third starter freezing up

[drtglynch]

last winter I bought an '09 M7040 for plowing 2km of cottage road here in NS and from the start, when the temp dips below freezing the starter would whine upon turning the key but would not engage the flywheel. I had to use a heat gun on the starter/selenoid (with hammer tapping) and the bendix would release and it would engage and start after a few minutes. I didn't want that hassle this winter so I had the starter removed and it was faulty on a bench test with a lot of moisture inside. Replaced with a new one ( and new battery and block heater ) and after the first cold day the exact same problem ....apparantly moisture gets inside somehow and freezes up . Needed the heat gun again . I returned and replaced the starter with a third one and after three freezing days it is back to the same whining with the turn of the key. Now i store the heat gun in the cab. The local dealer has no answer. We are getting another 40-60 cm tonite and I dread the thought of fighting with it again in the morning . Any ideas?

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[85Hokie]

Same manufacture of starters each time? And any way to keep the moisture out ?

 

[tcrote5516]

Does the tractor sit out in the open? Granted you shouldn't be having these problems even if it's sitting outside but for now maybe a tarp over the hood would be a good idea. Moisture is getting in there somehow.

 

[drtglynch]

Same manufacture of starters each time? And any way to keep the moisture out ?

last two were different . I suggested to their mechanic to use a tube of gasket maker upon installation but he said the ground is through the adjoining plates .... he didn't want to do this as he said they Never see this issue at the dealership . The tractor is stored outside but the moisture somehow got in after only one day ! and btw.... it is only when temp is subzero that this occurs ... it otherwise starts like a charm .

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[drtglynch]

I put a tarp over it today but I fear it won't make much of a difference at this point as the moisture is already inside .

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[Tooljunkie]

Plowing in deep snow? Engine getting soaked?
Applying sealant after starter is installed should help.

Now i have to ask, is a lower cover missing or a plate fallen off or a clutch boot gone? Drive area is getting moisture from somewhere,its likely from bellhousing area around clutch. If a new starter didnt solve it than likely snow is coming in from an open area between engine and transmission. Like up from underside too.

 

[tcrote5516]

I put a tarp over it today but I fear it won't make much of a difference at this point as the moisture is already inside .

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Wonder if the grease they are using just get's gummy in low temps. Maybe wipe off the factory grease and hit it with some WD-40? Would displace water, prevent rust and keep things slippery at low temps.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Not a complete fix, but will help you get through the bad weather.
Magnetic block heater, stick it to the starter and warm it up.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Kats-1155-20...ash=item25cefc161d:g:R1YAAOSwnHZYVBeu&vxp=mtr

 

[Tooljunkie]

I use a magnetic heater on my oil pan for cold starting. It should work well on a starter.

When ford first came out with the small fixed magnet starters,they froze up too, but popped magnets off and would demolish starter. Ford ran out of replacements that winter.

Water was getting in from splashing through puddles.

The drive kicks out on a splined shaft to mesh with flywheel.
Drive must be engaging,just bendix is slipping.

 

[drtglynch]

thanks ..... the shop is going to send someone out on the next fine day and I'll pass on the suggestions . I'll pick up the magnet heater for now .. and in case they remain stumped about the water getting in .



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[lugbolt]

What kind of starters are they? I'm assuming the first was the original that was factory installed?

The Kubota remanufactured starters have been less than stellar, in my experience. There are some aftermarket ones that are better quality, even though they're chinese.

The original replacement, about $650, IIRC, is the best one in my experience.

Watching this....my MF 1145 does the same thing. Starter NLA

 

[Dave_eng]

last winter I bought an '09 M7040 for plowing 2km of cottage road here in NS and from the start, when the temp dips below freezing the starter would whine upon turning the key but would not engage the flywheel. I had to use a heat gun on the starter/selenoid (with hammer tapping) and the bendix would release and it would engage and start after a few minutes. I didn't want that hassle this winter so I had the starter removed and it was faulty on a bench test with a lot of moisture inside. Replaced with a new one ( and new battery and block heater ) and after the first cold day the exact same problem ....apparantly moisture gets inside somehow and freezes up . Needed the heat gun again . I returned and replaced the starter with a third one and after three freezing days it is back to the same whining with the turn of the key. Now i store the heat gun in the cab. The local dealer has no answer. We are getting another 40-60 cm tonite and I dread the thought of fighting with it again in the morning . Any ideas?

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I have a 2012 M7040 in snowy Ontario. Blow snow all the time and never had a starter freezing issue. Are you storing your tractor under cover. Mine is an an open sided shed so it gets cold but not rained or snowed on until I need it.

When you start it do you follow the warm up procedure in the owner's manual which has you leave it running for a long time at about 1,500 rpm to thoroughly warm up the hydraulics and engine. I know your problem is starting but perhaps something else you are doing is creating or allowing the moisture to get inside and remain to freeze.

With the block heater you need to know a trick to get the engine to fire immediately. The block heater warms the block and the glow plug computer thinks it is warm outside and gives little to no glow plug time. Then when you crank the engine, it is inhaling very cold air and takes time to start.

The trick for the glow plugs goes like this. Put the shuttle lever in forward and turn the key to start position. I count to 10 and then release key from start, move the shuttle to neutral and start the engine. It fires instantly with no cranking. Nothing appears on the dash to let you know the glow plugs are heating but once you try this trick once you will be convinced.

I came back to edit my post after thinking of a simple short term fix for you. Silicone pad heater.
The one in the photo I bought to stick on my portable generator to make it easier to start when cold.
It measures 9 cm x 3 cm and stick on to anything clean.

You could stick it to the starter solenoid and run it like the block heater. It only has to get it above freezing. To much wattage and you risk cooking it.

This link is to a Canadian company selling them. https://www.dieselproducts.com/en/engine-protection-and-control/engine-heaters/oil-pan-heaters.aspx

Do you need any manuals. Owners, FEL, WSM.? Send me a pm.

Dave M7040

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Dave_eng,
I like that heater!

 

[Tooljunkie]

And the wattage is ninimal. So it would be ideal. Have installed then on imports many times. Glue onto oil pan with good quality silicone. Proper installation is the key. This could be tie-wrapped right to starter body.

Thinking about this problem would like to see a couple photos. Curious if melting snow is running over starter and if some sort of shield would help prevent this.

 

[drtglynch]

I'm certainly going to make some kind of shield... maybe a heavy canvas flap riveted to the engine hood .
There is certainly snow and rain that gets in around the starter but I'm stumped as to how water would get inside to freeze the bendix in this tractor vs all the others sitting on the lot at the dealership .... That heating pad seems like a very good solution .... I'm ordering one now .
.

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