Dooh!

[William1]

I've got a Troy Bilt Chipper, 10 Hp. I use it about once every three months for about two hours.
Two years ago, I got rid of the belt drive and converted it to a centrifugal clutch and chain drive. Easier to start, quieter and no more belts burning up!
Today, I am chipping away. Seems a little down on power but not a lot. After about 90 minutes, it acted like I switched it off and got a 'Pop' out of the carb. Hmmmm
Check the fuel, good.
Hmmmm
Check the oil, good.
Hmmmm
Try to pull start. Bad. A lot of resistance but not like a sieze, more like tons of compression. Odd
Try again, a single pop through the carb and pull start is yanked from my hand
Hmmmm
Gave up
I suspect a push rod failed or rocker arm failed on the exhaust side.
Not sure what I am going to do. The curious part of me will investigate. The smart side of me will use a near new 13 Hp Briggs Generator engine I have and swap them out.

 

[Tooljunkie]

Sheared flywheel key. Unless its a honda, then flywheel has a key cast into it and broke. Ouch.hence the belt drive. Absorbs shock.

 

[William1]

Sheared flywheel key. Unless its a honda, then flywheel has a key cast into it and broke. Ouch.hence the belt drive. Absorbs shock.

Yeah, that was a first guess but the excessive compression makes me thing otherwise. I know the belt was a shock absorber though similar, older chippers were chain drives. When the engine stopped, there was nothing goting through and no load, I had walked to the pile of sticks to grab a handful as the engine shut down.
Tomorrow, I'll pop the valve cover off and take a look see.

A friend was trying to repair a generator of mine (bad stator) but the wires in the stator are aluminum and pretty much not repairable and a complete generator would be needed to repair it. I have since gotten a 22.5KW Generac for cheap (brand new) and no longer need the old one. I was going to fix it if only the diodes were bad or something. Then I thought about using the engine on my chipper until I realized the shaft on the genset was tapered. My generator guy offered to swap my gen engine for a brand new, in the box 13hp Briggs Entec with a straight shaft he bought in error for another generator.
I'll have an answer tomorrow. I am glad I am in no rush and can resolve this in my own sweet time.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Pull the spark plug and give it a pull, bet full of fuel or possibly oil.

 

[tempforce]

on briggs engines, if the valves need adjusted it's really hard to start. i.e.: excessive compression. adjust the valves and it's easy to pull again...

 

[William1]

Popped the valve cover off, broken exhaust pushrod as I guessed.
Neighbor had a couple on hand, seems to be a common failure point.

Spent the morning at his place, he is a big collector of old gas engines (Hit and miss), probably has a few hundred. Every month there is a big meet of guys from all over the east coast that go for the day, swap parts, run engines.
Phtttttttt....pockapockapockapockapockapockapocka....Phtttttttt......
Some spark, some hot flame. A few miniatures (size of a shoe box) some large (bigger than my BX)

 

[CaveCreekRay]

William,

Just curious: Your Briggs is American made isn't it? Wondered if Briggs had started having their engines made in China. My Troy Bilt chipper has a low-time 25 year-old 8hp that starts on the second pull every time. Love that old beast.

That said, I bought a Westinghouse generator that has a wonderful "Chickenese" motor that was specified by Westinghouse. Supposedly all forged parts. Its around 8 hp and starts on the first or second pull.

Give the Chinese a couple more years and their quality may rival that of Taiwan. Like the Japan of the early 70's, Taiwan was synonymous for "junk." Now, most of the factories there are ISO 9001 or better and most of the high quality hand tools coming from abroad are Taiwanese. Its only a matter of time before Briggs moves off-shore. Thank you NAFTA and Pacific Free Trade Act.

 

[BadDog]

I'm not a fan of Chinese tools, but the truth is they are already making good quality stuff. It's just not the cheap stuff. Like your Westinghouse motor, they can and do make excellent things when they get paid a bit more.

 

[William1]

William,

Just curious: Your Briggs is American made isn't it? Wondered if Briggs had started having their engines made in China. My Troy Bilt chipper has a low-time 25 year-old 8hp that starts on the second pull every time. Love that old beast.

That said, I bought a Westinghouse generator that has a wonderful "Chickenese" motor that was specified by Westinghouse. Supposedly all forged parts. Its around 8 hp and starts on the first or second pull.

Give the Chinese a couple more years and their quality may rival that of Taiwan. Like the Japan of the early 70's, Taiwan was synonymous for "junk." Now, most of the factories there are ISO 9001 or better and most of the high quality hand tools coming from abroad are Taiwanese. Its only a matter of time before Briggs moves off-shore. Thank you NAFTA and Pacific Free Trade Act.

