High vs. Low range...

[chucky79]

When do you guys use high vs low range? I know the difference and intended use just wondering what everyone's real world experience is with their BX tractors. I ask because today i ran down to the barn real quick for some tools to shovel gravel. I usually climb my steep hill back up from the barn in low range but today i forgot to switch it down to low like i usually do when mowing and i got to a point on the hill where the tractor completely ran out of torque even though i had it almost to the floor. I realized what was going on so i stopped and shifted to low and off i went but it took me a minute to figure it out...thought i was hung or dragging my 3ph etc. Ive had this happen with atvs and the like but never my tractor. I shifted to low and off she went but jthis ust got me thinking about what the real work limits for the tractor in high range might really be? I reckon what i experienced was normal in high range considering how steep that part of my hill was. I hope i didnt damage anything as it was a really steep short bank that i was climbing but i later realized it was also the first time ive tried the hill since having 250lbs of ballast filled in the tires so im sure that added a little extra strain on things. I kinda had it in my head though that i had climbed that hill before in high but maybe i hadnt....??? So guys whats your all experience with high and low range? Anyone ever ran out of power/torque in high like me? How bout ran out of power in low range? Ive never seen a tractor run out of power in low range before.....its always been my experience that anything with a motor lost traction before it lost power when pulling in low. thoughts...opinons....??

 

[85Hokie]

When do you guys use high vs low range? I know the difference and intended use just wondering what everyone's real world experience is with their BX tractors. I ask because today i ran down to the barn real quick for some tools to shovel gravel. I usually climb my steep hill back up from the barn in low range but today i forgot to switch it down to low like i usually do when mowing and i got to a point on the hill where the tractor completely ran out of torque even though i had it almost to the floor. I realized what was going on so i stopped and shifted to low and off i went but it took me a minute to figure it out...thought i was hung or dragging my 3ph etc. Ive had this happen with atvs and the like but never my tractor. I shifted to low and off she went but jthis ust got me thinking about what the real work limits for the tractor in high range might really be? I reckon what i experienced was normal in high range considering how steep that part of my hill was. I hope i didnt damage anything as it was a really steep short bank that i was climbing but i later realized it was also the first time ive tried the hill since having 250lbs of ballast filled in the tires so im sure that added a little extra strain on things. I kinda had it in my head though that i had climbed that hill before in high but maybe i hadnt....??? So guys whats your all experience with high and low range? Anyone ever ran out of power/torque in high like me? How bout ran out of power in low range? Ive never seen a tractor run out of power in low range before.....its always been my experience that anything with a motor lost traction before it lost power when pulling in low. thoughts...opinons....??

Chuck,

you know, you take the words right out of my mouth! I have the bx25, and to go down to the "bottom" it is low range all the time! I have had the machine at other places and "forgot" all about high range........
I find that high range is very limited, if you are on semi level ground, high is great, but pull on any grade, and high range cannot pull the tractor up a small hill!

I had to move some warning track brick dust for a softball team at school, after a couple of trips from pile to the outfield, I said, dayum - I will be here forevER! So the lever was switched to high range, it worked well! Flat ground, run into the load at a good clip, get a bucket full, and off and running. Now with a full bucket the front end gets a little bouncy, so I have to slow down a bit.....

but to beat these keys some more,
I find that I use LOW range about 95% of the time, my lay of the land is hillcity around here!!!!

I have a hill that has about a 29% grade, I am too scared to drive up it , but the bx will back up that sumbeauch without too much trouble, one time I still have the MMM on! It dropped a few rpms but it did what it had to do!

So I am with you on the limitations of high range, hell, I wish I could use the high range more !

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

This is going to kill your thought process, but go try it again tomorrow but instead of mashing on the pedal to try and go faster let up on the pedal!
Surprise, Surprise it will go faster and easier with less pedal on a hill and all without stalling.
I couldn't give a good explanation why it works like that, but it has to do with the loss of hydraulic flow to the hydrostat trans.

 

[chucky79]

This is going to kill you thought process, but go try it again tomorrow but instead of mashing on the pedal to try and go faster let up on the pedal!
Surprise, Surprise it will go faster and easier with less pedal on a hill and all without stalling.
I couldn't give a good explanation why it works like that, but it has to do with the loss of hydraulic flow to the hydrostat trans.

Funny you say that because the guy who delivered the tractor and gave me my "lessons" referenced that exact thing. i had forgotten till you said that but he told me people think more pedal is more gas like a car but its reverse intuition. he said sometimes just backing up a bit on the foot control is all you need. I may try it later but i kinda worry that i could damage something doing that hill in high range....i would however like to experiment with this idea if it was safe on the tractor to do so... Like i said it was a bit frightening....she just about totally came to a stop so naturally pushed harder and then i realized she was starting to stall the engine. I almost was like something had chained me down or the brake was hung.... This brings up a good point.... could a person damage the tractor using high range when you should use low? How bout one time like i did today? Any concern...

 

[chucky79]

Chuck,

you know, you take the words right out of my mouth! I have the bx25, and to go down to the "bottom" it is low range all the time! I have had the machine at other places and "forgot" all about high range........
I find that high range is very limited, if you are on semi level ground, high is great, but pull on any grade, and high range cannot pull the tractor up a small hill!

