Been a while since I have been on. Just curios to know if anyone with a 60 series tractor has had any DPF issues? I have 2013 8560 with nearly 600 hours and the DPF operation has been pretty flawless. Just a little inconvenient on maybe a couple of occasions when you're trying to finess the loader at low RPMS then have to jump to 2K RPM's for the DPF regeneration. Any thoughts, opinions, or comments?
Anyone with DPF issues?
- Thread starter Junior390
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Not so far. Early on there was a campaign to replace the oil separator with insulated versions and covered lines, but otherwise no dpf problems that I have heard about.
The one thing I'd like, and have told any Kubota person who would listen, is the ability to trigger a regen when convenient for me. Since we have the monitor of particulate level, it would be great to do it say at 97% when the work load or weather is appropriate. (You can't trigger a parked regen until the tractor is at level 2). A Kubota sales guy told me that new really big models now permit that.
The one thing I'd like, and have told any Kubota person who would listen, is the ability to trigger a regen when convenient for me. Since we have the monitor of particulate level, it would be great to do it say at 97% when the work load or weather is appropriate. (You can't trigger a parked regen until the tractor is at level 2). A Kubota sales guy told me that new really big models now permit that.
Southern Yankee
New member
Equipment
L3301 HST, Front Loader. Land Pride Brush-Hog, Box Blade, and Quick Hitch
Level 2 refers to PM warning level. PM I assume stands for particulate matter. The computer in these tractors communicates with the operator via blinking lights and buzzers. In the manual for the 60 series tractors there are two tables that decode the lights and buzzer sounds and which tell you what you can do when it does any of them. Maybe someone with an 01 manual can chime in here, or you can go looking in your manual.
The tractor never gets to Level 2 if all goes normally. It is quite possible that your tractor has regenerated while you were working, and you didn't notice. If the rpm is high enough and it is in auto regen mode, you might not have noticed a blinking light. Alternatively if you are doing a lot of steady mowing it may not have built up enough soot particles to trigger a regen.
The tractor never gets to Level 2 if all goes normally. It is quite possible that your tractor has regenerated while you were working, and you didn't notice. If the rpm is high enough and it is in auto regen mode, you might not have noticed a blinking light. Alternatively if you are doing a lot of steady mowing it may not have built up enough soot particles to trigger a regen.
Southern Yankee
New member
Equipment
L3301 HST, Front Loader. Land Pride Brush-Hog, Box Blade, and Quick Hitch
Thanks. I would think I would see the lights flashing. It is probably because I did not get particle build-up. As you say, mowing is at high PTO rpm and I do not idle a lot. I read the manual but I am not sure I understand it all. I figured I would re-read it when it happened.
I love "the team", how did you get them to sit like that? I tried to blow the photo up but it doesn't go. I do not miss that white stuff.
Richard
I love "the team", how did you get them to sit like that? I tried to blow the photo up but it doesn't go. I do not miss that white stuff.
Richard
FYI. Is anyone reading their manuals? I know it's a little hard to get the grasp of the DPF regeneration!
The only way to reach level 2 or 3 is to intentionally hit the inhibit button. Also another post here recently someone mentioned that going through a regen was not great during his work process due to the increased RPM's. FYI you can hit the cancel/inhibit button. (the one with the slash mark /)
Here is a video of how things work by Messick. Unless I missed it, the during regeneration the should be lights with the puff of smoke sign and arrow up sign (some units do this for you now) to raise RPM and the regen button on the dash should flash.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9Ya1mp4cO0
Pat
The only way to reach level 2 or 3 is to intentionally hit the inhibit button. Also another post here recently someone mentioned that going through a regen was not great during his work process due to the increased RPM's. FYI you can hit the cancel/inhibit button. (the one with the slash mark /)
Here is a video of how things work by Messick. Unless I missed it, the during regeneration the should be lights with the puff of smoke sign and arrow up sign (some units do this for you now) to raise RPM and the regen button on the dash should flash.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9Ya1mp4cO0
Pat
Richard, thanks! The dogs are not very well trained, I used to work at it more but these are good enough to get by. The key thing they know is not to rush through any open gate unless invited. The picture was just lucky.
Pat, it is not quite true that you can't get to level 2 without being in inhibit mode. You can interrupt regeneration or it can fail to start if the computer is not happy with the rpm, the dpf temperature, or the coolant water temperature.
The manual warns against unnecessarily interrupting regeneration because a small amount of fuel can get mixed into the oil. I have done this by accident when I touched the throttle and reduced the rpm below the threshold. It went back to it as soon as I increased it.
