Hydraulic system not working after fluid change (Newbie)

HICAMI

New member

Equipment
M5500
Aug 21, 2017
8
0
0
Leelanau County, MI
I'll try and be brief but cover what I've done and what's happened. Short summary at the end.

~First tractor of my own, no mechanical background other than basic oil changes, replacing belts, starters, alternators, brake repairs, etc on trucks.
~When i bought it the curl down was weak (wouldn't put more pressure on ground than just resting) and FEL boom lowering was SLOW. Curl up and FEL raise were decent.
~I thought it was low on fluid (hydraulic fluid was leaking from coupler near lever, leaked fluid near 3 point)
~So I drained the hyd fluid and it looked like milky light green snot. I can post a picture tmrw.
~Cleaned the filter (magnet/canister type) with kerosene per the manual. It was full of metal shavings on the magnets and 1/2" of sludge at the bottom (and 1 fly.)
~Filled with 12g of hy/trans oil (Traveller RENEW) the amount per the manual. TSC didn't have any listed oils.

~Fired her up and lifted the bucket fine.
~Curl up fine and curl down was slow as it used to be.
~Raised the bucket all the way and curled down all the way and lowered the bucket.. still slow as molasses. Then the bucket wouldn't curl up. This had happened before and I went up front and jiggled it a little and hopped back in and up she went.
~Lowered everything to almost touching and checked the transmission and it went fwd and reverse fine in 2L.

Then I went to raise the bucket again and it wouldn't go. At all. Tried lowering it and it went slow as it always had. It wouldn't curl up, but it curled down slow, which again was always weak. I did hit the throttle when I tried raising it. Did nothing. Might have hurt pump? The 3 point wouldn't raise but lowered slow to the point where it was bottomed out, then wouldn't go up again.

~Checked dipstick, hyd oil level was a bit high to begin now lower but still within range of markings on stick.
~Leaking from front right FEL lift ram. Leaking snotty looking old fluid, while dipstick has clear new fluid.
~Idled engine for 15 min and it leaked fluid. Saw drip originating at throttle body pretty steadily which makes no sense so it has to be coming from somewhere else above but I'm not familiar with the hydraulic system enough to know what's what.



Summary: changed out hyd fluid and cleaned filter to try to fix weak power in new-to-me tractor. Found snotty milky oil and sludge in filter. FEL worked for one raising and lowering to get new fluid into cyl and then pooped out and stopped working altogether. New leaks were found.

I'm thinking I did one or more of the following mistakes:
~wrong hy/tran fluid
~too much or too little hy/tran
~blew seal in pump
~I have a clog in quick connect or line somewhere but that doesn't explain sudden total failure of system.

It's my first time working with hydraulic systems and it's all a little new to me. Forgive my ignorance and thanks to anyone who wants to help a 1 post newbie. I won't ask for help and leave.
 
Last edited:

100 td

Active member

Equipment
B21TLB (B21, TL421 & BT751) Toyota SDK4 T116 Bobcat
Aug 29, 2015
1,776
9
38
ɹǝpunuʍop
Many possibilities due to your "snotty" oil! You may have air in the system, or a blockage, and metal isn't nice, but may have accumulated over a long time let's hope!
You can start with the following.

The majority of FEL problems that use quick connects, are caused by the quick connects. Relieve all pressure when on ground and clean/operate all QC valves and reassemble. Be careful for stored pressure squirting high pressure fluid from fittings, use appropriate personal protective equipment, do not get under or place your body parts through the loader frame as it may move or lower and crush you when releasing pressure at QC valves.
Try cycling the loader up/down, curl/dump again to remove air and see how you go. Continually monitor hydraulic level. it's likely you will need a few changes/filters to flush the system of it's contaminants.
 

jryser

New member
Jun 7, 2017
427
3
0
59
Plainfield
Was there water in the system? I've seen oils do that color change with the inadvertent addition of water.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

HICAMI

New member

Equipment
M5500
Aug 21, 2017
8
0
0
Leelanau County, MI
Thank you, 100 td! My buddy's first response was he thought air lock. Blockage I'd hope not, don't see how it happened all of a sudden, maybe I knocked something loose? I'll find out tmrw when I clean and squirt all the valves. Hoping it's just air.

You mentioned I may need a few changes to flush system of contaminants.. Do you mean I need to buy another 12 gallons of fluid and clean the filter, multiple times? If I need to, I need to, no getting around it. Just want to make sure I'm understanding.

Thanks again for your help!
 

HICAMI

New member

Equipment
M5500
Aug 21, 2017
8
0
0
Leelanau County, MI
Was there water in the system? I've seen oils do that color change with the inadvertent addition of water.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Could have been before I got it. Could have been while I've had it if water can get in and do that from condensation in the reservoir, rain, or general Michigan humidity.

Either way, the problems began only after I changed out the snotty fluid and cleaned the gunky filter out.

