Box vs Rear Blade?

[ThisIsNotaStep]

Got my retirement lake property a few years ago, couple of miles of private road I've been working on. Trying to get things in shape, I'm not getting any younger. The base was pretty good, cleared all the trees/brush back from the sides, put in a couple of culverts, ditched some sections and finally spent all last week back blading with the loader 4 loads of gravel. The straight runs were no problem but the corners took for ever, what are my options to maintain it? How can you tell if a box blade is running too deep until it's too late?
I have a bx23 TLB

 

[aeblank]

LPGS. At least, that's what I want.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[Bulldog]

Once you get some practice in with a box scrape you'll wonder how you ever got along without one. Some say one of the double edge grade scrapes, land plain, land grader, land leveler (it has a few different names) work great on for driveway maintenance. I don't know how much it will do other than that. A box scrape may not be the best choice but it's works so good for all types of grading work. I would be lost without mine.

Just don't get a light weight piece of junk, it will never be what you want it to be. Spend a few extra $$$ and get a quality name brand like Bushhog, KK, LP ect... It will be the only one you ever need.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Got my retirement lake property a few years ago, couple of miles of private road I've been working on. Trying to get things in shape, I'm not getting any younger. The base was pretty good, cleared all the trees/brush back from the sides, put in a couple of culverts, ditched some sections and finally spent all last week back blading with the loader 4 loads of gravel. The straight runs were no problem but the corners took for ever, what are my options to maintain it? How can you tell if a box blade is running too deep until it's too late?
I have a bx23 TLB

Here is the thing, with a couple miles of roads, do you really want to take care of all that road with your size tractor? That is a whole lot of road for such a small machine. But the size is up to you, you still need the same type of implements to take care of the road.

You have ditches to keep clean, so that puts you into a rear blade. But you really need an offset blade so that you can swing the blade over into the ditch without having the tractor in the ditch. This may be a difficult task with your BX.

For surface maintenance, there is nothing that works as well as a land plane grading scraper (LPGS), plain and simple.

For other types of maintenance, if you find a need to move larger amounts of material, a box blade is usually the go to implement.

If all you need want to do is dress the road for a final smoothing, looks good type of thing, then a landscape rake works very well.

I have about 2 & 1/2 miles of roads and fence lines that I take care of, I have all of these implements and find a need for them all. But if I could only have one, the LPGS would be the implement of choice to maintain my roads.

 

[skeets]

Well if a BX is what the man has, then that's what he has to work with! SO lets start there I use a LP blade and while Im only doing about 300 yards it works well enough, and it will ditch some too,,
That being said, I am looking for a box blade, reason is that when you grade everything stays in the box and levels out behind and not out the sides. So all in all a box blade would be my choice if I were to do it all over again. And like any blade you have to play with it for a bit to figure out how it works best

 

[coachgeo]

Well if a BX is what the man has, then that's what he has to work with! SO lets start there I use a LP blade and while Im only doing about 300 yards it works well enough, and it will ditch some too,,
That being said, I am looking for a box blade, reason is that when you grade everything stays in the box and levels out behind and not out the sides. So all in all a box blade would be my choice if I were to do it all over again. And like any blade you have to play with it for a bit to figure out how it works best

LP blade?

Saw one youtube video on a home made box blade where a guy had set up a way to mount a plow blade on one (or the other?) side of his box on the outer edge. Used this for maintaining the ditch Thought it was kinda genius. His box blade was wider than his tractor if I recall right thus he didn't have to put tire in ditch. Sounds like maybe a long hitch receiver tube across the back of a back blade or box blade so you could mount the single plow blade on either side for ditch maintenance could be a sweet addition. Might have to beef up 3pt of the implement etc. to handle the new forces.

 

[ShaunRH]

It is possible to set up a box blade to allow the tractor to straddle the ditch while the blade cuts it. It requires some offsetting work or linkage to the blade. If you don't need it too deep, it works.

I use my LP box blade to do my roads, overgrown with weeds and such. Making the roads, refurbishing them, bringing the gravel back up, etc. can all be done with a box blade and rippers. Is it as time efficient as having multiple implements to do the work? No, but it can be done.

The ground planers cannot do ditch work.
The blades cannot move material well.

The only item that CAN do all those things is the box blade, and that is with no offset or anything. So if you have to pick one, get a box blade with rippers and go to town. If you can afford all the attachments, get them as they will all have their other uses as well and save you time.

If you have basic welding skills, you can make a land planer with just some angle iron and tow it behind your box blade as you work, making two passes for only 1 run.

