Dealer Damaged Wheels

peterp

New member

Equipment
L4330, B9200, Harley Rake, York Rake, BH90, BB60, Grapple, Timberwolf 3pt Split.
Oct 27, 2014
21
0
0
West Stockbridge MA
I purchased a used B9200 (222 hrs) in exceptional condition except both the front and rear wheels were loaded and had some rust. I contacted my local dealer about dismounting the tires (turf) and disposing of the ballast so I could refinish the rims and then have the dealer reinstall with Rimguard. Dealer called and I went over to pick the rims up yesterday and 3 of the 4 rims are damaged due to dismounting. One front wheel is bent 1" eggshape, other front center bent 3/8", one rear rim (13.6-16 tire) looks like they beat on it with a sledgehammer most likely servicable but dented pretty good around the edge. The tech thought he could straighten the bad front wheel with an excavator! I've kept my cool so far, but the Service Manager is not stepping up to the plate regarding replacing all three rims only the one front rim with a used rim off another tractor, stating he can straighten the other 2. I am not happy with this. I am prepared to work with the dealer on cost sharing for new rims, but the Service Manager does not want to hear it. He is trying to save me money by "keeping this under the radar". So here is the question, what should the dealer and I do. Note: my rims still have the original stickers on them.
 

hodge

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John Deere 790 John Deere 310 backhoe Bobcat 743
Nov 19, 2010
2,903
450
83
Love, VA
Do not accept anything less than what you brought in. You didn't bring them damaged rims, and their responsibility, at the least, is to return them in the shape that they got them. The only thing he wants to keep under the radar is the bad work. You are not being unreasonable expecting your rims in good shape. And, no way would I accept them staightening them up. Once you do, they are yours, including the cost of replacing them when a crack or something else develops in the future. This is not being unreasonable.

I wouldn't play games with this service manager. Either he steps up to the plate, or go higher than him. He isn't doing you any favors, and doesn't deserve any loyalty.

This is a sensitive subject for me. I once took my truck to a reputable tire dealer to have new tires installed. I dropped the truck off for the day, and wouldn't be back until late that evening. They would leave the truck out for me to pick up, and I'd come back the next morning to pay. When I got there the next morning, the owners son asked to speak to me outside. During the course of work, they had dropped a tire on the hood of my truck- I hadn't noticed the damage, because I had picked it up in the dark. They had tried to straighten it out, but you could still see it, and the damage was in a natural crease in the hood. I wasn't upset- things happen. How it is dealt with is what does matter.
Chris, the son, immediately volunteered to repair the hood- he used to work in a body shop. The truck, though, had a new paint job, less than 6 months old. I told him I would take it to the body shop and get their honest opinion, then get back with him. At that point, he was very willing to do whatever to correct things.
The body shop, run by a close friend of mine (I say that because I trust him, he is a straight shooter, and I know he would fix it right without doing any unnecessary work), said that I wouldn't be satisfied with bondo, because of heat and vibration. The best thing was to replace the hood.
Back to Chris- he concurred, but asked if he could look for a used hood. I said that was fine, as long as it was in good shape. No bondo or other work to get it into shape to paint.
Fast forward two weeks (his dad was gone on vacation this whole time), and he wasn't able to find a hood. So, Chris ok'd ordering a new hood and getting it painted. I would bring him the statement from the body shop.
Fast forward another week- I take the statement in, and his dad is back. He blows through the roof, refuses to take the bill, and informs me that my truck isn't worth the cost of the hood. I didn't blow a gasket, but I did inform him that his responsibility was to return my truck to me in the shape that it came in, not to judge what it was worth. He flat refused, and would only pay to have the hood repaired- in his estimation, not the body shop. He would only reimburse me $125.00. That was MANY years ago, and I haven't bought anything from them again. More than once, I have seen Chris in public, and he asked if they could have my business back. Sorry. Loyalty is earned, not given. I still have that dented hood in an old corn crib here at the house.
Businesses have a responsibility to protect your property. When they don't, the only right thing to do is restore it, not patch it. Whatever the resolution is, both should agree on the solution. Otherwise, you are at an impass and you, the customer, are going to lose. When they put their interests above doing what's right, it is time to part ways.
I say all of this with a clear conscience. I worked in a family business for many years, and we have lost our shirts making things right when a problem arose. With the stabilizer business, I have done whatever was necessary to satisfy the customer. Right is right, whatever it costs.
 