I have not found any info from Kubota as to how long you can postpone a regen with the inhibit mode button. There is a statement in the WSM that the ECU will request a parked regen (which is level 2) "if the PM level does not decrease to automatic regeneration level in 1800 seconds after automatic regeneration starts." It is not clear if this only deals with unsuccessful regens or what.
I am suspicious though that you could inhibit it long enough to finish a line of fence posts!
There seem to be subtle differences in the process among the different models and engine type with the b3350 being the most different. I think, but don't know, that the L--01's are pretty similar to the 60s except for the PM screen and some of the lights.
Pat, it is not quite true that you can't get to level 2 without being in inhibit mode. You can interrupt regeneration or it can fail to start if the computer is not happy with the rpm, the dpf temperature, or the coolant water temperature.
The manual warns against unnecessarily interrupting regeneration because a small amount of fuel can get mixed into the oil. I have done this by accident when I touched the throttle and reduced the rpm below the threshold. It went back to it as soon as I increased it.
I have not found any info from Kubota as to how long you can postpone a regen with the inhibit mode button. There is a statement in the WSM that the ECU will request a parked regen (which is level 2) "if the PM level does not decrease to automatic regeneration level in 1800 seconds after automatic regeneration starts." It is not clear if this only deals with unsuccessful regens or what.
I am suspicious though that you could inhibit it long enough to finish a line of fence posts!
There seem to be subtle differences in the process among the different models and engine type with the b3350 being the most different. I think, but don't know, that the L--01's are pretty similar to the 60s except for the PM screen and some of the lights.
I am not sure how the computer handles the two things, but as I use the words, inhibit happens via a specific button on the console and can be a steady state before and during a need for regeneration, and interrupt can happen only once the regen has started and could be via the button or more likely if the operator shuts the machine off (one poster), lets the rpm drop too low as I did, or one of the temp sensors complains.
I am still curious as to how long you can inhibit a regen once it is due, and sent off an email to Kubota, but if you have any technical contacts that can read the software and can answer it that would be great. The problem is I think they are upgrading the software all the time, and there might not be a single answer.
There is no set amount of time. It's dependent on how the tractor is used, how much the engine is loaded, if it's doing idling or if it's wide open throttle/low load, etc.
There are 5 stages of DPF soot level (SL).
SL1 is no big deal. This typically shows up as you're bush hogging for instance, running at nearly full throttle. The REGEN lamp comes on and stays on solid for a few minutes then goes out. It's important to NOT shut the tractor off or idle down while this lamp is on steadily.
SL2, again not a big deal. Just let it regen when it wants to. You may have to raise the RPM, but the ECU will tell you to with the engine light with an arrow pointing "up".
SL3-now we're getting into possible issues with owners and operators. With soot level 3, you must do what's called a "parked regeneration" (aka parked regen). You'll have to take the tractor away from dry vegetation, set the parking brake, mash the auto RPM button (right button on the L-01 series), let the tractor get up to operating temp, make sure all transmission functions are in neutral. It'll automatically rev the engine and will then reduce speed when regen is complete.
SL4, you MIGHT be able to do a parked regen-but likely will have a code set in the ECU that may have to be cleared by the dealer.
SL5- the DPF will have to be removed and cleaned (or replaced). At this level the engine power is de-rated to I think 50% power, so you won't be able to do much with the tractor. The derating is done to protect the engine. As the DPF gets plugged, it creates a lot of exhaust back pressure and therefore exhaust gas temperature can get really hot, which can melt pistons and damage other components.
With soot levels 2-5 you will get a beep. A soot level 2 will beep slowly. A level 5 will beep quickly. With 4 and 5 you will get a code in the dash and possible reduced engine power. On the M series, a stage 5, the engine will idle-and idle only. I think on the "L" series it'll rev up but won't have any power.
It is obvious when the tractor wants to regen. There's lights in the dash. Then there's the beeper. Don't ignore them unless you like spending money. If you have to replace the DPF, be warned-it's not cheap!
It's a good practice to leave the tractor running when a regen cycle starts. Shutting it off during a regen is a great way to prolong the process; because the engine needs to be at operating temperature in order to regen. So if you shut it down, come back the next day, you'll have to wait for the engine to warm up for it to start the process-which takes a LOT more time than, say, just letting it work. I know people who have done this and I know at least one of them that the regen process has taken months for this exact reason. On this note, it's always a good idea to make sure the radiator and screens are clean. Once regen starts, the engine RPM will be high. Debris in the screen/radiator can cause it to overheat. I don't know how Kubota has worked around this with the ECU regen cycle programming since I haven't dealt with it yet. Just a heads up-keep it clean. An L3301 that overheats and destroys the engine is considered a total loss due to the expense of replacing the engine and DPF. I did an insurance estimate earlier this year for just this isue and the estimate was in the $18,000 neighborhood, BUT this was a worst case scenario.