 

[skeets]

LP blade.....Land Pride

 

[jrslick]

I prefer both. I bought a box blade to move material, dirt and rock and a blade to move snow and level out rock and dirt.

I have moved feet of dirt with a 54 inch box blade on my B7100. I had to build up a pad to sit a shed on for some 4-H Steers. A blade wouldn't have been able to do that. I also moved lots of dirt to make a leveler pad for a high tunnel. I also like to use the box blade to tear up the driveway and bring back rock from the road and fill in low spots. When I do this it looks like we got new rock delivered.



I use my blade when I am smoothing out the rock or dirt. I also prefer the blade to move snow with. I have a short drive way and I drive with the blade angled on the outside edges of the drive. Then come back down the middle and the snow is moved out. I usually make another pass along the outsides and the drive is clear. It also works well to push up brush in tree piles and drag loose material.

 

[Daren Todd]

We used to use one of these
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4141/4851961880_d16f1f83a1.jpg

Now dad uses a box blade, i use a scraper blade

 

[ShaunRH]

We used to use one of these
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4141/4851961880_d16f1f83a1.jpg

Now dad uses a box blade, i use a scraper blade

I'd like to have a grader like that to level out some spots on my Texas ranch! They are also nice to have someone in control of the grade while the driver concentrates on driving. Modernize that puppy and give it a coat of paint and it's good to go! LOL!

 

[MtnViewRanch]

It is possible to set up a box blade to allow the tractor to straddle the ditch while the blade cuts it. It requires some offsetting work or linkage to the blade. If you don't need it too deep, it works.

I use my LP box blade to do my roads, overgrown with weeds and such. Making the roads, refurbishing them, bringing the gravel back up, etc. can all be done with a box blade and rippers. Is it as time efficient as having multiple implements to do the work? No, but it can be done.

The ground planers cannot do ditch work.
The blades cannot move material well.

The only item that CAN do all those things is the box blade, and that is with no offset or anything. So if you have to pick one, get a box blade with rippers and go to town. If you can afford all the attachments, get them as they will all have their other uses as well and save you time.

If you have basic welding skills, you can make a land planer with just some angle iron and tow it behind your box blade as you work, making two passes for only 1 run.

Are you saying that the LPGBs can't move much material, or are you saying that a rear blade does not move material well?

Either way, they both can move a lot of material when one knows how to and the implement is set up to do so. Any of the implements that I listed out can and will do the job. But as you mentioned, just not as fast or as efficient.

A box blade is not the ideal implement to be either cutting or cleaning out road side ditches, but you are right in that it usually can all be done with just a box blade. But then I can probably do it with my rear blade faster and better than my box blade. Sort of depends on exactly what a person is using.

As far as the OP, he asked what to use to maintain his roads. A LPGS is the BEST implement for him to do that with, with the information that I am aware of. We probably need to keep in mind the size of his current tractor.

 

[Daren Todd]

I'd like to have a grader like that to level out some spots on my Texas ranch! They are also nice to have someone in control of the grade while the driver concentrates on driving. Modernize that puppy and give it a coat of paint and it's good to go! LOL!

I bet you, if you wanted to take a trip to vermont. The one we used is probably still sitting in the back pasture above my grandparents old farm house. The new owners would probably give it away or sell it for next to nothing to get it out of there. It was still there as of 2 years ago, when i knocked on the door, introduced myself and the wife and I went wandering around the property. All it needed was some new rubber and grease. Could still raise, lower and angle the blade. No paint left on it, and sure wouldn't recommend going near it with a sand blaster

Actually, theres one near me in springhill arkansas off from hwy 65 just north of conway. I could probably get the info on it if your interested

 

[ShaunRH]

Are you saying that the LPGBs can't move much material, or are you saying that a rear blade does not move material well?

A standard blade will have material move off the edge of the blade, sometimes this is desired, some times it isn't, especially spreading new material, a box blade is a master at this, standard blades need their angles changed all the time to accomplish the same thing and many more passes. Standard blades are single direction, most box blades can work in both.

The 'planers' literally scrape and drop the material in the same spot, maybe a few feet further down. You're moving a fraction of the material a box blade can load up, again, sometimes this is desired. Unless you drag your roads monthly or are in country where weather doesn't bugger them up much, you might end up needing to take off high spots and move the material back to a low spot. A blade can do this, but if it's a lot of material, with a lot of passes and a lot of messing with the implement. A box blade can do it quickly with a pass or two, planers would take all day.