Apogee

Member

Equipment
B6100, B7100, B8200, B9200, G4200, L175, L35
Jan 22, 2012
518
0
16
Tacoma, WA
Peter,

Welcome to the site!

Huge bummer as it sounds like a really nice tractor. You scored!

Skip the Service Manager and setup a meeting with the owner of the dealership to see if you can get the problem resolved. Tell him what has happened and the condition of the tractor. Let him know that, while you appreciate the service manager's effort to try to resolve the issue as inexpensively as possible, that "keeping it under the radar" wasn't an option because the solutions being offered weren't acceptable. Take pics and sue them in small claims court if necessary. Be nice, but firm.

If the owner won't help you, then I'd call Kubota and see if getting the district rep. involved would help. If you're blown off by the rep, go up the chain. Even though the unit is out of warranty, a bad dealer is a black eye on them as well.

The wheels are expensive, they damaged them, and you expect them to be replaced WITH THE CORRECT ONES FOR YOUR MODEL. If they have a good used set, fine (check the bolt holes to be sure they're not egg-shaped). If not, they get to order you new ones and add the cost to their tire mounting training budget.

Because the dealer chose to employ, and not supervise, an inexperienced technician is NOT your problem.

Sorry to hear of the botched job. You will LOVE that 9200!

Steve
 
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Billdog350

Member

Equipment
Kubota L3710 HST,L2230A QT,forks,Takeuchi TB125, 60" Luck Now pto Snowblower
Jan 6, 2014
468
10
18
East Hampton, CT
PeterP, sorry to hear about your issues! I have a B9200 HST as well (I LOVE it) and I feel your pain. Please just keep in mind one specific thing....you said the wheels were loaded and had some rust. From experience I have seen the outside of a rim look pretty good but the inside is completely rusted away. Depending on how long those wheels were loaded, they would have built up a layer or rust around the bead, plus weakened the rim. Add that to a dry rotted tire after 25+ years and you have a real crappy job to remove those tires.

My B9200 rims are cracking up front and I have already had to replace one with a new 1 piece from Kubota to the tune of $250. I welded the other but I'm not sure how long it will last, plus the actual flat part where it bolts to the hub is bent.

All I'm trying to say is, you might want to leverage this mistake by seeing if they will get you some new rims at cost and mount the tires for free, at least for any rims that looked questionable. Some shops won't touch loaded rims, or at least won't warranty any work because of the issues with rusting and a weakened rim.

On another note, I brought in my 2007 Corvette to have a bubble in a tire replaced and I was given back a scratched $1000 chrome rim...which the dealer had to replace. It took some fighting and thank god I had taken pictures before they worked on the rim to prove that they caused the damage. They ended up paying for it (through their insurance) and all was good in the end.

I also had a dealer damage my rear fender, wheel, and possibly axle on my 1994 Camaro when I took it in for emissions testing. They never told me but I had a funny vibration on the car when I took it on the highway after the test so I looked underneath and noticed the dent and paint and realized what happened. I ended up taking them to small claims court and winning to the tune of almost $900.

They're more than happy to take your hard earned money, why should you have to pay for their mistake?
 

hodge

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John Deere 790 John Deere 310 backhoe Bobcat 743
Nov 19, 2010
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Love, VA
PeterP, sorry to hear about your issues! I have a B9200 HST as well (I LOVE it) and I feel your pain. Please just keep in mind one specific thing....you said the wheels were loaded and had some rust. From experience I have seen the outside of a rim look pretty good but the inside is completely rusted away. Depending on how long those wheels were loaded, they would have built up a layer or rust around the bead, plus weakened the rim. Add that to a dry rotted tire after 25+ years and you have a real crappy job to remove those tires.

My B9200 rims are cracking up front and I have already had to replace one with a new 1 piece from Kubota to the tune of $250. I welded the other but I'm not sure how long it will last, plus the actual flat part where it bolts to the hub is bent.

All I'm trying to say is, you might want to leverage this mistake by seeing if they will get you some new rims at cost and mount the tires for free, at least for any rims that looked questionable. Some shops won't touch loaded rims, or at least won't warranty any work because of the issues with rusting and a weakened rim.