Thanks for your response. Do you think there's water getting in somewhere I'm not thinking of?
 

jryser

New member
Jun 7, 2017
427
3
0
59
Plainfield
Tough to know. I do know when it happened on our old Ford 5000 it was pretty tough to get all cleaned out. I'm not nearly the hydraulics expert that some of the others here are. Just the problems you are having in general make me very hopeful for a quick solution for you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

HICAMI

New member

Equipment
M5500
Aug 21, 2017
8
0
0
Leelanau County, MI
Thanks! I'm going to bed here in just a minute and your post helped calm my head. Getting to sleep's tough when I got stuff like this on my mind.

Again, thank you all for your kindness to a new guy.
 

jryser

New member
Jun 7, 2017
427
3
0
59
Plainfield
Hey I'm with you! I had a rare error code on my L3560 and it took some of the Orange folks here to really help me!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

100 td

Active member

Equipment
B21TLB (B21, TL421 & BT751) Toyota SDK4 T116 Bobcat
Aug 29, 2015
1,776
9
38
ɹǝpunuʍop
You mentioned I may need a few changes to flush system of contaminants.. Do you mean I need to buy another 12 gallons of fluid and clean the filter, multiple times?
Your hydraulic system needs to be squeaky clean, to get it that way (by the description of your fluid, which sounds like it is water contaminated) you will need to drain/flush cylinders/hoses etc. to get the best chance of removing all the crud from you system and drive. This may be assisted by removing the hydraulic tank etc. Don't forget to drain axles as water may be in the bottom of them. Over time with use the fluid in the cylinders will generally be replaced with other fluid, mixing and diluting the contaminants. So multiple flushes may be required depending on what lengths you go to to clean the system fully.
 
Last edited:

100 td

Active member

Equipment
B21TLB (B21, TL421 & BT751) Toyota SDK4 T116 Bobcat
Aug 29, 2015
1,776
9
38
ɹǝpunuʍop
From http://www.hydraulicspneumatics.com...-water-and-oil-don-t-mix-and-what-do-about-it

Three sample bottles contain hydraulic fluid with various concentrations of water. The sample at left contains virtually no water. The sample in the middle contains emulsified water, giving it a milky appearance. The sample at right contains free water, which can be seen at the bottom on the bottle.




You need to get the system back to the bottle on the left, and that means all of the oil, not just the stuff on the dipstick, as water goes to the bottom due to weight and can separate out.If you just crack you drain plug on your tranny and each axle after letting it sit for a couple of days, let a few teaspoons run out through the threads of the plugs without removing the plugs, into a nice white or clear container and you will really see what oil or water is in the bottom of your machine. If it's not pure oil, then you may have a lot of sludge still hanging around in the bottom recesses of your machine.
 
Last edited:

007kubotaguy

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
B7100DT L245DT JD 2355
Dec 23, 2012
643
256
63
Herald Calif.
Hello
It sounds like the hydraulic pump has lost its prime . Remove the suction line from the top of the pump and pour in some hyd. oil. The suction line is the one with the filter on it. How much metal did you find in the filter ? These tractors had a problem in the rear end and could be were the metal is coming from. How many hours are on the tractor.
Good Luck Lance
 

HICAMI

New member

Equipment
M5500
Aug 21, 2017
8
0
0
Leelanau County, MI
Thanks for the responses, 100 td and 007. I'll try both and drain the water from the axle tonight or tomorrow.

I want to get it clean and keep it clean. In a way I'm glad this happened, it's a chance to learn and to start everything right.

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk
 

HICAMI

New member

Equipment
M5500
Aug 21, 2017
8
0
0
Leelanau County, MI
Update: Got the FEL working but may have f-ed something else up:

~Tried filling with more fluid and loosening each line on loader and hitting throttle to push air out. Didn't do much, but did something.
~I went to open the pump out connection to fill/prime and oil leaked out as soon as the seal was broke so i figured it must've either been full or fluid that was trapped in the output line back drained into the chamber once the seal was broken and filled it while the bubble escaped out the crack. I couldn't access the suction side, it was on the bottom. When i went to tighten it back on, one of the bolts felt weird and never got really tight. It felt like I had stripped it but I didn't apply enough force to. So I got it as tight as I could, left it, and moved on.
~I opened the end of the line coming out of the pump itself and let it go until fluid came out. It came out in a dribble but it did come out.
~Fired her up and tried to raise FEL and up it went. :D
~Switched to lower back down and it stopped and my pump started spraying everywhere. I shut down throttle and the tractor and it stopped.
~Looked at it, and it sprayed mostly out judging by the relative lack of oil stains on the tractor vs how much i saw spray outward.
~It looks like it sprayed out from the output connection in a fan like it would if it came out from the crack between the fitting and the pump itself.
~I'm gonna get some thread tape and try and get a better connection. If that doesn't work I'll get a new bolt. If that doesn't work I'll figure something out.
 

HICAMI

New member

Equipment
M5500
Aug 21, 2017
8
0
0
Leelanau County, MI
One of the three bolt holes on hydraulic pump is stripped. Still works enough to lift it and move around but I don't want to make it do any work until I can get it retapped.

Any advice on retapping a bolt hole on a hydraulic pump?
 

100 td

Active member

Equipment
B21TLB (B21, TL421 & BT751) Toyota SDK4 T116 Bobcat
Aug 29, 2015
1,776
9
38
ɹǝpunuʍop
Helicoil or similar, just go slowly and ensure your drill bit and coil tap is square.