As far as box blades maintaining ditches, it depends if the ditch was made with a box blade first... if so, nothing else will maintain it as well. I'm sure the same can be said for most implements capable of making a ditch.

It can be what you are comfortable with, but for an all around, single implement, the box blade is the most capable even if it isn't the most efficient. The other items cited have things they don't do at all or even more inefficiently than the box blade. For other property tasks like landscaping, the box is master. For snow removal, I agree a standard blade is better, it can be done with a box but you are in reverse push mode and it's a bit of a chore.

I ran a standard blade and without down pressure on a 3point hitch, some roads I used it on just laughed at it. I haven't found the dirt/gravel road yet that laughs at the rippers on a box blade.

 

[ShaunRH]

I bet you, if you wanted to take a trip to vermont. The one we used is probably still sitting in the back pasture above my grandparents old farm house. The new owners would probably give it away or sell it for next to nothing to get it out of there. It was still there as of 2 years ago, when i knocked on the door, introduced myself and the wife and I went wandering around the property. All it needed was some new rubber and grease. Could still raise, lower and angle the blade. No paint left on it, and sure wouldn't recommend going near it with a sand blaster

Actually, theres one near me in springhill arkansas off from hwy 65 just north of conway. I could probably get the info on it if your interested

I wish I was in that area, I'd snatch it up in a second. Sure, it'd be a heckuva project restoring and modernizing it, but a new tow grader starts at $3,000 these days. Used aren't much cheaper.

I guess I'll just end up renting a modern one for a week to do my property. It'll cost about as much as refurbishing the old timer and I won't have it sitting around my property taking up space after I'm done with it! LOL!

Here's a version a few decades newer than the one you posted:
http://home.gwi.net/~dclough/68.gif

And a current style on the market:
http://trailgrader.com/

Here's a major manufacturers version for compact tractors:
http://www.mytractorforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164459&d=1309911684

 

[MagKarl]

Either can do most jobs. Both excel at certain jobs. Sometimes you need to cut and move material, and a box is the ticket. Other jobs you want to redistribute or reshape what's there without really moving it, so an angle blade fits the bill. Really depends what you have to do. My advice is to shop your local Craig's List for used gear and get both.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

A standard blade will have material move off the edge of the blade, sometimes this is desired, some times it isn't, especially spreading new material, a box blade is a master at this, standard blades need their angles changed all the time to accomplish the same thing and many more passes. Standard blades are single direction, most box blades can work in both.

The 'planers' literally scrape and drop the material in the same spot, maybe a few feet further down. You're moving a fraction of the material a box blade can load up, again, sometimes this is desired. Unless you drag your roads monthly or are in country where weather doesn't bugger them up much, you might end up needing to take off high spots and move the material back to a low spot. A blade can do this, but if it's a lot of material, with a lot of passes and a lot of messing with the implement. A box blade can do it quickly with a pass or two, planers would take all day.

As far as box blades maintaining ditches, it depends if the ditch was made with a box blade first... if so, nothing else will maintain it as well. I'm sure the same can be said for most implements capable of making a ditch.

It can be what you are comfortable with, but for an all around, single implement, the box blade is the most capable even if it isn't the most efficient. The other items cited have things they don't do at all or even more inefficiently than the box blade. For other property tasks like landscaping, the box is master. For snow removal, I agree a standard blade is better, it can be done with a box but you are in reverse push mode and it's a bit of a chore.

I ran a standard blade and without down pressure on a 3point hitch, some roads I used it on just laughed at it. I haven't found the dirt/gravel road yet that laughs at the rippers on a box blade.

Not that any of this helps the OP out, but here is some info for anyone else that may need it. Rear blades can and do move A LOT of material. I linked to this one because it was the only picture of the end plates that I quickly was able to find. My picture below has well over a cubic yard or dirt in front of the blade, put end plates on the blade which are an option for any decent rear blade and you can move that dirt about any where you want. Again you just need the right piece of equipment. There are light duty blades and the are HEAVY DUTY blades and everything in between. The light duty implements don't really get much done and that is going to be a problem for the OP because they pretty much only make light duty equipment for BX size tractors.

As far as a LPGS not moving much dirt, my 7 footer moves well over 3 cubic yards if I choose to do so. Not sure what you consider a lot of material though.

My 7 foot box blade is about 1 cubic yard, maybe a little more with it all heaped up as in the previous pictures. You can see in my picture where the dirt had been up over the top of the LPGS, those sides are 22" tall. There is well over a cubic yard of dirt in the implement in my picture.