Thanks lugbolt, I wondered if the computer used time or the DPF pressure to decide when to up the ante if it was in inhibit mode. So do you have any idea as to what the manual is driving at with the 1800 second thing? Maybe it is to cover situations in which the regen even if underway is not working. If it is normally complete in 10 or 15 minutes, and PM doesn't decrease in 30 minutes, it tells you to do parked regen. Not sure why parked regen would be better.
I know curiosity killed the cat, mine never has gotten out of Level 1, and I hope to keep it that way.
So we picked up a B3350 Cab model to handle our increased winter client list, previously running B2400 which we kept for the backhoe. First regen on the 3350 was eventful; at about 18.5hrs the DPF light came on steady, happened to be moving a bunch of fill so I just kept working. After about 20 minutes I started to wonder when the DPF light would go off, not long after the machine just stalled. Could not get it re-started until I yanked the positive terminal off the battery for a minute. After trying this it fired right back up, with the DPF light still on. I shrugged my shoulders and kept working. Roughly 15 minutes later the light went out. Since then the machine has been flawless, 2nd regen just happened at 37.9hrs, I happened to be driving the machine back to the shop from our property down the road, so I just kept plugging along. Sure enough 22 minutes later the light went off. Have to say after 2 successful regens Im feeling alot better about owning a tier 4 machine (dont get me wrong, still love the simplicity of that good ol B2400, nice to idle it and not worry about clogging some goofy filter).
OK, I received a very interesting reply from Kubota about the comment in the L60 series WSM on the length of time that you can inhibit a regeneration before the computer will insist on a parked regeneration. In short, you have 30 minutes (1800sec) from when the dpf light starts to blink to successfully COMPLETE a regeneration. So if it usually takes about 15 minutes to do a regen on your machine at a given temperature and workload, you have about 15 minutes that you can postpone it. As Lugbolt said it partly depends on what you are doing.
They point out that there are several ways that the tractor can transition from one level to another, and that dpf filter flow restriction is not the only parameter that the computer looks at. The 30 minute limitation also applies to other situations besides those when the inhibit button has been pressed. If the tractor has reached the threshold for a regen, someone might have shut the tractor off or the conditions for regen might not have been met. Then you also have 30 minutes to complete the regen. This means from the sound of several posters comments, you could be part way through an auto regen and if it takes too long to complete due to interruptions etc, a parked regen will be asked for.
Big caveat here: their reply was directed to me and my 2013 L3560. I have just added a B2650 to the menagerie, and the operators manual includes the directions for the B3350, and they are different in many details, so READ YOUR MANUAL! I have no idea what differences there may be in the L-01 tractors either. The B3350 has an entirely different engine from the L's and the softwre has been updated several times. So the manuals may get revised.
All that being said, most of us have never seen PM levels 2 and higher. The light blinks and we increase the rpm, and then it comes on steadily and it is all done while we do our work.
They point out that there are several ways that the tractor can transition from one level to another, and that dpf filter flow restriction is not the only parameter that the computer looks at. The 30 minute limitation also applies to other situations besides those when the inhibit button has been pressed. If the tractor has reached the threshold for a regen, someone might have shut the tractor off or the conditions for regen might not have been met. Then you also have 30 minutes to complete the regen. This means from the sound of several posters comments, you could be part way through an auto regen and if it takes too long to complete due to interruptions etc, a parked regen will be asked for.
Big caveat here: their reply was directed to me and my 2013 L3560. I have just added a B2650 to the menagerie, and the operators manual includes the directions for the B3350, and they are different in many details, so READ YOUR MANUAL! I have no idea what differences there may be in the L-01 tractors either. The B3350 has an entirely different engine from the L's and the softwre has been updated several times. So the manuals may get revised.
All that being said, most of us have never seen PM levels 2 and higher. The light blinks and we increase the rpm, and then it comes on steadily and it is all done while we do our work.
Wow, that's good to see. Usually only see negative comments about this model.
Good thread and lots of good info contributed.
Yes that is all i have seen also, I didn't know about all the negative things about it till after I had purchase it, so far it has been perfect just hope it last, it is a great size tractor
Small enough for my lawn and big enough pasture.
GreensvilleJay
Well-known member
Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,