Too Steep for Orange BX25 Love?

[D2Cat]

You state your lack of control here, what else do you need?

"My biggest issue was the safety switch in the seat. In order to keep the engine running, I needed to put my left foot on the loader arm to keep myself back in the seat. Works great, but prevents you from pressing the already difficult to reach rear diff lock."

Do you think rolling is the only problem?

When your machine slams into a tree where will you end up?

 

[Bank Walker]

I keep reading this post from start to finish, trying to understand why?
Why do you want the path wider? If the retaining walls need to be replaced, you might consider something different than a BX25D. Can you get this machine or material needed to the bottom of the hill and start there, working your way up? I admit I have done my fair share of unsafe acts but I fell like an old man telling someone to get down before you fall and break something. Yes, I too think it could flip forward or to the side easily.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Flienlow, I guess I am coming at this from the point of view of someone who likes to garden, but I hate to see you tearing out healthy plants that someone else has taken a lot of trouble to put in and whose roots are holding the slope. Am wondering why you need a gravel path going straight down the slope? With or without switchbacks? Seems like that would be a recipe for erosion. You might be trying to make this property into something it's not meant to be. Most of us were just drooling over it just the way it was in that part of your backyard. I guess I'd want to focus on remodeling the house and getting stuff up to the road which sounded like a big enough problem, before taking out retaining walls and plants holding the slope to the lake.

 

[Daren Todd]

Ditto on the last two posts. Most contractors doing that kind of work will use an extended reach trackhoe and lay the stuff in. And attach a cable to a tracked skid steer to get it down to a lower step to work. Most folks will tell you your crazy for what your doing. I've fetched numerous pieces of equipment out of ponds, lakes and such that had milder banks then the one your working on. Couple of folks have died in the process cause they either got stuck and drowned or crushed by the equipment. Got a good friend that had to learn how to walk again after his pelvis was crushed by a rops. Required both hips to be replaced!!

Then on top of it, you have a piece of equipment that could potentially end up going into the water running. Costs around $8k to 10k to get a motor gone through afterwards. Then EPA fines for any oil and diesel that ended up in the water. Recovery costs, which usually will double or triple when the state steps in and makes you use there "approved" contractor.

Your playing Russian roulette with your future and your family's my friend. And seeing those pics scares the daylights out of me

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Flienlow,
What gets me is how you came on here and asked everyone if they thought it was too steep, and everyone said yes too steep and dangerous, and you still chose to disregard it.
I'm sorry to say this, but are you just that stubborn or have a big red S on your underroos and think your beyond experience and the laws of physics.

You have already stated that your doing reverse wheelies to get up the hill and that you've had to winch it to get it back up the hill. Both are severe indicators that your doing something that you shouldn't be doing!

You asked D2cat what's going to happen, here is my prediction.
I would say the ground is going to give out, and/or you'll lose traction and either it's going to run away down the hill or it's going to slide sideways and all heck is going to break loose!
Please take video of it as #1 your surviving parties will be able to sell it for a safety video on what not to do!

I'm really holding back what I really think but sadly I think Darwinism is going to take effect at any moment! and that will be a sad waste of a good tractor.

For others out there reading this, DO NOT DO THIS!!! It's just a matter of time before it will get you or someone else seriously injured or killed!

 

[olthumpa]

Why do we bang out heads against a wall
Because it feels so good when we stop.

My head is sore from reading this thread.

 

[OldeEnglish]

It was a dead giveaway for me that this feller is in over his head when I saw him trying to figure out an angle with a digital meter. It's kinda like a green horn that doesn't know how to read a tape measure and brings in a digital one but still can't cut the right length ....

I would like to add something about retaining walls for anyone thinking of building their own....there is a science behind it and takes a lot of experience to build one properly and not have it fall down...HGTV makes it look real easy but in all reality it's not! This guy bit off a lot more than he could even think about chewing, and it will bite him in the ass HARD.

I'm not one to put anyone down and always admire someones will to do something. One has to come out of the smoke cloud and realize there are some things left up to professionals that do this type of work for a living. If it was that easy, everyone and their mother would be doing it. This is one of the most stu stu stupidest thing I have ever seen.

Please post some pictures of the aftermath when you get some of those heavy Washington rain storms so everyone can see what not to do!

 

[Daren Todd]

It was a dead giveaway for me that this feller is in over his head when I saw him trying to figure out an angle with a digital meter. It's kinda like a green horn that doesn't know how to read a tape measure and brings in a digital one but still can't cut the right length ....

Do you mean something like this??

