Freeze plug leaking fix

[jmf78]

Long story on how I got here (will include below for entertainment) but here's the problem. I had to replace a freeze plug on my BX2670. It is now leaking. It's not excessive but I don't want it to become a bigger problem. What can I do to stop the leak? Would rather not replace the plug again unless that is absolutely what I should do.

I went to the autoparts store and the guy there told me to go with high temperature rtv red silicone so I bought some. Is this correct or should I go another direction?

How I got here:
I went to the dealership that sold me the tractor to get a block heater. When I got home and opened the box it was a press in block heater. I didn't think this was right so emailed the dealership with pictures. The next day after no reply I called the dealership. After explaining everything and telling him that I was pretty certain it should be a thread in type he assured me that I just just knock out the freeze plug and press this heater in. After that I thought, well, he should know better than me. So I knocked out the freeze plug (That took over and hour) and go to insert the block heater. Not only is the diameter of the hole too big for the heater, the element hits the internal wall of the block.

Time to call the dealership. He was baffled. Swore up and down it was the correct heater then told me I must be missing and adapter. As I was just about to leave for the dealership I get a call from them. They want to call Kubota and make sure of some things and will call me back. Two hours later I call them to see if they found anything out. Yup! Kubota confirmed it should be the threaded style block heater. Nice!! So they ordered me a new block heater and even offered me a new freeze plug at no charge. Very cool.

And thats how i got here. Now....2 months later I'm finding the freeze plug is leaking. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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[Dave_eng]

I have had great success using Loctite 515 on the plug before installing it.
http://www.loctite.sg/sea/content_data/93791_515EN.pdf

Amazon sells it: https://www.amazon.com/LOCTITE-Gask...F8&qid=1476572832&sr=8-2&keywords=loctite+515

My experience is that it is best to get another plug, clean the block opening thoroughly finishing up with a degreaser like brake clean on both the block and the new plug. Once dry apply the 515 and give it some time to cure.

The cure is anaerobic so it will cure in the tiny crevasses where there is no oxygen. The extruded amounts will stay goo like for a while but this does not mean the tight fitting areas are the same.

Applying silicone on the outside will not work as the cooling system pressure when hot will just push the silicone out of the way allowing the leak to continue.

Try dealing with Messicks and you will get much more knowledgeable info.

Dave M7040

 

[jmf78]

Dave,

Thanks for the feedback. I will go ahead and get a new plug and the 515. I've read a few places that a brass plug is recommended so I'll probably go that route.

Thanks again,
Joe

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[armylifer]

I agree with Dave. Any fix short of replacement is just temporary and will cause more problems later on. I know that it is a lot of work but do it correctly once and you will be much happier in the end.

 

[jmf78]

I agree with Dave. Any fix short of replacement is just temporary and will cause more problems later on. I know that it is a lot of work but do it correctly once and you will be much happier in the end.

I'm on board. I'm all for doing it right.
Any recommendations on where I can find the part number as well as to pick up the part? I suppose the kubota dealership would be easiest. Just checking.
Thanks

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[Dave_eng]

Dave,

Thanks for the feedback. I will go ahead and get a new plug and the 515. I've read a few places that a brass plug is recommended so I'll probably go that route.

Thanks again,
Joe

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Joe
The reference to brass plug would be referring to a plug with male pipe threads on it. I assume you are not referring to this type of plug when describing the leak you have. Correct?

In third world countries, they can only afford water as a coolant and corrosion is a big issue hence the brass recommendation. In your case using fresh anti freeze (every two years) which contains corrosion inhibitors steel plugs work just fine.

Another point, not to be critical but rather to enhance your knowledge. The "freeze plug," you are referring to is correctly called a core plug. It exists to get all the sand casting material out of the block after the molten metal has solidified. These plugs will not protect an engine block from serious damage if the coolant freezes.

Messicks would be my first choice for knowledgeable parts service
www.messicks.com
Parts Hotline: 877-260-3528 tool free number

This link may take you to the engine block exploded view for your tractor:
http://www.messicks.com/ku/90312

If it does not then the following images will give you an idea of the wealth of info they have.

Looking on the Messick site I found this picture of the expansion plug i.e. core plug
http://www.messicks.com/services/im...il=False&w=0&watermark=True&hideIfEmpty=False
Dave M7040

 

[jmf78]

Joe
The reference to brass plug would be referring to a plug with male pipe threads on it. I assume you are not referring to this type of plug when describing the leak you have. Correct?

OK. That makes sense. I am not referring to that type of plug. It is a press in plug. Good info.

In third world countries, they can only afford water as a coolant and corrosion is a big issue hence the brass recommendation. In your case using fresh anti freeze (every two years) which contains corrosion inhibitors steel plugs work just fine.

I see. Makes sense.

Another point, not to be critical but rather to enhance your knowledge. The "freeze plug," you are referring to is correctly called a core plug. It exists to get all the sand casting material out of the block after the molten metal has solidified. These plugs will not protect an engine block from serious damage if the coolant freezes.

