locate buried disconnected electrical wire

[CaveCreekRay]

Len,

Are you feeling OK buddy?

Of course you realize this is an awesome reason to put a nice low-time trencher on your radar so you can justify the purchase! LOL!!!! You NEED one for your stable of equipment.

There is one parked in downtown Cave Creek for sale. Its the size of a small Kubota so it would cost me a bundle to mail it. I thought a half second about buying it. I have 1000' of irrigation water line I need to trench in the next couple of weeks.

Good luck!

 

[D2Cat]

Ray, you've probably noticed over time, I don't comment much about backhoes, except folks buy them and a while later never use them.

I own a Ditch Witch R40 with hoe mounted and 6-way blade for backfill, and spacers to widen the cut up to 12" on trencher teeth.

I've owned this machine for many years. It's about a 1982 model. Paid for itself many times over!

I use to bury water, electric, downspouts, and pets!

I will have the wire spliced and bury in sand. It'll probably last another 15 years!!

 

[Tooljunkie]

Think i would at least add a loop, cut cable back away from corrosion and use approved splice connectors. Im sure you have a handle on it.

 

[skeets]

I hope you run UF cable #10 at least or run conduit allllll the way out and up to the box

 

[Calman93611]

Progressive Electronics, which is now Tempo and also Greenlee make wire trackers. The model 508 is a hard wire and good to about 24", model 521 is hardwire and inductive good to maybe 36". If you know your wires are deeper then you will need more expensive machines. I also have a Ditch Witch wire tracker that I know is good for over 8' feet depth, however I paid several thousand dollars for it. Generally you need a wire tracker before using other equipment. It is possible to just start with a model 2003 ground fault locator. Usually I start with a wire tracker to find wire path, then use the ground fault locator to find the actual fault. I use to give seminars in the use of these equipment. Most people using the 2003 ground fault locator can isolate a ground fault within a 6" diameter circle. Another method is to use a TDR, Time Delay Reflectometer, this will also determine the fault, however it comes out as a measurement from where you are. Obviously you will need to know wire path ahead of time then it is simply a matter of measuring. In my opinion the TDR is the least accurate. Sometimes I will use the TDR to get me within 5 feet or so then switch over to the 2003 ground fault locator.

I don't know if you have an Ewing Irrigation supplier in your area, they use to rent out these equipment and if they don't they would probably know of contractors to find your ground faults.

My experience in finding broken wires and/or ground faults is that generally there has to be an obvious cause, using an auger, etc. and driving through the electrical wire or gophers/squirrels chewing through the insulation. Also a lightning strike will follow a trench several feet below the surface. If there are no obvious signs then I check either end. I keep a wire tracker on my truck at all times. The ground fault locator is bulky and expensive so I keep it at home until it is needed.

I hope some of this helps. When you do find your problem I would suggest trenching back about 5' each direction, install splice boxes either end and make your splice. In my area splice boxes are required by code. I have seen my share of fly-by-night repairs that did not use splice boxes and the underground splice has pulled apart because of trenches settling.

Good luck!

 

[bcbull378]

I worked for Southern California Edison for 37 years as a lineman / splicer, what you have is what's commonly called a dead leg. You have a 3 wire service 2 hot phases one neutral , when one of the hot phases faults you'll only have 120 volts at your load end. This happens more than people know , you will need a fault finder witch is a device that you hook to the faulted phase after its in the clear at each end. You probably have a aluminum service that's direct buried if the insulation was damaged buy rodents or has a shovel nick in it as soon as moisture reaches the aluminum it will fault it will look like a bad battery terminal it'll turn to white powder. Call your local power provider let them know what your problem is and they may send a lineman out to locate the fault. I located 100s of service faults for customers on there side of the meter. If the fault is on the line side of the meter your power company should fix it for nothing. Good luck If I can be of any help let me know .

 

[Dave_eng]

Pet stores that sell invisible fences for dogs often have an instrument to help find where the wire is broken. My pet store rents theirs out for $20 for an afternoon plus a deposit.

Where they have the advantage however, is the main control box for the invisible fence is sending out a signal along the wire.

The broken wire detector is essentially an am radio tuned to a certain frequency.

Look for some you tube videos of repairing the invisible fences and you will find a ways to locate a break without needing the expensive industrial equipment. Alternatively, if you know someone with an invisible fence borrow their control and connect to your wire.

However, having working with the type of wire you have, unless someone has driven a T bar post into the ground or dug through it, I would think your problems are at either end of the wire.

Go to Youtube and put "invisible dog fence locating broken wire" and you will find all sorts of ingenious ways to locate breaks. One involves connecting the wire to a lawnmower spark plug wire and then going out into the field with a radio tuned to AM 530.

This is a link to the lawn mower solution: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu4nFBMjeME

Dave M7040

 

[D2Cat]

Thanks for the help guys. I ended up having the guy who owns the oil lease do the work as detailed in thread #18.