As far as taking all day to grade-maintain a road, less than 1/2 the time that it takes using a box blade. Not sure where you are coming up with your figures-thoughts on this stuff, but I would guess that you have NEVER used a LPGS. Ask anyone that has one, light duty to heavy duty, they all work good. The heavier ones just work that much better, but they ALL seem to work good.

One last thing, if you haven't come across any dirt that your box blade rippers won't dig into, then you have never dealt with hard ground. At times we have ground so hard that the rippers on my dozer will not go in, now that is some hard dirt.

 

[ThisIsNotaStep]

thanks guys, I knew there would be a wealth of experience here. I agonized about ditching with the loader, but eventually had to as previous shallow swails did not cut it. The rear blade sounds like it works like back dragging with the loader edge, but spilling to one side. That would have been good to bank the corners.
I'm leaning towards the rear blade, If I make one pass, each side of the road going opposite directions then smooth of the center pile that should work for me. The rippers on the box blade look like overkill for my app, I try to grade when things are wet. A hydraulic rear blade would be luxury, maybe I'll see what I can put together. What this "little" bx has done/can do never ceases to amaze me!

 

[Burt]

Got my retirement lake property a few years ago, couple of miles of private road I've been working on. Trying to get things in shape, I'm not getting any younger. The base was pretty good, cleared all the trees/brush back from the sides, put in a couple of culverts, ditched some sections and finally spent all last week back blading with the loader 4 loads of gravel. The straight runs were no problem but the corners took for ever, what are my options to maintain it? How can you tell if a box blade is running too deep until it's too late?
I have a bx23 TLB

notastep:

Box blade for road maintenance, clearing moguls/bumps out, ripping up sod. Snowblade for snow. A Box blade will work for snow OK but a snow blade that angles at about 30 or 40 degrees either way will do it more efficiently.

We can clear our 300 ft. driveway in 2 passes with the snow blade.

The box blade is a super road maintenance tool and we have extended and maintained our driveway and others now for years with a box blade. It's invaluable.

Burt

 

[ShaunRH]

Okay, I think I need to clarify by what I mean about moving material.

A front loader can load up a certain amount of material and move it from point A to point B and drop it right where you want it. That is 'moving' material to me.

A box blade can scrape up a certain amount of material and drag it a certain distance and either spread it or dump it at a destination. If you overfill the box, it just runs out the top and the back, a function you sometimes want and sometimes don't.

A regular blade can scrap up a certain amount of material (a roughly triangular cone/roll amount based on blade height and the gravity based angle holding factor of the material being scraped) and in perpendicular mode, move it to a new location, usually losing a certain amount off the ends of the blade and maybe over the top, a function you sometimes want and sometimes don't. An angled blade does the same but you always lose an amount off the rear edge of the blade, a function you want because you chose to angle the blade. It's not really 'moving' material in this mode, it's spreading, contouring or concentrating it.

A planer operates about the same as a box blade, it can have scarifers or rippers as well but doesn't generally require them. It normally has a shorter blade height and the function of losing material over the top/back of the blade sections is actually a major function of making it work, so that is desired. It moves a factor of material less than a box blade due to the lack of height and multiple blade edges help make up for this difference but it is not really used for material moving, more scraping and spreading of the scrapings. It can spread out materials very well, not so good at retaining them for longer distances.

So there is a difference in 'moving' ie: relocating over distance, materials and 'spreading' materials. All 3 items can spread materials, never said they couldn't. However if a storm washed half your long gravel driveway down into a drainage ditch, the box blade will put it back more quickly than the rear blade or planer will, not sure if the planer actually could.

If you have a relatively flat driveway that doesn't weather much, or gets maintained monthly, then, as I've said, any of the devices will work with the planer being the best, probably the blade next (or first) if you are in snow country, and the box blade last unless you do a lot of landscaping then it becomes first.

If you are always repairing big cuts or materials losses in your roadways, have side drainage ditches or hard packed roads, and you can only afford 1 implement, then the box blade is probably your best bet.

Each device has it strengths and weaknesses. It all depends on what you are going to do the most.

As far as the pictures, nice wet sand you are moving there. Don't think they'd look the same with hard packed gravel! Then again, that's the point, the material you work with also has a big impact on what device to choose. Sand and DG is pretty forgiving. A gravel/DG mix is like concrete. Gravel and Asphalt tailings is actually a pretty good mix if you can keep it contained... which is a big if.