help with sick B6100

[jimbo]

Hi everyone,

my first post - thanks in advance for your patience!

I have been offered a B6100 BUT it is a bit sick! essentially it lacks power

1) it starts OK from cold (after 30 secs glow plugs), a little black and white smoke soon clears - no other smoke seen whilst running...

2) it ticks over ok,

3) will pick up some revs "leisurely" in neutral,

4) BUT even in 1st (high) gear cannot climb even a gentle incline...when you try the engine fairly quickly (5secs) loses revs (in a controlled gradual
decline manner) and you typically have to save it by pressing the clutch (to stop it stalling)

My ultimate question is - is it worth me buying it for a fair price?

Better questions are:-
what does everyone think may be wrong with it?

I suppose best case scenario is blocked fuel filter(s)?
Worst case scenario - injector pump and injectors?
Anything else?

Could anyone have a "ball park" guess at costs of fixing it
up, for each likely scenario?

Many thanks in advance for your time

Jimbo

 

[Eric McCarthy]

Do you have that same problem in all the other gears on the incline or just in 4th? To me if it acts like the tractor wasnt to stall in all gears its a fuel filter. But if it acts goofy and sluggish just in one gear then chances are it will need a clutch replacement or adjustment.

 

[jimbo]

Do you have that same problem in all the other gears on the incline or just in 4th? To me if it acts like the tractor wasnt to stall in all gears its a fuel filter. But if it acts goofy and sluggish just in one gear then chances are it will need a clutch replacement or adjustment.

Hi Eric,

clutch felt OK - good "bite" and no apparent slipping or strange noises...

the incline I tested it on was not steep at all - maybe a 1 in 6 gradient...

The tractor would only move up it in low ratio 1st gear without behaving like it wanted to stall.. progress was slow

(The guy had another same model tractor that would "fly" up the same slope in high 1st (5th?)or 2nd (6th) (maybe in higher gears too); it revved up freely, real nice and smooth - if i could get the sick one to run like that I'd be very happy!!)

Thanks for your time

Jimbo

 

[traildust]

Do you have that same problem in all the other gears on the incline or just in 4th? To me if it acts like the tractor wasnt to stall in all gears its a fuel filter. But if it acts goofy and sluggish just in one gear then chances are it will need a clutch replacement or adjustment.

Agreed.

Start off by pulling the fuel filter.

Let the tractor sit overnight and get a clear glass jar and capture fuel from the tank after pulling the filter. How does the fuel look? Now let the jar sit in a safe area for a while and see if any contaminates sepperate.

Swirel the jar like a glass of wine and look for water in the bottom of the jar. You will see it there is any.

Scott

 

[jimbo]

Agreed.

Start off by pulling the fuel filter.

Let the tractor sit overnight and get a clear glass jar and capture fuel from the tank after pulling the filter. How does the fuel look? Now let the jar sit in a safe area for a while and see if any contaminates sepperate.

Swirel the jar like a glass of wine and look for water in the bottom of the jar. You will see it there is any.

Scott

Hi Scott

The thing is it isn't mine yet and is still at the owners yard so I can't really try those things yet...

I'm hoping that you guys can take me through some "worst case" scenarios of what the problem(s) *could* be and an idea of how much it *would* cost to fix it up in each case - then I can decide properly whether to buy the thing or find another one...

thanks for your time
Jimbo

 

[Eric McCarthy]

Seems to me like it would be the clutch. If it climbed the hill in a lower gear then I highly doubt its the fuel. A clutch pack can be a tricky and funny thing. Sometimes a tractor will work in one gear with a bit of a struggle or the tractor wont budge at all. Also the tractor can run fine in all the gears and the PTO can be a nightmare to turn on, especially if its a "live" two stage PTO.

 

[traildust]

Hi Scott

The thing is it isn't mine yet and is still at the owners yard so I can't really try those things yet...

I'm hoping that you guys can take me through some "worst case" scenarios of what the problem(s) *could* be and an idea of how much it *would* cost to fix it up in each case - then I can decide properly whether to buy the thing or find another one...

thanks for your time
Jimbo

Hi Jimbo,
I can understand your situation. No matter what this going to cost, it's still going to be a good chunk of money. I don't think it would be an unreasonable request to ask the current owner if you could perform a basic inspection.