I do not recall the country of origin of the engine. It is an actual GardenWay/Troy Bilt machine, probably 13 years old and about 150 hours on it.
I spoke to a few small engine guys and they all said broken push rods are common. Hench the cost os about $8 for the push rod (aluminum rod with steel ball bearing shaped ends.) They also said another weak point was on the engines that the rocker arm sits on a stud and uses a lock nut. Seems the stud stretches and should be replaced. Mine is a 'improved' version that uses a grade eight bolt.
My engine too, always has stared with a few pulls. The only other fault I have had is with the recoil assy. Rust where the pulley in the blower housing rides, preventing the recoil from well, recoiling. After taking it apart a few times, I finally understood how to wind the spring and install the assy easily. Then the recoil spring broke!. $10 on Amazon and repaired.
I have worn out one set of hammers and keep a half dozen chipper knives sharpened so I only have to set up the sharpener (I use a planer blade sharpener-Makita 8" wet stone) once every few years.
Funny thing about the Troy Bilt chipper, it uses a special ball bearing and seems to be the only user of that bearing. $60 a piece to replace. I spoke to the single manufacturer. Got a sales rep. Cool guy there felt my pain and sent me two for free as a 'Commercial Sales Enticement'. Nice guy.

Had a Winco Genset that I over loaded and burnt out the stator. Engine was in good, thought about using it on the chipper. But then I realized the Gen was a tapered shaft. I traded it with a guy for a brand new LTC/Lauson 414cc engine. Made in China clone, supposedly 12.5 hp. So if the engine on the chipper fails, I have this as a back up.

 

[CaveCreekRay]

Wil,

Interesting.

I had heard a rumor that TroyBilt went out of business in the mid-90's largely out of law suits from their chipper shredders. Not sure if that rumor is true or not. It has more warning stickers on it than any tool I have ever seen. The shredder is particularly scary. The first time you jam something into it without loosening your grip first, it gets your attention.

Tim Allen, the "Tool Time" actor was on a talk show once. He's a "toolie" in real life and he had just bought a TroyBilt. He said that was the "scariest machine" he have ever owned. Guess he wasn't used to it yet.

For me, the shredder is actually not all that handy as it jams up easily with green foliage. I would be happy with a bigger chipper chute. I jam branches, leaves and all in that chute and it eats them without missing a beat. I need to order a new blade for my chipper and get my old one sharpened. Other than that, it looks almost brand new. What a beast.

Ray

 

[D2Cat]

Ray, here's a bit of what happened.

http://support.mtdproducts.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/218/~/garden-way-inc.-bankruptcy-information

 

[David Cockey]

Washington Post article from 2001 about Troy Bilt bankruptcy. Says bankruptcy was due to decline in sales when the economy slowed in 2000, and change in consumer buying. http://billingsgazette.com/business...cle_5a47d381-4671-5403-a8f1-1ed0af4f8396.html

Garden Way, owners of Troy Bilt were in financial difficulty in 1997, four years before the bankruptcy. http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2001/10/01/story5.html

Troy Bilt LLC is owned by MTD. http://pressurewashr.com/how-the-troy-bilt-brand-was-built/

Interesting that MTD did not acquire the chip/shredder line, which may have been due to concerns about liability.

 

[William1]

Wil,

Interesting.

I had heard a rumor that TroyBilt went out of business in the mid-90's largely out of law suits from their chipper shredders. Not sure if that rumor is true or not. It has more warning stickers on it than any tool I have ever seen. The shredder is particularly scary. The first time you jam something into it without loosening your grip first, it gets your attention.

Tim Allen, the "Tool Time" actor was on a talk show once. He's a "toolie" in real life and he had just bought a TroyBilt. He said that was the "scariest machine" he have ever owned. Guess he wasn't used to it yet.

For me, the shredder is actually not all that handy as it jams up easily with green foliage. I would be happy with a bigger chipper chute. I jam branches, leaves and all in that chute and it eats them without missing a beat. I need to order a new blade for my chipper and get my old one sharpened. Other than that, it looks almost brand new. What a beast.

Ray

You feed it like you'd feed a tiger. If a glove gets caught, let the glove go.
You have to watch over stuffing the hopper with wet crap. I've gotten it down to a pretty good science. A big fist full, one hand Of crap and use the plunger. No using two hands (an arm load).

Fresh cut, I often let sit for a few weeks and dry out. Then take my time. I used to accumulate for an entire year then spend all day (several tanks of fuel) running it, making about five years of chips. Now I run it about 2 hours or so every three months, making about a yard of chips at a time. Much less daunting.

Converting it to chain drive really quieted it up though I still wear hearing protection muffs.

Most parts are still available from various suppliers.

I also have the 'Pony' tiller. It is front wheel, rear times, an engage/free wheel trans and you can also remove a drive pin from the wheels to let them move independent of the tiller tines. It also has reverse. Only a 3.5 Hp engine but it is a little beast.

 

[CaveCreekRay]

Thanks D2... That makes more sense. I know their chippers were a big part of their business so maybe the "lawsuit" threat kept them from being supported.