On another note, I brought in my 2007 Corvette to have a bubble in a tire replaced and I was given back a scratched $1000 chrome rim...which the dealer had to replace. It took some fighting and thank god I had taken pictures before they worked on the rim to prove that they caused the damage. They ended up paying for it (through their insurance) and all was good in the end.

I also had a dealer damage my rear fender, wheel, and possibly axle on my 1994 Camaro when I took it in for emissions testing. They never told me but I had a funny vibration on the car when I took it on the highway after the test so I looked underneath and noticed the dent and paint and realized what happened. I ended up taking them to small claims court and winning to the tune of almost $900.

They're more than happy to take your hard earned money, why should you have to pay for their mistake?
Good point. The tires may have been difficult or impossible to remove without damaging the possibly weakened rims. That is supposition. Either way, they should have gone to the OP, and either warned him of what was likely to happen, or stated that because of possible damage, they couldn't be responsible. They are the professionals; they should handle this professionally, instead of "staying under the radar".
 

ShaunRH

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L3200
May 14, 2014
1,414
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Atascadero, CA
Hodge is correct. If they could not properly dismount the tires with standard processes, the protocol is to go back to the owner and ask for instructions after offering what options they had. If peterp then okay'd the extraordinary measures to remove, it would be on him. Since they failed to do that, their service team took the responsibility on themselves and any court will agree with that. Also, failure to disclose the damage and extraordinary measures is illegal and if peterp asked for entirely new tires and rims in court, he'd likely win.

Proper handling of this by the dealership would be to replace all the rims with an apology and take it out of the paycheck of the guy that decided to do this fiasco. There is a proper way to handle loaded tractor tires and to do it with reasonable measures. The fact the dealership couldn't handle this right says more about their quality than how they are handling it.
 

Billdog350

Member

Equipment
Kubota L3710 HST,L2230A QT,forks,Takeuchi TB125, 60" Luck Now pto Snowblower
Jan 6, 2014
468
10
18
East Hampton, CT
Agreed Hodge, regardless of the cause, if they proactively explained what happened with the OP, then it would have been handled professionally and allowed him to make the decision, not the tech that screwed things up.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Jun 9, 2013
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Sandpoint, ID
Peterp,

You have a 25 to 30 year old tractor, it doesn't matter if it has 222 or 10,000 hours on it, point is it's old and if the tires were filled with calcium chloride for that long the rims and tires are most likely rotten.
I betting the tires were not even good on the outside after that length of time.

If the service manager did not inform you that you were likely facing a complete loss of both the tires and rims if you tried to dismount them then shame on him, he needs to learn a little more!

I'm also betting that the dealer couldn't even get new rims if he wanted to.

Post some pictures of the tires and rims!;)
 

ShaunRH

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L3200
May 14, 2014
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Peterp,

You have a 25 to 30 year old tractor, it doesn't matter if it has 222 or 10,000 hours on it, point is it's old and if the tires were filled with calcium chloride for that long the rims and tires are most likely rotten.
I betting the tires were not even good on the outside after that length of time.

If the service manager did not inform you that you were likely facing a complete loss of both the tires and rims if you tried to dismount them then shame on him, he needs to learn a little more!

I'm also betting that the dealer couldn't even get new rims if he wanted to.

Post some pictures of the tires and rims!;)
If it was in tubes, it might not be all that bad, but direct on the rims, yeah, they are shot. Still, the dealer needs to be smarter than this, as you pointed out. I am left wondering if they actually know what they are doing. A body hammer test alone should've told them if the rims were salvageable or not.
 

85Hokie

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BX-25D ,PTB. Under Armor, '90&'92-B7100HST's, '06 BX1850 FEL
Jul 13, 2013
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113
Bedford - VA
Agreed Hodge, regardless of the cause, if they proactively explained what happened with the OP, then it would have been handled professionally and allowed him to make the decision, not the tech that screwed things up.

I too am with Hodge - IF the rims were in great shape on the outside and then the dealer got into them - and after the FIRST one , saw that it was a huge problem, then he should have stopped - and asked what to do ......then the owner has the chance to step in and make a decision.

But I agree with everyone - IT CAME IN looking this way, it should leave , even better!!!!!