Get a flashlight, rag, inspection mirror, clear glass jar and a fuel filter.
Climb under, over and all around this thing. Look into hidden areas with the mirror. Operate all the controls paying close attention to how they perform.
Pull the air filter and have a look. This could also be a problem with low power and some of the smoke.
Persuade the guy into letting you change the fuel filter if you can. Worst case he gets a new filter on the tractor.

People do this stuff all the time when buying boats, cars, tractors and all kinds of stuff. It's just a basic check to make sure you don't get ripped off too bad.

If he does't let you get too close of a look at the machine, then that in itself raises red flags.

You said it starts ok with glow plugs. What was the outside air temp when you had to use the glow plugs? If it was a hot day and glow plugs are needed then cylinder compression may be low.

The sluggish engine could be as basic as the fuel filter, bad fuel-or- bad enjector pump and bad injectors. Just guessing.

If it were me I would buy it, IF and ONLY IF, the price is rock bottom. I have a work shop and adequate tooling to take on a basket case. I don't have the funds but I do have the time.


Scott

 

[traildust]

Seems to me like it would be the clutch. If it climbed the hill in a lower gear then I highly doubt its the fuel. A clutch pack can be a tricky and funny thing. Sometimes a tractor will work in one gear with a bit of a struggle or the tractor wont budge at all. Also the tractor can run fine in all the gears and the PTO can be a nightmare to turn on, especially if its a "live" two stage PTO.

If the engine doesn't want to stay running under load then checking the clutch can be a problem. With the brakes holding tight and letting out the clutch the engine is probably going to die anyway. Hmmmmm


Scott

 

[bruceatlam]

Can you grab the fan belt and turn the engine easily?? If you can, rings are likely shot leading to low compression and, therefore, no power.

 

[jimbo]

You said it starts ok with glow plugs. What was the outside air temp when you had to use the glow plugs? If it was a hot day and glow plugs are needed then cylinder compression may be low.

The sluggish engine could be as basic as the fuel filter, bad fuel-or- bad enjector pump and bad injectors. Just guessing.

If it were me I would buy it, IF and ONLY IF, the price is rock bottom. I have a work shop and adequate tooling to take on a basket case. I don't have the funds but I do have the time.


Scott

Hi Scott,
air temp was about 6 degC - ("coat but no hat" weather)

I'm a bit confused with the clutch suggestions :-
if it were the clutch - wouldn't it slip rather than stall the engine?

NB going downhill things are a lot better - but of course gravity is assisting things

thanks
Jimbo

 

[traildust]

Hi Scott,
air temp was about 6 degC - ("coat but no hat" weather)

I'm a bit confused with the clutch suggestions :-
if it were the clutch - wouldn't it slip rather than stall the engine?

NB going downhill things are a lot better - but of course gravity is assisting things

thanks
Jimbo

Hey there Jimbo,
No worries about the clutch, there was a little bit of confusion early on.
You are right, if it's the clutch being worn then the engine rpms should stay steady or increase as you go no where.

My comment early on was IF the tractor wasn't stalling out then you do the basic clutch test for its health. Hold brake, release cluth and engine should bog down and or if it doesn't then clutch is suspect. However we can't do that with your tractor because it will die.

I would say 6c is a good glow plug temp and maybe even worthy of a hat if the winds blowing

One more thing, if your property is all down hill then you will not have to worry about the power loss


Scott

 

[jimbo]

Hey there Jimbo,
No worries about the clutch, there was a little bit of confusion early on.
You are right, if it's the clutch being worn then the engine rpms should stay steady or increase as you go no where.

My comment early on was IF the tractor wasn't stalling out then you do the basic clutch test for its health. Hold brake, release cluth and engine should bog down and or if it doesn't then clutch is suspect. However we can't do that with your tractor because it will die.

I would say 6c is a good glow plug temp and maybe even worthy of a hat if the winds blowing

One more thing, if your property is all down hill then you will not have to worry about the power loss


Scott

I just need to remember to attach the bungee cord before I set off downhill

So if I can't turn the engine by hand (with the decompressor in "run" position) then that suggests engine compression is OK?

Does the fact it starts up from cold OK also suggest the engine compression is good?

If the compression is OK then are we agreed it's most likely a fuel problem?

If it's NOT a blocked fuel filter what ball park figs are we talking about to sort/rebuild the injector pump and injectors?