 

[bcbull378]

This past summer I upgraded the wiring going to my shop to a 200 amp service, I used crimp lugs with a manually operated Burndy crimper.

If you have this type of lug connector on your lines be suspicious of them they're known to occasionally fail.

Another thing to check is if your using Federal breakers ( Stabloc )they're also known to trip leaving one leg live.

This type of splice is for overhead wire ( non tension ) and underground cable inside of a vault if being used on a ground or neutral not energized cable. You will need to use straight crimp connections and put a heat shrink over them to keep moisture out or it will fault again. Dan 37 year lineman spliced with So Cal Edison.

 

[Dave_eng]

This type of splice is for overhead wire ( non tension ) and underground cable inside of a vault if being used on a ground or neutral not energized cable. You will need to use straight crimp connections and put a heat shrink over them to keep moisture out or it will fault again. Dan 37 year lineman spliced with So Cal Edison.

Dan
For my education can you plse tell me about the connectors I see linesmen putting on using a 22 blank type device like a Hilti ramset.

Dave M7040

 

[bcbull378]

Dan
For my education can you plse tell me about the connectors I see linesmen putting on using a 22 blank type device like a Hilti ramset.

Dave M7040

Dave , they are not to be used as a inline splice and there's no way to make it water proof with a heat shrink. For the underground you need to use a Burndy insulink or a aluminum nico splice. The Splices your talking about in the previous post are meant to be used on overhead conductors not direct buried cable.

 

[Dave_eng]

Daniel
I should have said they were being installed on primary which had stretched badly during an ice storm and were now too close to the ground.

The electrical splice kits you get with a submersible pump, which are going to be constantly submerged in, to survive. The heat shrink has a hot melt glue inside. Could this not be used in the direct burial repair?

Dave

 

[bcbull378]

Daniel
I should have said they were being installed on primary which had stretched badly during an ice storm and were now too close to the ground.

The electrical splice kits you get with a submersible pump, which are going to be constantly submerged in, to survive. The heat shrink has a hot melt glue inside. Could this not be used in the direct burial repair?

Dave

A inline splice needs to be used if it's going to be buried or submerged in water, the heat shrinks don't work well with a parallel groove connector.

 

[D2Cat]

Dan, I appreciate all your helpful information.

This is very similar to what the guy used in the splices. He had a box of the splices and a bag of 12" long heat shrink tube about 3/4" dia. (which he cut in half, using 6" in each splice). Some silicone (or something similar) seemed to ooze out of the heat-shrink ends.

I quizzed him about the reliability of the fix. He said he's probably spliced 500 breaks, and maybe had 5/6 need further attention. The wires had a loop for some slack, bedded in sand.

As long as the automatic waterer works, the cows are happy!!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/IDEAL-46-40...2a5eb1e&pid=100005&rk=6&rkt=6&sd=201724572414

 

[Dave_eng]

A inline splice needs to be used if it's going to be buried or submerged in water, the heat shrinks don't work well with a parallel groove connector.

Daniel

Thank you very much for the information. I had not thought of the multi strand wire implications. The wires for submersible pumps, although stranded, have much larger diameter strands than one normally sees. The splice kits included with the submersible pumps, all of which have motors made by Franklin Electric, seal to the insulation on each of the 3 or 4 colored conductors. The wires themselves are connected by a crimp style connector.

Dave

 

[scdeerslayer]

Some silicone (or something similar) seemed to ooze out of the heat-shrink ends.

Was probably heat melt adhesive, at least that's what marine grade heat shrink has. You need that to have a good seal, that stuff at the home improvement stores typically doesn't have it and doesn't seal very well.

 

[D2Cat]

All these materials came from the oil field supply house. They use what ever they sell to keep their pumps working, so it's not the lowest grade available. Plenty good for what i need!

 

[Tooljunkie]

That heat shrink has adhesive sealant inside. Double wall shrink tubing. I have various sizes. I dont use anything else. Terminal grease inside connector and its a permanent repair. In auto wiring repair,i use terminals with heat shrink on them. Anytime i cant solder i use these. Crimp and heat. Waterproof,with the salty slop on the highways here its a constant battle.

 

[Brandonorr55]

Dave,

Those .22/Hilti connectors are called fire on connectors, or more commonly by their brand name "Ampac." They very similar to a Hilti/Ramset in that they have a charge that when detonated by a hammer blow, forces a piston to "wedge" a piece of connector between two conductors.

If you look at the picture, you will see the wedge in the middle, and the two conductors (wires) and firmly clamped in the "c" portion by the wedge. These connectors are supposed to cause the least amount of damage to the wire, and provide superiour electrical properties. In addition, the same tool can be positioned in the opposite direction of install, activated with another charge and hammer blow, effectively removing the wedge and allowed for conductor removal. Pretty cool piece of equipment.