turf vs r4 this dead horse needs a beatin

[NEPA Guy]

50 guys say yes and 50 guys say no, but has anyone had any practical experience with turf tires moving heavy stuff? I had r4's on my previous tractor, but didn't get a chance to really try em out other than snow removal, yet I hear the turfs work better for that purpose alone so, I decided to try the turfs for that reason and the r4's were leaving some deep impressions in my golf course like grass.

My house is centered in about 10 acres of it. Most of my warm weather work is in and around the grass area (70%) So I really want to take care of it. I want to clear some woods and push it back towards a stream that's about 200 feet in and dig a swimmin hole. I also need to cross said stream with the tractor, and take down a lot of dead standing trees for firewood I want to stockpile.

Since parts of my grass are very steep, and although I made it up and down with r'4s it was very "tippy." I read a post about a fellow who had a similar problem here in the forum. When I explained my dilemma to my dealer, he said leave the r4's, don't add spacers, they won't help, or weight the tires because it would tear up the grass even worse.

So despite his advice, I decided to order my new 2650 with turfs and add fluid to them, no spacers. So I'm hoping that will help my stability problem, and add to my snow removal capabilities. The question is will I be able to maneuver and work from the woods with the turfs over the grass in 4x4 mode moving logs and stones and doing digging work in the grass. I'm not even sure how it would take to crossing a light stream.

I'm debating the expensive option of getting an extra set of r4's on the rim to swap em out when I need em. I'd love to hear some real world experience.

Break out yer sticks

 

[ironpony]

well my experience says,
I have turf tires which will do about 90% of what I need to do. I also have R4's that go on for all the other jobs. Now you have to plan ahead because if you go into the woods and clog the tread on the turfs you are stuck, to late to switch them. Luckily I can leave the R4,s on one tractor and have the other with turfs. So if I am heading towards the woods R4s if I am heading towards the lawn turfs. The wife also makes sure because as you stated R4s leave marks in the grass.

 

[85Hokie]

you dealer is incorrect in the statement

" don't add spacers, they won't help"

The 2" spacers I added on my BX was night and day difference......

the only way to understand is to place them on the machine

 

[NEPA Guy]

you dealer is incorrect in the statement

" don't add spacers, they won't help"

The 2" spacers I added on my BX was night and day difference......

the only way to understand is to place them on the machine

I spoke to a local who has bota, he said if I added spacers it would create a weak point. Any truth to that?

It makes logical sense, It's worth a try I imagine, is there a specific brand that most people use? Is it for all four tires? 2" or 4"?

I'll assume just pop the wheels off, and put em on for install. Say how much does a turf/r4 tire weigh including the rim? I read fluid adds 100# to the tire.

If one had to choose in matters of effectiveness, would fluid in the tires be preferable over spacers for stability's sake?

If I decide to get a spare set of r4's for my woods work, I can see myself struggling to swap out weighted turfs.

 

[85Hokie]

I spoke to a local who has bota, he said if I added spacers it would create a weak point. Any truth to that?

It makes logical sense, It's worth a try I imagine, is there a specific brand that most people use? Is it for all four tires? 2" or 4"?

I'll assume just pop the wheels off, and put em on for install. Say how much does a turf/r4 tire weigh including the rim? I read fluid adds 100# to the tire.

If one had to choose in matters of effectiveness, would fluid in the tires be preferable over spacers for stability's sake?

If I decide to get a spare set of r4's for my woods work, I can see myself struggling to swap out weighted turfs.

If you get out there 6+" - I could see the strain......but NOW kubota is selling spacers on new machines - a $300 option on B series - but a 2" will not do any harm whatsoever! The ones I bought were from Bro-tek, and were really nice stuff....cost was about $225 at the time - difference was instant and real.

AS for stability ....spacers will help and fluid will help. The spacers spread the width and fluids keeps the center of the gravity lower, and helps with traction.

AS for which to get ....I really would get both, I think width helps more, but the weight does it too, plus the fact that is places more grip on the ground is a win - win.

I would really get both .......

 

[boz1989]

If you are worried about getting stuck, and already have turf tires, why r4? If you are getting in the mud my first choice would be r1, ag tread, or better yet rice&cane tires.

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[Ramos]

If you are worried about getting stuck, and already have turf tires, why r4? If you are getting in the mud my first choice would be r1, ag tread, or better yet rice&cane tires.

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In my mind, that post makes a good point. The R4's are usually a good compromise between the R1 and turf. Since you already have the turfs for the yard, and snow on hard surfaces, why not go aggressive for the woods with R1's if you are going to have a second set in the wings?

Since we purchased an 1870, we had to choose between R1 and turf. I would have done R4's but that option starts with the 2370. I have been surprisingly happy with the turfs in the dirt so far. However, I don't expect much from them once they are packed with mud.

