D950 powered service rig

[In2trux]

Greetings y'all,
Nice to find this little piece of the internet dedicated to one tough little tractor!

I'm looking for a little or allot of advice on a project that I'm working on,
a '99 IH school bus that I'm converting to a rolling shop.

Why? It was cheap, $2500 on a mechanics lien, low hours and tons of room to do everything I can think of just short of getting a 15 liter suitcase in the back door, for now!
The 444 runs like a top but is a little to big for a power plant to suit me.

My wife and I are truckers, owner/operators with our own DOT / MC authority.
I needed a service vehicle that would encompass all possible needs without breaking the bank. I try to stay out in front of maintenance but it's just not possible to cover all the bases when you're a one man band. The baseline budget is $10k to get it all done but that's not written in stone.

I bought a seized D950 and 5kw gen head last week ($450). I'm going to rebuild it, block up (OEM parts) and install it side board under the floor. My estimate before tearing down the engine, replace crank,2mm over, boil block, new liners,pistons,rings oil pump. Rebuid head, cam, followers,injection pump and injectors, $2500+. I want to do it myself so I know this engine inside out.

I'm looking to run a 2 stage/4 cyl. Kellogg American air compressor off the front spline. 21" flywheel, 175 psi/ 25 cfm, 60 gl storage tank strapped to the other side.
http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/p...compressors-tools/two-stage-10hp-pump-l800004

Overkill? Maybe, but I want to run a 3/4" tire gun or my sand blast rig and or make enough power to run a Miller 212 or charge a battery bank.

I need to find a gear reduction box or pulley at a right angle that will take 1800 rpm of the front crank so not to over speed the compressor since it will be mounted parallel to the frame.
So far I haven't found one for 20 hp diesel application.
I'm not asking much! LOL

I do think it can be done, just not all at once.
If any one engine could do it all the Kubota would be the one!
Someone here must have tried something similar.

Any ideas or feed back is greatly appreciated!
I already know I'm mad but that's because I live in New Jersey and need to get back to Kansas!

 

[coachgeo]

Sorry for the delay in this post showing up on the forum. Our auto Spam catcher seemed to think this post was spam. Have now approved this as NOT spam and now others can respond.

 

[ShaunRH]

You could rig up a PTO spline setup off the crank and just interchange whatever you want to drive with the motor with a PTO shaft arrangement. Obviously it would be running engine RPM's and not standard PTO rpms, so you'd probably want a reminder sticker around it someplace, but that would let you interchange your compressor, welder, etc. safely and with off the shelf parts.

You could also rig up a belt drive system but that's a little more dangerous than PTO but it would let you control gear ratios as a side bonus.

It's something of a 'pick your poison' approach when doing something like this.

 

[In2trux]

You could rig up a PTO spline setup off the crank and just interchange whatever you want to drive with the motor with a PTO shaft arrangement. Obviously it would be running engine RPM's and not standard PTO rpms, so you'd probably want a reminder sticker around it someplace, but that would let you interchange your compressor, welder, etc. safely and with off the shelf parts.

You could also rig up a belt drive system but that's a little more dangerous than PTO but it would let you control gear ratios as a side bonus.

It's something of a 'pick your poison' approach when doing something like this.

Thanks Shaun!
I just spent the last 30 minutes rambling through a reply only to have the server kick me out!
Thinking out loud, I have a 32"w X 32"H X 16' space to work with.
I think I need to find a trans, clutch and bell housing.
Original thought was to find a transfer case out of a jeep or small 4WD pickup.
Tranny and bellhousing that would bolt up to this engine may be a better solution.

Do you know what the pto rpm is?
Being able to clutch through gears might be the best bet. Throttle up or down for load is a plus.
Air compressor requires only 10 HP @ 800 rpm.

 

[Daren Todd]

My new service truck came with a combo unit for compressor/ generator/stick welder. Got to looking at the unit today. They ran a double pulley off the motor, and mounted a 5kw Gen end in between the motor and compressor. One belt runs the generator, the other runs the compressor. Powered by a 19hp Koehler motor. The control panel is pretty intense, but the set up for the motor, compressor and generator was extremely simple.

Good ol fashioned belt drive might be the ticket. Would just need to figure out the size of the pulleys get the correct rpms.

 

[In2trux]

My new service truck came with a combo unit for compressor/ generator/stick welder. Got to looking at the unit today. They ran a double pulley off the motor, and mounted a 5kw Gen end in between the motor and compressor. One belt runs the generator, the other runs the compressor. Powered by a 19hp Koehler motor. The control panel is pretty intense, but the set up for the motor, compressor and generator was extremely simple.

Good ol fashioned belt drive might be the ticket. Would just need to figure out the size of the pulleys get the correct rpms.

Does the unit on your service truck run the generator and compressor at the same time or is there a way to disengage one or the other?

I found a 1:1 right angle gearbox rated for 30 hp that I can run off the front spline of the crankshaft. Looking at different pulley and differential setups for mower decks to engage compressor. 8" pulley should give me th right rpm.

Generator can be wired to switch off field and left direct coupled at flywheel.