Dave M7040

OK. Yeah, I've read a few different articles/forums with different names and different reasons for them to be there. Never read anything that said that these plugs won't protect the block from damage from coolant freezing. Good to know that as I was concerned about the plug being permanently set. Makes sense that it's just there to get the sand out.

Thank you for the explanation!

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[jmf78]

Messicks would be my first choice for knowledgeable parts service
www.messicks.com
Parts Hotline: 877-260-3528 tool free number

This link may take you to the engine block exploded view for your tractor:
http://www.messicks.com/ku/90312

If it does not then the following images will give you an idea of the wealth of info they have.

Looking on the Messick site I found this picture of the expansion plug i.e. core plug
http://www.messicks.com/services/im...il=False&w=0&watermark=True&hideIfEmpty=False
Dave M7040

I will check that out. Thank you so much! That looks like the same thing just a bit smaller
I will give them a call to make sure I'm ordering the right part. I've read great reviews on Messicks.

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[D2Cat]

Dave_eng, you mention, "Another point, not to be critical but rather to enhance your knowledge. The "freeze plug," you are referring to is correctly called a core plug. It exists to get all the sand casting material out of the block after the molten metal has solidified. These plugs will not protect an engine block from serious damage if the coolant freezes."

Kubota calls those "things" sealing caps! See item #30 in the parts list above.

Here's a picture of one I found leaking on an L2050. Was replacing the clutch when trying to determine the cause of so much moisture on the clutch/pressure plate. Had to be coming from somewhere.

North Idaho Wolfman finally convinced me to remove everything off the back of the block to look for a leak there. There it was!

If I had put that tractor back together without further investigation I would have had to separate it again to solve the problem. Wolfman saved my bacon!!

 

[sheepfarmer]

D2 is the sealing cap the thing in the upper left corner of your first picture? Did that tractor go at all with the other parts looking like that?

 

[jmf78]

Is it possible to seat these plugs too deep? I'm in about 1/8" deeper than the other ones.

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[North Idaho Wolfman]

D2 is the sealing cap the thing in the upper left corner of your first picture? Did that tractor go at all with the other parts looking like that?

Here is what the back of the motor and the sealing cap on the back looks like.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Is it possible to seat these plugs too deep? I'm in about 1/8" deeper than the other ones.

Yes, but at an 1/8 your probably ok.

 

[D2Cat]

Here's a picture of the sealing cap AKA freeze plug. This one is actually located behind the flywheel housing on the back of the engine block.

One picture shows where it was up against the flywheel housing. The sealing cap was not pushed entirely out of the engine. It was leaking though and you can see how far it was moved by frozen water.

http://kpadweb.kubota.co.jp/kpad2/PartsInfo.do?bookCd=100K0322&funcCd=012&figNo=T00500&dispType=2

On item #50 (flywheel housing), on top where the 4 holes are, is the area where the cap is located on the back side of the block.

 

[jmf78]

Yes, but at an 1/8 your probably ok.

Below is a picture of how it's seated. Decent enough? Should I put any of this loctite 515 ourtside of the plug?

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[North Idaho Wolfman]

I would say sorry to tell you this, but get another plug and try again, not so deep the next time!

 

[Dave_eng]

The loctite 515 cures anerobically.

From Wikipedia: Anaerobic means "living in the absence of air", as opposed to aerobic which means "living in the presence of air." Anaerobic may also refer to: Anaerobic adhesive, a bonding agent that does not cure in the presence of air.

To add more outside the tiny gap between the sealing cap or plug cap and block will not cure and remain a sticky mess.

How are you pushing the cap or plug into the block? I find using a large socket and small hammer means the force is evenly distributed around the outer edge of the sealing cap.The small hammer to avoid what has happened where a little too much force resulted in the cap going into the block further than you would prefer.

Dave M7040

 

[jmf78]

I would say sorry to tell you this, but get another plug and try again, not so deep the next time!

I was afraid of that. Unfortunately, I had intended to order two (one for backup) but apparently only ordered one. Just ordered two more from messicks.

The loctite 515 cures anerobically.

From Wikipedia: Anaerobic means "living in the absence of air", as opposed to aerobic which means "living in the presence of air." Anaerobic may also refer to: Anaerobic adhesive, a bonding agent that does not cure in the presence of air.

To add more outside the tiny gap between the sealing cap or plug cap and block will not cure and remain a sticky mess.

How are you pushing the cap or plug into the block? I find using a large socket and small hammer means the force is evenly distributed around the outer edge of the sealing cap.The small hammer to avoid what has happened where a little too much force resulted in the cap going into the block further than you would prefer.

Dave M7040

Yes, I was using a socket and a smaller mallet but someone was talking to me while I was doing it and I guess I wasn't paying enough attention. Obviously. Will be more focused next time. At least I won't have to drain the coolant again.

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