L210 Wont Start

[zcv7853]

I have an issue with my Kubota L210 that I am hoping someone can help me with.

I was using it one day and it suddenly died. The engine rpm fell to zero and now I am unable to get it started.

A few things for background info.....
- 10 years ago I was able to "park" the tractor somewhere and let it idle for an hour or 2 and there would be a small 4" diameter oil spot on the ground. Recently, when I would stop and sit somewhere for 10 minutes there is a 8" oil spot on the ground.
- It has always been difficult to start. Requiring a vehicle jump and copious amounts of starting fluid.
- I live in florida and have never attempted to start it below 70 degrees F.

Troubleshooting....
- I completely took apart and cleaned ALL parts of the fuel system and am confident that it is getting fuel.
- I opened the oil plug on the top of the head (I'm pretty sure its the oil plug... might be something else...) and blue smoke pours out of that when I try to start it. There is just as much smoke coming out of that hole than there is coming out of the smokestack.

I believe that the piston rings need to be replaced. I have looked online for l210 rings and cannot find a parts distributor that sells them. Is there a different engine out there that uses the same (or very similar) rings that would work? Can I replace them without a complete teardown? (pull the head and slide the pistons up through the top?)

Thank you in advance for any help. I grew up with this tractor and hate to see it in the state that its in.

 

[Zatzke]

As you mentioned, smoke coming out your crankcase usually means your rings are shot or cylinder walls are scored (or both, they like to go hand in hand)... when the tractor quit on you, did you hear any noises that might indicate anything else?

Usually when the rings are going it just keeps losing power and losing power until it just doesn't want to start and doesn't have enough power to do anything useful... Unless a ring broke or a piston cracked causing the sudden stop

Was it smoke or steam coming out of your crankcase? I am assuming you have already checked the oil and it's not a frothy milkshake (this would point towards the head gasket)

You said you checked your fuel system and you are getting fuel, have you checked to make sure your exhaust is free of obstructions? Just remember, an engine is just a big air pump... Air in, air out. I'd check your intake as well just to be sure!

If you have fuel, you have air in, air out, and still no power - it may be time to look into the internals. The other thing with a diesel is injection pressure and atomization of the fuel, but I would think the injection system is mechanical and not run off of oil pressure like the older powerstrokes - can anyone who knows more than me verify?

Tough starting could be caused by bad glowplugs, but could also be the lack of compression to get the fuel to combust

I'm not an expert on these tractors, but hopefully can help a little with diagnostics!

 

[coachgeo]

Part of the problem..... well what well could have exasterbated the problem is the use of starter fluid. It is a diesel. Heard numberous times starter fluid being a big no no. Starter Fluid is a high Octane fuel that needs a spark to ignite so it ignites at the wrong time in a diesel thus causing conflict with many things. All those attempts were just warming the engine and possibly building compression enough to finally kick off the diesel. Starer Fluid also is more of a conflict for IDI diesel engines. Not sure if the 2cyl you have is IDI but I would suspect so.

Diesels need Cetain fuels...... which in lamens turn is opposit end of the spectrum from Octane. So all the unburned starter fluid and diesel running down the cylinder walls washing away lubrication while attempting to start it has likely not helped matters at all.

I would guess your engine is tired and wore out. Go to Harbor Freight and get a $30 compression gaugage and check. My bet is its low. If not that you got air in the system (or both) and your glow plugs are shot (all three is possible).


PS- IDI = Indirect Injection AKA there is a prechamber off to the side and where initial combustion takes place then propogates into the cyclinder.

 

[zcv7853]

Thanks Zatzke and coachgeo for the replies.

Its not the head gasket. No frothy milkshake. I also do not remember any odd noises when it stopped either. Its not like it "blew up" or anything. Just died.

- definitely smoke out of the crankcase, not steam. The tractor was cold. (EDIT: this should have been the valve cover! - not the crankcase)

- Ill double check the intake

The fuel injectors are pressurized by a mechanical pump that rides the crankshaft. I cleaned that pump and tested the injectors outside of the cylinder to verify.

