Loss of power...would it be....?

[Rich_S]

Hi Everyone,

ok, I realise this is all about - "how long is a piece of string", but wanted your opinion.

I have a B2100 with 1300 hrs on it which has been regularly serviced, BUT...I have loss of power when I use the deck for cutting grass longer than about 3inches or head up hills etc. The rear PTO does the same when I use a flail. This has been getting worse day by day.

I have asked the dealer repeatedly to look into this and the latest effort has been to clean the injectors, with absolutely no discernible change.

What has been done:
new air, fuel filters, oil

we have put in new fuel, check for air locks and water...

Q1: I have a hydraulic leak - not a bad one but it's in two places - both towards the front of the tractor and also just in front of the cab. The garage is not unduly concerned, but I wondered if this might affect the power of the drive to the deck mount and rear PTO, or does this have nothing to do with it? I also noticed that dropping anything down at the rear is very jerky and difficult to control - dropping being the operative word, rather than placing!! - would this be down to any hydrostatic fluid leak or is it something I need to adjust? They want to charge me a huge amount of money to sort the leaks as it means many man hours of work.

Q2 they also suggested that I change the diesel pump - would this have any effect on power?

Q3 is this to be expect from a tractor of this age and can one do some form of engine rebuild to give it back it's original power?

Thanks for any help!!

R.

 

[ShaunRH]

Describe loss of power...

Motor stalls/lugs
RPM's stay same but just doesn't perform the same at the RPM's that you are used to
Motor churns fine but gear slows down

First two could be fuel starvation, so if the fuel system has been gone through and thoroughly cleaned, yeah, it can be a weak pump.

Last one is usually a transmission issue. Clutch or hydraulic pump, or other internal problem that won't let it perform correctly.

 

[Rich_S]

Describe loss of power...

Motor stalls/lugs
RPM's stay same but just doesn't perform the same at the RPM's that you are used to
Motor churns fine but gear slows down

First two could be fuel starvation, so if the fuel system has been gone through and thoroughly cleaned, yeah, it can be a weak pump.

.

The motor slows down and stalls - I have to put the clutch in to prevent - lots of black smoke from the engine as it labours

Is changing a fuel pump particularly complicated (you can guess that i am a novice...)?

 

[Daren Todd]

Usually on a mechanical fuel pump it's just a matter of disconnecting the fuel lines, and removing a couple of bolts. Depending on how it's set up, you may need hands the size of a ten year old to get a bolt or two back in

electrical fuel pump, it's a matter of disconnecting the fuel lines and a bolt or two plus the wires which are usually a quick connect. Sometimes you'll get one missing the quick connect or wrong style quick connect. Then it's a matter of metering the wires and figuring out which is power or ground. And hooking them up with a couple butt slices. If it's a single wire, then it grounds through the frame.

It's really not to difficult as long as you take your time

 

[Rich_S]

Usually on a mechanical fuel pump it's just a matter of disconnecting the fuel lines, and removing a couple of bolts. Depending on how it's set up, you may need hands the size of a ten year old to get a bolt or two back in

electrical fuel pump, it's a matter of disconnecting the fuel lines and a bolt or two plus the wires which are usually a quick connect. Sometimes you'll get one missing the quick connect or wrong style quick connect. Then it's a matter of metering the wires and figuring out which is power or ground. And hooking them up with a couple butt slices. If it's a single wire, then it grounds through the frame.

It's really not to difficult as long as you take your time

sounds good...think I can manage that. Now I just need to find out how much and where I can get a new fuel pump... and brace myself for it not making any difference!!

 

[ShaunRH]

The motor slows down and stalls - I have to put the clutch in to prevent - lots of black smoke from the engine as it labours

Is changing a fuel pump particularly complicated (you can guess that i am a novice...)?

If it's pumping black smoke, it's getting plenty of fuel as that's unburned fuel.

If you've maintained the air intake system (new filters, etc.) then what you are left with is: loss of compression (did the dealer test this?), implements need maintenance (they are drawing more work out of the engine due to wear and tear), or a fuel issue like water/old fuel/etc.

If it were my unit, I'd have the fuel pump tested to see if it still meets spec.

While that was being tested I'd go through my implements and do full maintenance on them, as well as cleaning out my fuel tank and getting some treated, new, fuel in it.

Sounds to me like your gear just needs some TLC, maybe some new lines and such. Call it a micro overhaul, and put it back in service.

 

[Rich_S]

If it's pumping black smoke, it's getting plenty of fuel as that's unburned fuel.

If you've maintained the air intake system (new filters, etc.) then what you are left with is: loss of compression (did the dealer test this?), implements need maintenance (they are drawing more work out of the engine due to wear and tear), or a fuel issue like water/old fuel/etc.

If it were my unit, I'd have the fuel pump tested to see if it still meets spec.

While that was being tested I'd go through my implements and do full maintenance on them, as well as cleaning out my fuel tank and getting some treated, new, fuel in it.

Sounds to me like your gear just needs some TLC, maybe some new lines and such. Call it a micro overhaul, and put it back in service.

you would think that dealer would look at compression wouldn't you?? I have to say that I am less than impressed with them. I have used them twice but I think that's the end of the line for me with them as all I get is large bills and not a lot else. Sadly I am in the middle of nowhere and they are the nearest (40miles) Will see if I cannot get someone local to do a compression test. Fuel should be fine as it's a new fill. I will see if I cannot take the tank out and clean it too, just in case.

thanks for the help...I feel like the only way to deal with this is to work my way through the fuel system myself and change everything to do with the fuel side, then keep my fingers crossed that this works....I just wish that there was an obvious fix.

 

[ShaunRH]

You can try to get an inexpensive compression test kit from Harbor Freight. They are usually good for the shade tree mechanic sorts. I'm not sure if they have a fitting for Kubota engines though, I don't know what the threading is on the injectors.