E.g. US tractor parts places quoting USD 700 for a new injector pump....what's a rebuilt pump gonna cost? and the injectors?

thanks everyone for your time and patience!

Jimbo

 

[jimbo]

Can you grab the fan belt and turn the engine easily?? If you can, rings are likely shot leading to low compression and, therefore, no power.

I'll try this thanks.

If the rings are shot would there be other symptoms? blue smoke from burning oil? other colours/sorts of smoke?

(when I drove it there wasn't hardly any smoke even when trying to go up the hill....just a steady drop in revs...)

thanks
Jimbo

 

[traildust]

I'll try this thanks.

If the rings are shot would there be other symptoms? blue smoke from burning oil? other colours/sorts of smoke?

(when I drove it there wasn't hardly any smoke even when trying to go up the hill....just a steady drop in revs...)

thanks
Jimbo

Hi Jimbo,
The very basics as I remember are: If it only smokes on start up and the smoke ends shortly there after it's the valves. If the smoke continues through out the operation then it's the rings.

I'm guessing the tractor you are looking at has good compression as it starts fairly easy. If your compression were so bad that you couldn't stay under way then I'd bet the thing wouldn't be able to start with out the assistance from a bag of gun powder.

Don't hold me liable if things go horribly wrong, but I say if the price is right then make the plunge.


Let us know what you decide.


Scott

 

[jimbo]

Hi Jimbo,
The very basics as I remember are: If it only smokes on start up and the smoke ends shortly there after it's the valves. If the smoke continues through out the operation then it's the rings.

I'm guessing the tractor you are looking at has good compression as it starts fairly easy. If your compression were so bad that you couldn't stay under way then I'd bet the thing wouldn't be able to start with out the assistance from a bag of gun powder.

Don't hold me liable if things go horribly wrong, but I say if the price is right then make the plunge.


Let us know what you decide.


Scott

Hi Scott

thanks for that, it only smokes on startup and then not hugely...

and I have plunged for ~US350 (with a FEL and ROPS)

I'll keep you posted as I start to check things through - standby for more questions

Thanks
Jimbo

 

[traildust]

Hi Scott

thanks for that, it only smokes on startup and then not hugely...

and I have plunged for ~US350 (with a FEL and ROPS)

I'll keep you posted as I start to check things through - standby for more questions

Thanks
Jimbo

Congratulations Jimbo

Take her home, take care of her and she will love you forever!

Please keep us updated with your progress.


Scott

 

[jimbo]

hi everyone,

just changed the fuel filter, bled through and fired her up for a test "run" round the yard - same lack of power, what's next?

thanks
Jimbo

 

[Bellinghamster]

Assuming it ran well at some point and hasn't been too "fixed" (i.e. fuel pump timing changed or fiddled with), and it starts it sounds to me like fuel delivery problems. Silly but simple question: are you sure you have the shutoff petcock on the fuel filter in the right position? The handle should be vertical, or perpendicular to the flow (which to me seems contrary to logic).

Pull the fuel line that goes between the lift pump and the injection pump, run in into a container and crank the engine. Do you get good fuel flow? If not, I suspect something restricting in the fuel filter (petcock, clog, etc.) or the lift pump (check-valve or diaphragm)

 

[jimbo]

Assuming it ran well at some point and hasn't been too "fixed" (i.e. fuel pump timing changed or fiddled with), and it starts it sounds to me like fuel delivery problems. Silly but simple question: are you sure you have the shutoff petcock on the fuel filter in the right position? The handle should be vertical, or perpendicular to the flow (which to me seems contrary to logic).

Pull the fuel line that goes between the lift pump and the injection pump, run in into a container and crank the engine. Do you get good fuel flow? If not, I suspect something restricting in the fuel filter (petcock, clog, etc.) or the lift pump (check-valve or diaphragm)

hi,
yes fuel tap is correct and fuel is flowing.

I am new to this (diesels and kubotas) but I don't believe it has a lift pump - fuel runs from tank down to filter/fuel tap onto injector pump onto injectors.

When I bled the injector pump after fitting a new fuel filter, I cranked the engine for 10secs (with the decompressor lever switched to stop it starting). I only opened the air bleed bolt a turn or two but even so there seemed to be a good pulsating flow of fuel coming out...

thanks
Jimbo

 

[B7100]

Is the tractor in 4wd or 2wd or have you tried it in both? will it push along ok when out of gear and the brake off?
Dave