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[Apogee]

As someone who worked in the Engineering Division of the King County Building Department for years, I have seen MANY slopes slip after work like this. As mentioned above, BEFORE you continue "improving" the slope I'd STRONGLY recommend consultation with a Geotech.

Sorry, but given the history of the area and the type of soil I see in the pics, I CAN'T fathom why you're being stubborn and insisting on doing this without careful planning. Then again, it's always interesting to see the results on the news... Not being negative, I've just have seen it happen more than once.

I'll never forget the guy I warned on Lake Sammamish about doing something like this. He was an attorney and was very cocky. A couple of weeks later, I was called to the site because there was a huge sediment plume in the lake and of course helicopters were shooting footage for the evening news. It was on every channel and the guy received huge fines... Served him right! LOL!

Depending on the size of the lake, you also likely need a shoreline permit and will be fined if Sno County finds out about the work being done without a permit or engineering review. I think the setback is 200' from the high water mark...

Also, in the middle pic you posted, if you look carefully the bottom 6' or so of the tree, it is leaning downhill. The tree corrected itself over time and continued growing vertically. WHY DO YOU THINK THE BOTTOM OF THE TREE WAS LEANING TOWARDS THE LAKE? Think it was an accident or it was planted crooked? HMMMMMM..... I'll give you hint - UM, NO. Trees do that WHEN THEY'RE HOLDING BACK A SLOPE THAT HAS MOVED!

I hope it all goes well and you achieve what you're trying to do without getting hurt. That is most important.

Don't say you haven't been warned regarding the other stuff. You must have lots of money...

Stay safe!

Steve

 

[OldeEnglish]

Do you mean something like this??

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Math is one way to do it with pulling measurements and calculations, but more on the difficult side. Easiest way is a 2x6 standing up on its side, speed square which is also a protractor, and a torpedo level. Level out the speed square with the pivot point on the top of the 2x6, and wallah you found your angle.

I used little orange instead of a 2x

Speed square never lies as long as your level is good!

 

[tcrote5516]

First off, I don't claim to know what I'm doing but I can tell you what I did and how diffucult it was. Based on the pictures it would appear that my front yard slope is less than half of what you have going on there. I know my slope doesn't look like much in these pictures but it doesn't take much to make a loaded tractor roll. I had a bunch of red rot 100ft pines removed and was left with a mess of rock/small trees/grading and drainage issues. I tackled it with my BX and it was a scary experiance at times. I lost count over how many times I picked up one or sometimes both of the rear wheels and only a combination of equal parts quick reaction and luck kept me upright. If my hill was ANY worse no amount of skill or luck would have saved me. Oh...and my target was only a 2ft deep stream, not a lake.

In all seriousness, you are asking for a disaster with the pitch of that worksite and it's not an if but a when you slip up and roll it.

Even if you do get what you want done, the runoff coming down a pitch like that will get scary fast. The power of gravity scary but the power of gravity and water will relocate your house in a heartbeat. I had a hell of a time keeping my topsoil in place and even had issues with areas I used stone on to help hold it together.

No one here is trying to be a buzzkill, we all like to do everything ourselves but you got to know when to walk away and call a insured professional with the right equipment.

 

[lakebota]

I think of two phrases: angle of repose and retaining wall surcharge. I'm pretty sure there a few here that know about it.
That site should have both grading permit and building permit, as well as any other regulatory agencies approvals. OP has not stated if he has any.I am curious who is running the camera for him and if they are aware of the inappropriate approach to this project.
I'm among others (but not as bold) that are calling out this operators tactics, both on this board and on his property.
I do find it odd a guy asks what people think on a public forum. I know many touch the plate at restaurants when a server says "very hot". THis can be much more severe.
This topic is rather like an accident on the freeway, hard to not look, but not much one can do.

 

[olthumpa]

Do you mean something like this??

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A squared plus B squared = C squared

Nope, don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Flienlow]

The question I posed before I bought the tractor was "Too Steep for Orange BX25 Love?"

The Answer to that questions is....yes.

We made it down the slope yesterday (or at least the steepest part.) We stopped at an area that will really need to be filled in order to proceed further. Did the tractor go back up the slope? yes it did, however in order to make this path feasible it would need more than just gravel and will quickly grow beyond the scope of what I want. If this was say a B7100 with big lug AG tires, it might of been easier to do, however as you all are painfully aware the slope is sill very steep.

All is not lost, I have a path to back side of my house for ingress of hot tub,and can start fixing foundation drainage among other things.