 

[alansz400]

I am going to vote for chains on the rear tires. For the winter they are 100% better then R4s. My B7500 would go better in 2wd with chains then it would in 4wd without chains and on my small tractors I run them year round with turf tires. I have heard some guys complain about them in the mud but I am very happy with the traction in mud. Putting chains on would be less work and way cheaper then buying new rims and tires.

 

[NEPA Guy]

If you get out there 6+" - I could see the strain......but NOW kubota is selling spacers on new machines - a $300 option on B series - but a 2" will not do any harm whatsoever! The ones I bought were from Bro-tek, and were really nice stuff....cost was about $225 at the time - difference was instant and real.

AS for stability ....spacers will help and fluid will help. The spacers spread the width and fluids keeps the center of the gravity lower, and helps with traction.

AS for which to get ....I really would get both, I think width helps more, but the weight does it too, plus the fact that is places more grip on the ground is a win - win.

I would really get both .......

Thanks for the advice, Since I run with the backhoe all the time, I could take the 300 he was gonna charge me for the fluid and put it towards the spacers. I'll see if the dealer can get the ones blessed by kubota. Do you think the weighted tires would offer that much more stability being that I run with the backhoe full time? Even in winter? I'm just concerned about swapping the weighted tires out by myself if i decide to go for the extra set. I'm not as young as I used to be. With my luck, I'll pop a nut.

 

[NEPA Guy]

In my mind, that post makes a good point. The R4's are usually a good compromise between the R1 and turf. Since you already have the turfs for the yard, and snow on hard surfaces, why not go aggressive for the woods with R1's if you are going to have a second set in the wings?

Since we purchased an 1870, we had to choose between R1 and turf. I would have done R4's but that option starts with the 2370. I have been surprisingly happy with the turfs in the dirt so far. However, I don't expect much from them once they are packed with mud.

I'll agree with you both, I think that's a great idea! I wonder why my dealer didn't think of that?! R1's as an extra set it will be if I decide to pull the trigger.
Thank you!

 

[NEPA Guy]

I am going to vote for chains on the rear tires. For the winter they are 100% better then R4s. My B7500 would go better in 2wd with chains then it would in 4wd without chains and on my small tractors I run them year round with turf tires. I have heard some guys complain about them in the mud but I am very happy with the traction in mud. Putting chains on would be less work and way cheaper then buying new rims and tires.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I read many other guys running turfs in the winter saying they are way better than r4's. I did pick up a set of chains already. I'm actually looking forward to an icy winter so I can put em to the test! lol

 

[procraftmike]

R1's can't be beat in the soft stuff. They don't plug up like turfs do and they have a more aggressive bite than the R4's. I have used both my R1's and my turf tires with chains for snow removal. I believe there is a slight advantage to the turfs with chains over the unchained R1's. But, If I took the chains off, I bet it would be a different outcome.

I too would get a set of R1's over R4's, if you already have turf tires. It would cover a much wider set of conditions for better traction.

 

[Grouse Feathers]

I have a BX2370 with loaded turf tires, according to the operators manual the loaded tires are 125# heavier. I was able to handle the tires myself when installing the spacer. I would expect loading B tires would add significantly more weight than a BX tire. Check your operators manual under tires it should give the loaded weight.

I have seen posts where others use chains in the mud and in the woods, it might be worth a try. Chains would be a lot cheaper than a second set of tires and a lot easier to put on and take off.

If you get spacers some have put them on the front, but you can put a lot of load on the smaller front axle when using the fel and the spacers would be additional stress on the axle.

 

[eng1886trk]

I don't think it's worth buying the extra set of tires/rims. I use a B2150 with turfs in all sorts of conditions (mud, snow, grass) and never had an issue.

My new B2650 has R4s and I haven't really had an issue with them tearing up the grass and it has been rather damp in some areas on my property. I got the R4s for the puncture resistance and better weight carrying capacity, that is all. The rears are also filled. No spacers.

Sure, if you get into mud, they plug up, but the only downside is the mess that is makes with mud flying out of the tired everywhere else you go once you are out of the muddy area.

The only thing I will say is if I'd drive like an idiot, any tire will mess up the grass.


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[NEPA Guy]

I have a BX2370 with loaded turf tires, according to the operators manual the loaded tires are 125# heavier. I was able to handle the tires myself when installing the spacer. I would expect loading B tires would add significantly more weight than a BX tire. Check your operators manual under tires it should give the loaded weight.

I have seen posts where others use chains in the mud and in the woods, it might be worth a try. Chains would be a lot cheaper than a second set of tires and a lot easier to put on and take off.

If you get spacers some have put them on the front, but you can put a lot of load on the smaller front axle when using the fel and the spacers would be additional stress on the axle.