This is going to take some time to work out and finish. Putting the idea in to words helps to think through the options.

The simple solution would be just buy a rig like yours. I saw it in the welding thread, very nice! I just wanted to use a diesel since I have a 65 gl tank to draw fuel off.
Thanks for the input!

 

[coachgeo]

Check and see if shaft of the engine has a bearing that can handle side loads. If not you will over time snap the crank. The guys in here familiar with this engine may be able to offer points on this.

Potential Solution Could to be come off that shaft first through a fixed second bearing (quality pillow block?) to carry the side load pressures and then into the pulley. Or you could go thru the pulley and then to a second bearing on other side of it. Thru fixed bearing first is best.

This is a dilemma we had with my D722 Diesel Motorcycle with CVT belt drive. To help take the side loads off the crank; for space reasons we have a stub shaft off the flywheel go thru the CVT primary clutch and then into a bearing we are mounting onto a crash bar that protects the CVT and engine if it gets laid down.

 

[Daren Todd]

Yes, the generator runs at the same time as compressor. I have several toggle switches on the control panel. I'll edit and post some close ups of the panel. It's easier to show

The green button is another toggle switch to turn off the 220 and 110 outlet. I just leave all switches to off when I'm just using the compressor

 

[coachgeo]

My new service truck came with a combo unit for compressor/ generator/stick welder. Got to looking at the unit today. They ran a double pulley off the motor, and mounted a 5kw Gen end in between the motor and compressor. One belt runs the generator, the other runs the compressor. ....

While not a Kubota.... it is similar in size and design.. so question.. did they put anything to help strengthen things since belts put perpendicular side loads onto crank? Been told engines that normally have high side loads; like motorcycles, typically have strong bearings in the engine case to protect their cranks from these side loads, but most our industrial engines; which typically have PTO/transmission sit inline with the crank, do not have these bearings..... just bushings and seals.

Is this off the flywheel side or the other side?

 

[Daren Todd]

More then likely, the engine was already set up for a compressor application. Not sure on this one if they set it up with any extra shaft support. Last one I had, that was on a compressor just had a pulley attached to the shaft.


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[In2trux]

Thanks guys!
I don't think side load would be a problem.
This is what I'm thinking,
Front of crank has splined shaft, install pto shaft with slip joint, connected to 7/8 keyed shaft inline to right angle gear box.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/361141516333?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
This should not create side load,No?

9" pulley off right angle, 95" belt to 21" compressor pulley, 770 rpm with engine running @ 1800.
I could buy a Miller 250 Bobcat (722 Kubota) diesel for $8300 new but no compressor but I don't want it running 3600 rpm!
Turn key but still doesn't resolve my air demand.

Nobody offers a 25 cfm compressor.

I still think I can make this happen, withinn budget and get higher performance.
Going to pickup my steel tomorrow to box out engine, redo floor and cross members.
One day at a time!

Thanks again!

 

[coachgeo]

Thanks guys!
I don't think side load would be a problem.....

Right angle drive should have zero side load if it is bolted down properly. For some reason I was thinking you were doing Right Angle box on one fan side of engine and a pulley with belt on Flywheel side (one end for Genset and other for Compressor.) Non Gear box side is the one I was concerned on about getting any side loads.

Does the rotation direction change going thru the Right Angle box (CW to CCW or Visa Versa)? Is the Gen. head and compressor spec's for rotation match whatever rotation you'll end up with? Believe the the D950 at the front is CW rotation

 

[In2trux]

Right angle drive should have zero side load if it is bolted down properly. For some reason I was thinking you were doing Right Angle box on one fan side of engine and a pulley with belt on Flywheel side (one end for Genset and other for Compressor.) Non Gear box side is the one I was concerned on about getting any side loads.

Does the rotation direction change going thru the Right Angle box (CW to CCW or Visa Versa)? Is the Gen. head and compressor spec's for rotation match whatever rotation you'll end up with? Believe the the D950 at the front is CW rotation

That's one thing I wasn't thinking about, gear box changing rotation.
The box I bought is 1;1 CW to CW.

I'm pushing to get everything mocked up in the next few weeks. Engine will be mounted on 3/8 steel plate, grade 8 bolts, 2 1/2" box tubing crossmembers to replace the dozen rotten ones that are under ther floor now to box in side compartments should be more than enough to hold everthing in place.

Once It get things in place I'll post a few pictures.

 

[ShaunBlake]

Why design it to require a right-angle drive? Since it's your own design, it seems you could set it up to straight-drive the compressor (on the other side, right?) and belt-drive to the genset, beside the engine. (Or vice-versa, if I got it backwards.)

Not saying right-angle differentials aren't any good, but they do cost $$$ and HP, as well as being a weak link in many systems. My understanding is they are only employed when there is no alternative.

 

[In2trux]

The right angle drive was not my first choice. Compressor only needs 10 hp so even spinning the generator it should handle the load ok.
I'm mounting everything on the frame rails under the floor, 1 to keep it outside, 2 too conserve space inside. Space is 30x30"x 16', long and narrow. Still have to watch ground clearance.
Picked up my steel, ready to start cutting and welding tomorrow!