greatest reputation so I don't think I'll get anywhere by working with them on this, that's why I'm gong through Kubota Canada. A customer service rep inadvertently sent me an internal bulletin that provided the original date of April 2016. The next reply was from the warranty manager explaining the date was a mistake and shouldnt have been sent to me He gave me the date of Decemebr 2016 of when the dealers were provided with the fix. he stopped responding to me when I asked him why it took almost a year for the dealer to contact me for the fix.
At this point all I want is Kubota to cover the cost of sending a tech out to perform the fix so I don't have to pay anything to have this problem corrected.

 

[minnesotakubota]

http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32902

This is the same upgrade they did to mine in the spring. It took them about 90 minutes to complete which was done out in my yard.

Did they cover the cost to send someone out to perform the fix?

 

[Northern Rednek]

Did they cover the cost to send someone out to perform the fix?

They offered to send someone out to fix mine. In the spring when it warms up cause my garage isn’t heated lol
Sorry for the hijack


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[bearbait]

Did they cover the cost to send someone out to perform the fix?

Yes, it didn't cost me a cent. The way I see it is this is not a warranty claim, it's a fault of who ever designed it so there should be no cost to the customer to cover their mistake.

 

[whitetiger]

I am also frustrated by having to transport the tractor at my expense - and further angered that they might have known about the problem at the point of purchase.

A Kubota Canada manager told me they won't pay to get the tractor there. Although it sounds like in the US dealers have been absorbing the cost and sending out techs to complete the fix on site.

I'm continuing to fight to have this covered by going through industry Canada and the consumer protection act - there also should be a warranty extension as the problem has existed since I purchased the tractor and I have no way of knowing if it caused internal engine damage. The email I received stated that it would cause internal engine damage if not corrected.

"Could" cause internal engine damage. Huge difference.

 

[1970cs]

Actually my real beef is that I have to pay to rent a trailer to haul it down to the dealer to get it fixed. Not only that but I have to rent a trailer twice cause they want me to leave it there so they can fix it basically at they’re leisure. That a couple hundred bucks out of my pocket for they’re defect it’s a pretty simple fix but why should we be out of pocket. The email states they will fix it at no cost to the costumer.



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Okay I am sure that you have read your operators manual from front to back?
Here is a copy of the Kubota limited warranty handbook which should have been provided by your selling dealer.

https://www.kubota.com/assets/warranty/kubota_warranty.pdf

 

[Northern Rednek]

Okay I am sure that you have read your operators manual from front to back?

Here is a copy of the Kubota limited warranty handbook which should have been provided by your selling dealer.



https://www.kubota.com/assets/warranty/kubota_warranty.pdf

Yes I’ve read it but it’s still not right. I admit that I didn’t read it till today. I was going to let it go till I found out that the defect was known about a year which includes a cold winter ago.


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[sheepfarmer]

I am not sure what the difference in campaigns and warranty work is in Kubota's mind, but the argument could be made that the dealer should eat the time for a tech to come out and do the installation of the new improved parts. The tractor should not have been delivered with an outstanding campaign on it. They (the tech or dealer) are supposed to check each unit for campaigns when they do the pdi. How they are supposed to deal with the situation if the parts were not available I dont know. I have heard that there is some financial incentive for them to get the campaigns done.

 

[1970cs]

I am also frustrated by having to transport the tractor at my expense - and further angered that they might have known about the problem at the point of purchase.

A Kubota Canada manager told me they won't pay to get the tractor there. Although it sounds like in the US dealers have been absorbing the cost and sending out techs to complete the fix on site.

I'm continuing to fight to have this covered by going through industry Canada and the consumer protection act - there also should be a warranty extension as the problem has existed since I purchased the tractor and I have no way of knowing if it caused internal engine damage. The email I received stated that it would cause internal engine damage if not corrected.

I am I reading your location correctly, Minnesota? And then I am reading Canadian consumers affairs.

I am hoping that you bought it in Canada and then had to move into the U.S.

The reason why I say this is that, we get warnings from Kubota coporate all the time about selling to consumers in Canada (don't know why with the exchange it would be silly to)

Warranties between both countries are different. With this being said, you may run into big problems with warranty repairs in the future unless you take back to the Canadian dealer.

Pat

 

[1970cs]

I am not sure what the difference in campaigns and warranty work is in Kubota's mind, but the argument could be made that the dealer should eat the time for a tech to come out and do the installation of the new improved parts. The tractor should not have been delivered with an outstanding campaign on it. They (the tech or dealer) are supposed to check each unit for campaigns when they do the pdi. How they are supposed to deal with the situation if the parts were not available I dont know. I have heard that there is some financial incentive for them to get the campaigns done.

Reading the OP's statement then this would be incorrect. Campaign was issued in December 16 and unit was retailed in November 16.

Pat

 

[sheepfarmer]

Oops, good points Pat, I misremembered the dates in the OP.