Wil,

A friend gave me a Junior! They used it for a few seasons in their garden and then it sat for about ten years.

Its in excellent shape except nearly every oil/grease seal has started to go. I ordered a complete seal kit for it and will overhaul it when I get time on the schedule. One sad note is the engine: This Tecumseh is a reliable mill that has the nifty reverse output shaft. I did some online research and there are no parts available for that motor and no specified replacement motors for that machine. With reverse inside the motor, even if you found a replacement motor for the machine, I am not sure you would ever get the reverse operating. Bummer, as I know there are a lot of those machines in sheds and garages around the country. I want to make sure this motor gets up and running! It seems to be fairly low-time.

Specifically, I was looking for carb parts. Mine sat for so long I am thinking it might need a few carb bits. The whole carbs are scarce but were still available last I checked.

Its sad to see old American brand names go away like that but I guess that is progress. I also have one of those tiny "Mantis" tillers with a tiny Honda 4-stroke on it. Great little machine and very light. Since I moved recently, I probably won't have a use for the TroyBilt once I get it overhauled!

Ray

 

[William1]

Ray, fortunately, nearly any carb that has a similar bore size will be fine. Those engines are so imprecise, they are tolerant of a lot of mis-matching and not miss a beat.
While I'll never do this on a motorcycle or car, some times you can clear a jet by poking a bit a fishing line through it. Avoid anything metallic as scrating a tiny jet inside can change its' flow.
If you are friends with guys in a auto shop, they may have an ultra sonic cleaner filled with something not too strong like Simple Green. You have to be careful of actual carb cleaners as any nylon parts will become goo.

My triller gets used at least four times a year to till the compost pile of all the grass clippings and leaves. I have multiple piles and cyle them about once every four years. Gorgeous material to add to a garden.

Got the parts today, my neighbor left them in my shop and I stumbled on the bag.
New push rod in, set the valves, I noticed the intake was terribly loose. hmmmmm
Tried to start. Nothing.
Popped the valve cover off. exhaust valve terribly loose. hmmmmmmm 'Do I have a bent valve????' Depressed valve, seems ok.
Reset valve clearances. Engine fired right up.
Took it to my stick pile. It devoured them. Definitely had a lot more power and rev'd higher. I had been thinking the power was down. Loose valves... duh!

My neighbor heard the chipper running and came over. Mentioned to me that the push rods often have to 'settle in' and that I will probably have to tighten them a tiny bit after an hour or so. He told me my 'no run' issue after putting in the new rod was common, that he typically sets them real tight, then leaves the valve cover off, cranks it up, runs it a minute, then does a final adjustment. Makes a little mess but it is the easiest procedure.
Push rods, $1.50 each. Valve cover gasket, $0.80. Under $4.00 repair. Reminds me of 'olden tymes'. Stupid easy to do too.

 

[ShaunBlake]

Ray, fortunately, nearly any carb that has a similar bore size will be fine. Those engines are so imprecise, they are tolerant of a lot of mis-matching and not miss a beat...

Push rods, $1.50 each. Valve cover gasket, $0.80. Under $4.00 repair. Reminds me of 'olden tymes'. Stupid easy to do too.

Aw, man, that was a magic carpet ride back to the 1960s!

Great tips on the little carbs, and made me recall the tip for bolting up a 4-speed tranny to a 350cu tri-power in a '58 Chevvy... pilot bushing was too small and couldn't get the tranny to bolt up. Simple fix: pack the bushing with grease, then pound a pilot-shaft alignment tool in it to drive the busing out. Set the new bushing in place, and use the other end of the tool to seat it. Life was sure easier when you could file your points and gap them!

 

[William1]

Aw, man, that was a magic carpet ride back to the 1960s!

Great tips on the little carbs, and made me recall the tip for bolting up a 4-speed tranny to a 350cu tri-power in a '58 Chevvy... pilot bushing was too small and couldn't get the tranny to bolt up. Simple fix: pack the bushing with grease, then pound a pilot-shaft alignment tool in it to drive the busing out. Set the new bushing in place, and use the other end of the tool to seat it. Life was sure easier when you could file your points and gap them!

I've set many a pilot bushing/friction plate alignment with a finger and no guide tool.

Points, after filing, two thickness of a matchbook cover is about .020". I impressed many a young lady whose car 'broke down' with a little file action from the Swiss Army knife and a matchbook.

 

[ShaunBlake]

I've set many a pilot bushing/friction plate alignment with a finger and no guide tool.

Points, after filing, two thickness of a matchbook cover is about .020". I impressed many a young lady whose car 'broke down' with a little file action from the Swiss Army knife and a matchbook.

You've got it all over me! I never impressed anybody with my auto mechanic skills. Come to think of it, the only time I impressed a girl, it was with how badly my head hurt his fist in my only fist-fight.