I friend of mine had something done in the dash area on her van........the worker had dropped a cig ash on the seat, vinyl ...and it made a hole, she raised hell !
they replaced the seat......... and that is what should happen.....

another story, I bought a Ruger pistol, works great, every blue moon it has a light strike.....I called Ruger, they SENT me the FedeEx ticket ($14.87), they are paying the shipping across county, fixing it and sending it back, all for nuttin, and with an apology !!! thhhhhats service !!!:):)
 

peterp

New member

Equipment
L4330, B9200, Harley Rake, York Rake, BH90, BB60, Grapple, Timberwolf 3pt Split.
Oct 27, 2014
21
0
0
West Stockbridge MA
Hey thanks for all your comments. Much appreciated. Regarding the condition of the rims, all tires had tubes which held air fine. I did not just drop the tires off, I called first to make sure it was a job they could and would do. I was there in person and spoke to the Service Manager last week to ask when I could bring them over. I will take some pics of the one rear rim I have later and try to post. What really bothers me now is that the Service Manager will not even return my phone call(s). If the rims were trashed because of age/rust, I would have just ordered new rims $1050 and not even bother restoring these, but these rims would last longer than I will at this point. The front rims (both bent) were really in very very good shape. I did not think to take pictures yesterday as I was in shock and wanted to give the dealer time to get his S**T together. Once again, thanks for all comments.

Peter
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
Jun 9, 2013
30,206
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113
Sandpoint, ID
PeterP,
Thanks for more clarity!
It's really sounding like the service department at that dealership need trained #1 how to deal with customers before to avoid problems and after on the best way to deal with them, and #2 they need to train the wrench monkeys how to do a job right!
I've broke down many a wheel and many a size and I think I might have slightly damaged one rim years ago, it's not that hard.

Now on to how to get some closure on this, call the dealership and ask to speak with the manager (not the service manager) if you get no where with that call Kubota Corp., they are ultimately in charge of the dealer.
If you still don't get anywhere send them a legal letter of intent to sue for property damages and loss, and loss of wages, if they are smart you will have a new set of rims in no time at all! ;)
 

ShaunRH

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L3200
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Atascadero, CA
That rim looks salvageable but you need to test it after media blasting to make sure it has enough metal left that isn't going to part on you suddenly where the bead is.

You can try reinforcing the badly pitted areas with brazing work and grinding it back down but it's a lot of work and effort with no small amount of patience and skill to get it back to profile, especially in a bead seating area, but you'll end up with tubes no matter what you do.

If you go with them as is, be wary of trying to fill them again. The added weight will put a lot of strain on those weakened bead areas.

My thoughts, not necessarily an expert on it but it would be my concerns if it were my unit. Your mileage may vary.

By the way, that damage looks like improper dismounting technique to me. I don't think they had the correct bar on it.
 
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peterp

New member

Equipment
L4330, B9200, Harley Rake, York Rake, BH90, BB60, Grapple, Timberwolf 3pt Split.
Oct 27, 2014
21
0
0
West Stockbridge MA
The latest is that after (3) phone calls, I finally spoke to the service manager just before they closed for the day. I stated that I did not want to accept the straightening of any of the 3 rims he had. We went back and forth a little then he stated that he did not realize that I was doing a restoration. I stated that I am not doing a restoration but when we stood together and he wrote up the work order, they were to dismount the tires, dispose of the ballast, hold onto the tire so that I could take the rims to be sand ballasted, repainted and returned to be re-mounted and filled will Rimguard. Whether the rims were for restoration or not I would expect them to be in the same condition when dropped off as picked up. He then asked what would make me happy. I told him that I would like (3) new rims, I would be willing to pay 50% of the retail cost of the rims (about $350.00). He said he would check with his superior and get back to me. I am doubtful they will accept my offer based upon some other friends comments about the dealer. We will see, to be continued.

Thanks to all for responding, I would like to really un-load on them but sometimes you catch more bees with honey than vinegar:)
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
Jun 9, 2013
30,206
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Sandpoint, ID
I would like to really un-load on them but sometimes you catch more bees with honey than vinegar:)
But a Bazooka beats a pea shooter! :D

Honestly I think the rims could be straightened out without any issues, I've seen way worse, but I get you being upset and I would be too! ;)