I won't get the tractor for another two-three weeks yet so I dont have the manual to reference. I looked up aftermarket aluminum/steel spacers and how the 2" adds additional stress to the axle. It would also appear from other forums that kubota uses 1.5" spacers. I'm more inclined to stick with the kubota engineered spacers. Although I'm sure the 2" ones would suffice, I'll stay with the oems at least till my warranty runs out.

True the chains may well offer the traction I need without the added expense and the labor. I'll need some more research on that subject or hopefully find someone who already did.

I'm also starting to read about guys who fill tractor tires, who don't, the impact it has purely on subcompacts and I've seen weak front axle mentioned a few times in reference to whether or not have various ballast setups on the B series. Its enough to make my head spin.

At least for now, I'll concentrate on just not tipping the damn thing while getting from point A to point B!

I still wonder just how much more effective say 350#'s of extra, low tire weight would be vs just running with my 850# 11.5 inch ground clearance backhoe? What angle does one have to be on before the tractor tips in either setup with an empty FEL. I'm no physics guru, but someone should math this one up for the books!

 

[Billdog350]

The backhoe can be swung to the opposite side of the tipping to help counterbalance, so its worth even more than just static weight hanging off the back. Assuming you can anticipate a tip and plan accordingly...

That said, back to the orig post on Turf vs R4. I had Turf on my B9200 and I have R4 on my L3710. I loved the turfs to not ruin the lawn, worked great in the snow, and honestly didn't clog up any faster in the dirt than my R4's do. In the mud, my giant R4's load up quickly and are just as useless as my turfs were. I'm sure R1's would be better in deep mud....

So moral of the story, if you have lawn, and/or plan on plowing, turfs will treat you well and work for 90% of your needs. I have been less pleased with my R4's, granted my L3710 is about 4000lbs heavier than my B was.

 

[NEPA Guy]

The backhoe can be swung to the opposite side of the tipping to help counterbalance, so its worth even more than just static weight hanging off the back. Assuming you can anticipate a tip and plan accordingly...

That said, back to the orig post on Turf vs R4. I had Turf on my B9200 and I have R4 on my L3710. I loved the turfs to not ruin the lawn, worked great in the snow, and honestly didn't clog up any faster in the dirt than my R4's do. In the mud, my giant R4's load up quickly and are just as useless as my turfs were. I'm sure R1's would be better in deep mud....

So moral of the story, if you have lawn, and/or plan on plowing, turfs will treat you well and work for 90% of your needs. I have been less pleased with my R4's, granted my L3710 is about 4000lbs heavier than my B was.

Thanks dog, I'll experiment with swinging the backhoe to counterbalance, I can anticipate the areas that would cause me more of a problem.

I went with loaded turf tires, and I've added the 1 3/8's oem spacers to the order. I'll see how the unit responds and hopefully not even need to get the extra set of R1's.

 

[origami]

If you get out there 6+" - I could see the strain......but NOW kubota is selling spacers on new machines - a $300 option on B series - but a 2" will not do any harm whatsoever! The ones I bought were from Bro-tek, and were really nice stuff....cost was about $225 at the time - difference was instant and real.

AS for stability ....spacers will help and fluid will help. The spacers spread the width and fluids keeps the center of the gravity lower, and helps with traction.

AS for which to get ....I really would get both, I think width helps more, but the weight does it too, plus the fact that is places more grip on the ground is a win - win.

I would really get both .......

85Hokie, one question asked by the OP was the one asking whether to put spacers on two or four wheels. I'm new here and face a similar situation to the OP:

1) Property on rolling land there my 2012 BX25 feels less stable than my old '95 B1700, and
2) R4 tires that, at least this time of the year, seem to run a little roughshod over the lawn (more so than the turfs on the B1700).

I'm looking now at adding 2" Bro-tek spacers on the rear wheels but wonder if I should also be ordering the 1.25" (or 1.5") spacers for the front. What are your thoughts here?

 

[Grouse Feathers]

There are no dimensions in the WSM, but looking at the tractor it appears the front axles are about 6" long with about 2" of that cantilevered out past the outside bearing. If you add spacers you increase the bending moment on the axle and the loading on the bearings. The rear axles are longer so there will be a smaller percentage increase of bending moment and bearing loading. I would not add front spacers on a tractor equipped with a front loader, the loading of the front axle loading with a loader can be to great. Without a loader front spacers might be okay.

In any case I am not convinced there would be significant increase in tractor stability with front spacers due to the pivot in the front axle.

 

[Daren Todd]

I had a class on this a while back. Your stability is based on where the center of gravity is on your machine. And is basically a pyramid. One line of the base of that pyramid is your drive axle (rear axle). The other two lines go from each edge of your drive axle (tires) to the pivot point on your front axle forming a triangle. Widening the drive axle increases your stability by lowering the center of gravity and increasing the foot print. Because the front pivots, widening the stance there doesn't increase your stability.


Here's a illustration. Bear in mind that the picture actually depicts a fork lift but the same principals apply.