Is it possible a valve is screwed up? Either stuck open or similar? I am new to troubleshooting engines...

There is a decomp feature that we use occasionally to help it start. Get the engine turning over and close the knob. It seems as though there is compression because the starter is definitely working to turn it over compared to when decomp is open.

I do think that one of the pistons was operating a while without rings. That would explain why there was so much extra oil slick on the ground. We rarely use it for anything intensive. The most we use it for is light mowing and lifting logs on a boom pole. I dont know if I would have noticed a loss of power. My guess is the piston rings finally went and now there is not enough compression. Ill swing by and grab a compression tester. Good idea.

I am going to try to access the rod caps and take the pistons out to examine things this weekend depending on compression results. Maybe I can access them through the location on the attachment?

Sorry if I have rambled. Thank you so much for all your help.

 

[ShaunRH]

That diagram seems to show it has sleeves. So, if you can find just the sleeves and rings for it, you can probably get it running again for fairly cheap.

If not, a new engine is in your future as you would have to have the sleeves and rings custom made by a machine shop and that would be as much as a new engine for many places these days.

You might find a junker that you can pull the engine or sleeves and rings from. Repowering is also an option, but that can get complicated.

Ton of overhauling kits here:
http://www.kubotapartsdealer.com/overhaul-kits/

 

[zcv7853]

So the more I am looking at the diagrams and researching, I believe the valves are the issue.

The "crankcase" that I spoke of previously with the smoke coming out I believe to be the valve cover. There is a vertical pipe that runs down the side of the engine that is depositing the oil spot and is connected to the top of that cover.

That tells me that there is excessive unburnt mixture from the chamber getting underneath the valve cover and running down the pipe.... seem logical?

I also believe there is compression in the cylinder (not enough, but some) because the starter works hard to turn the engine over. If there were no rings or bad/broken rings the starter would turn freely?

I will be pulling the valve cover first thing this weekend.

Anyone else concur?

Thanks!

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Smoke coming out of the breather can be valves or rings, a diesel engine will turn over hard with bad rings, and still not have enough compression to fire.
#1 you need to do a compression check, if compression is bad, then you will need to dive in!
Could be valves, could be rings.

 

[zcv7853]

So I took the head off yesterday and pulled the pistons and found the problem.....

- Rings came out in multiple pieces.

Pistons are damaged - the spacing that holds the rings in place are broken. There is about a silver dollar sized area that is damaged reaching across all the piston spacers.

Unless I can find new pistons and rings for this z1100a engine, I think she might be ready for the scrap pile =(


I looked though the rebuild kits ShaunRH supplied and did not find any for the z1100a. Anyone have any other sources?

Thanks everyone for the help.

 

[coachgeo]

So I took the head off yesterday and pulled the pistons and found the problem.....

- Rings came out in multiple pieces.

Pistons are damaged - the spacing that holds the rings in place are broken. There is about a silver dollar sized area that is damaged reaching across all the piston spacers.

Unless I can find new pistons and rings for this z1100a engine, I think she might be ready for the scrap pile =(


I looked though the rebuild kits ShaunRH supplied and did not find any for the z1100a. Anyone have any other sources?

Thanks everyone for the help.

Any good dealer like Messicks can put together a rebuild kit. First though you need to determine a few things like can you hone out the sleeve and go with what ever oversized piston/ring set is available or do you have to go with replacing sleeves and use standard pistons/rings. (sleeves add more $$$) Also you got to determine if you need to have the crank worked on thus requiring different bearing or bushings etc. Take block to machine shop if you do not know how to determine these things.

You may have a big decision ahead of you. If you explore this and learn on the fly; rebuilding it yourself, then it might be cost effective. If you plan to pay someone...... probably not. Kit will probably be anywhere between $600 and $800!!!! then there is machine shop work/evaluating.

That being said, Im only slightly educated on this and may be little off on my info. Others with more knowledge will hopefully pipe in if I've steered you wrong in any way.