From my perspective the tractor operation was anticlimactic. There was no slipping, sliding, or out of control. More like just a loss of traction when trying to go back up. The machine would just spin and dig in. I will say that bucket down hill is the safest, and if I didn't have the hoe on, it would not be a good idea to go up that steep of a slope with FEL only.
I share this merely to chronicle my experience. I am not looking for praise or accolades. In no way do I advocate ANYONE trying this. And it is very fair to say the responces to this post and been filled with sage advice.
I have been operating these type of tractors since 1978 when granddad first turned me loose on the his craftsman riding mower. I say this not to justify it as being a wise choice, but to merely say that it wasnt done without significant seat time.

 

[ShaunRH]

Slope is very easy to calculate using trig, but it's easier with the inclinometers being shown. A decent 4' level and roofing square can tell you slope in seconds. There are lots of tools that will tell you slope, but the one that matters most is what you are feeling.

If the tractor feels loose, then you are too steep. If it scares you, stop doing it.

I'd hate to see anyone get hurt and I am not going to get all over the OP's case here, people do what they do, it's their lives. However, it takes a lot of either arrogance or ignorance to override what your common sense and a whole board of people are telling you. Please reconsider doing something like this and take our warnings as they are intended, to save the life of a fellow Kubota owner!

 

[lakebota]

I am not speaking on behalf of anyone but myself.
You recently joined and bought a compact kubota and asked a forum composed of users and mechanics about the capability of the equip on your site. You got good advice and plodded on professing your abilities and in a manner some may consider thumb-nosing. You've quickly learned the honesty and helpfulness of the membership here (that may likely collectively exceed your experience several hundred-fold).
You now write how you have discovered the limits of your new equipment exceeds your needs. Seems if you heeded the sites offerings, you'd be a richer man, with, perhaps, a piece of equipment suitable for your projects.
In closing, do look up the two phrases I wrote above and think about why the walls on the site failed.

 

[Flienlow]

I am not speaking on behalf of anyone but myself.
You recently joined and bought a compact kubota and asked a forum composed of users and mechanics about the capability of the equip on your site. You got good advice and plodded on professing your abilities and in a manner some may consider thumb-nosing. You've quickly learned the honesty and helpfulness of the membership here (that may likely collectively exceed your experience several hundred-fold).
You now write how you have discovered the limits of your new equipment exceeds your needs. Seems if you heeded the sites offerings, you'd be a richer man, with, perhaps, a piece of equipment suitable for your projects.
In closing, do look up the two phrases I wrote above and think about why the walls on the site failed.

I am not sure how else to say this, so let me just say that I appreciate all of the concern. But having said that,. The posted comments are far more nerve racking than driving a tractor a total of 30 feet of the slope.
If you don’t want to operate your tractor on a steep slope, don’t do it. No thumb-nosing anyone.

I bought the right machine for me. No it’s not a track hoe, or skid steer. But it will work for what I need it for.

As far as surcharge, and angle of repose? This post isn’t about building a wall, It was about getting a machine downhill to start building the wall.

 

[Flienlow]

WELL... Time for an update. (And it has been a while.) Tonight I finally concurred my nasty hill. (sort of) After a year, a bunch of dirt, gravel, buying a 4x4 Quad and extreme patients, I got my tractor down the hill to the lake.
I decided to buy a cheap quad to "beat" a trail in. I use it to haul boat gas, beer, and my fat @$$ up and down the hill. It's also great to cruise to the neighbors house ect.

As far as the slope, I created an "S" type trail instead of going straight down or using the switch backs which were way to narrow. The big win was when my neighbor needed to dig out underneath his house to fix the poorly built foundation. He hauled out about 12 yards of fantastic fill dirt and put it in a very low spot. After that I used the quad for several days going up and down and finally built up enough nerve to get the tractor out. (I was also prompted by my buddy who is a 4x4 nut and loves this kind of thing.) The BX went down the hill without issue which was never my concern. Going back up was a much different story First I blew the bead on the front tire.we got that fixed pretty quickly. Then we also found a drainage pipe and broke it as it was only 2 inches from the surface ( tomorrows project.) Then there was getting back up the hill. It drops off pretty steep after the fill area and we spent the most time, driving up spinning out and then back down and trying again. After numerous attempts we made it back up. Now I will need to move the trail over to avoid the pipe, and imports some more fill and tune the trail some more. Since I have several more pressing projects, this will go on the back burner until I get time. I probably wont start my retaining walls until next year anyway.

 

[Kubota_Man]

Very nice place you have there. A BX will move a mountain it will just take a bit longer.

 

[Flienlow]

Very nice place you have there. A BX will move a mountain it will just take a bit longer.

Thank you, It's a work in progress for sure.