 

[D2Cat]

Rich_S
1st Yr. Apprentice

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: SW France
Equipment: B2100
Posts: 14

Probably no HF there. Local diesel mechanic would be a good choice.

 

[maxvolk]

hi have you tried a lower gear?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I would start with adjusting the valves and check the compression, then work back to the Injection pump and injectors.

I'm betting that when the dealer said fuel pump they meant injection pump and not the fuel lift pump.

You would need to pull the pump and the injectors and have both of them tested and rebuilt by a diesel injection service shop, sorry don't know what that shop would be called in France.

Valves out of adjustment can do all the things you are experiencing.

Q1: I have a hydraulic leak - not a bad one but it's in two places - both towards the front of the tractor and also just in front of the cab. The garage is not unduly concerned, but I wondered if this might affect the power of the drive to the deck mount and rear PTO, or does this have nothing to do with it? I also noticed that dropping anything down at the rear is very jerky and difficult to control - dropping being the operative word, rather than placing!! - would this be down to any hydrostatic fluid leak or is it something I need to adjust? They want to charge me a huge amount of money to sort the leaks as it means many man hours of work.

Q2 they also suggested that I change the diesel pump - would this have any effect on power?

Q3 is this to be expect from a tractor of this age and can one do some form of engine rebuild to give it back it's original power?

Thanks for any help!!

R.

A1 there is a speed adjustment for the 3 point, it should be under the seat.

A2 See above note.

A3 No it's not to be expected, I have several tractors with way more hours and they still have a ton of power.

 

[Rich_S]

hi have you tried a lower gear?

errrr......

I am in low ratio with revs set at max.....

gears are not something that I am aware as having on my B2100!!

 

[Rich_S]

I would start with adjusting the valves and check the compression, then work back to the Injection pump and injectors.

I'm betting that when the dealer said fuel pump they meant injection pump and not the fuel lift pump.

Yes, I think there may well be a case of "lost in translation" will check back with them.

A1 there is a speed adjustment for the 3 point, it should be under the seat.

A2 See above note.

A3 No it's not to be expected, I have several tractors with way more hours and they still have a ton of power.

thank you for your very helpful answer, will look into an injector rebuild, although the garage supposedly charged me for an injector "clean" and would assume that they would have notified me if they though anything else was wrong....But then again probably not, as they seem to do very little above and beyond....And the fact is that the tractor still has no power after said cleaning.

 

[Rich_S]

....then work back to the Injection pump and injectors.

are there injection pumps for each injector? (I'm obviously not a mechanic )

 

[bh115577]

One injection pump feeds all the injectors. Check your private messages for some tech info.

 

[Rich_S]

One injection pump feeds all the injectors. Check your private messages for some tech info.

You are a star!! thank you and really appreciate the help. Just had a quote for a new injector pump of £572 including tax (870 USD) which is scarily expensive....i'm going to have to find someone who can rebuild if this turns out to be the problem.

 

[Geonious]

I have a B2100 with 1300 hrs on it which has been regularly serviced, BUT...I have loss of power when I use the deck for cutting grass longer than about 3inches or head up hills etc. The rear PTO does the same when I use a flail. This has been getting worse day by day.

Hi Rich. I know this is an old post. But, I wanted to chime in on this thread because I just suffered from the exact issue you were experiencing. I noticed my B2100 with 1500hrs has been bogging down slightly some years ago when I would mow up a steep hill. I would go slower to keep the RPMs @ 2500. Lately that bog has gotten worse. And the other week I was having issues mowing. I would go in reverse to turn around and move forward and the tractor would bog like it hit 3ft grass. I would have to put the clutch in to recover and then go slowly. This past week I couldn't even get two passes without it stalling. It only happened when the mowing PTO was engaged, and I would move forward. I figured it was hydraulic. I have a slow leak that I noticed recently. Maybe air got into the line? I was a little low on fluid but still an acceptable level. Not knowing what it was I was figuring how to get the tractor to the service center 30 miles away. And I was seeing my tax return leaving my hands to pay the bill.

I have also been chasing a starting issue for some time. The tractor wouldn't start many times until I kept turning the ignition key quickly until it cranked over. I replaced the ignition switch. It improved a little but didn't solve it. I also had a battery drain happening. I replaced the battery cables. Cleaned the grounding area. Improved things but didn't solve it. I bought a solar panel trickle charger to help combat that until I found the root cause. I replaced the dynamo and that improved things but didn't solve the starting issues and every now and then the tractor would suddenly stall while mowing. I also bought a rectifier/regulator, but I procrastinated swapping it out. Last week when the tractor was all out of sorts, I decided to finally change the rectifier after I checked all the safety switches. Cleaned all the electrical terminals. I got it swapped out and I turned the key and first turn BAM!! Ignition! It rarely did that and only after it was on the trickle charger. To test. I turned it off and let it sit for a few minutes. Turned the key...BAM! Ignition! Never ever did it do that since I owned the tractor. I took it for a mowing pass. Engaged the mowing deck and proceed to cut a full pass and back. Then it ended up being 15 passes. Not a stutter in RPMs at all! Final test was going up the septic hill. I picked the steepest part. Went up the hill without it dropping any RPMs!!! SUCCESS!!!

Hopefully you got your B2100 up and running again. If not, try replacing the rectifier. It's $25 on flea bay and it just might solve your issue like it did mine! Oh, and my head lights are nice and bright again! (o)(o)

Update: I didn't connect the trickle charger all week. It usually takes a day or two and the battery will be dead. I decided to go out and give it a go. I turned the key and first turn BAM! Ignition. No battery drain! My last task for this season is to fix the hydraulic leak.