I had to move some warning track brick dust for a softball team at school, after a couple of trips from pile to the outfield, I said, dayum - I will be here forevER! So the lever was switched to high range, it worked well! Flat ground, run into the load at a good clip, get a bucket full, and off and running. Now with a full bucket the front end gets a little bouncy, so I have to slow down a bit.....

but to beat these keys some more,
I find that I use LOW range about 95% of the time, my lay of the land is hillcity around here!!!!

I have a hill that has about a 29% grade, I am too scared to drive up it , but the bx will back up that sumbeauch without too much trouble, one time I still have the MMM on! It dropped a few rpms but it did what it had to do!

So I am with you on the limitations of high range, hell, I wish I could use the high range more !

this grade is about 29% or even more to be honest. gonna get me an inclinometer for the tractor just because i want to know exactly myself but i go up and down all the time to mow and i also side hill it occationally but that really gets your pucker factor going. I feel alot safer up and down for obvious reason. That hill is actually the reason i got the BX. 4x4 and diff lock make for a pretty remarkable package. I was doing it with a box store riding mower and chains... side hill was a sit on the fender affair and going up and down was a crap shoot on whether you would spin out or be a run away train on the way down. One summer of that and BX purchase was added to the budget!

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

No you won't do any damage trying it, it's all a matter of hydraulic flow.

 

[85Hokie]

this grade is about 29% or even more to be honest. gonna get me an inclinometer for the tractor just because i want to know exactly myself but i go up and down all the time to mow and i also side hill it occationally but that really gets your pucker factor going. I feel alot safer up and down for obvious reason. That hill is actually the reason i got the BX. 4x4 and diff lock make for a pretty remarkable package. I was doing it with a box store riding mower and chains... side hill was a sit on the fender affair and going up and down was a crap shoot on whether you would spin out or be a run away train on the way down. One summer of that and BX purchase was added to the budget!

I have this patch of grass on a hillside, all it is a constant slope, I had an old 8N that I would bushhog it about 3 times a year, 1st gear down, 1/2 throttle, and ifn it was a little wet one of the tires would cut lose and slide! As for the riding mower, tried to go up it one time and pucker factor got the best of me as did the 2 wd, I cut the mower off, slide off the back and manually turned it around!!! And the run away train only happened ONCE!!!!! Trees are uS !

I took a 4' level to calculate the slope, and a tape measure. My slope is fairly uniform, placed the tape measure at the end of the level and held one end of the level in the hillside, when the level was "level" I measured the vertical distance. In my case it was 28" vertical and a 48" horz. SO I divided the rise over the run, in this case 28/48=.58333 and found a calculator online that would do inverse tangent and asked what inverse tangent of it was! This was closer to 30.2 degrees.......

One day when I get enough balls, I might fill the bucket with dirt and drive the BX up it~! Then again she rides up backwards without too much complaining!

Speaking of the diffy lock, I find that hard as hell to "hit" when I need it, I feel like I am going to break that little pedal off!!! Only used it a couple of times, stuck in mud .......

I bought my BX for the same reason - the ol hillside, but damn it does ssooooooo much more !!!!

 

[gpreuss]

Chuck,



I had to move some warning track brick dust for a softball team at school, after a couple of trips from pile to the outfield, I said, dayum - I will be here forevER! So the lever was switched to high range, it worked well! Flat ground, run into the load at a good clip, get a bucket full, and off and running. Now with a full bucket the front end gets a little bouncy, so I have to slow down a bit.....

I have a hill that has about a 29% grade, I am too scared to drive up it , but the bx will back up that sumbeauch without too much trouble, one time I still have the MMM on! It dropped a few rpms but it did what it had to do!

So I am with you on the limitations of high range, hell, I wish I could use the high range more !

It is your tractor, and that IS the tendency - run into the load at a good clip. If you happen to hit a rock or a big root, it is about the same as running into a brick wall at a good clip; something has to give, and it will probably be something on the tractor!
One of my big reasons for sticking with gears was to stop me from doing just that. In 1st or 2nd - usually 1st - the tractor will only go about a mile an hour so when I hit something all that happens is the wheels start to spin. With HST, even in the low range it will do about 4 mph. I figured that is fast enough to bend the arms or something. In the high range you can be doing about 10, fast enough to crunch something.

The CG of the FEL is out in front of the tractor. When the FEL is on the tractor about twice the weight of the FEL is on the front axle, and it is picking up the rear wheels by a bit less than the FEL weight. When you back up the hill, the weight of the engine is also pointed down toward the front, as well as the driver's weight, and the CG of the FEL is even farther out front. So the front axle has gobs of weight, and thus traction. When you try to drive forward up the hill, you have a better weight distribution towards the rear, but evidently not enough to overcome the effect of the FEL in front.
I run into the same situations with my L3200 - with the FEL attached, the rear end is really light, even with rear wheel weights and filled tires. Going down a hill in 2WD is scary!

 

[Burt]

When do you guys use high vs low range? I know the difference and intended use just wondering what everyone's real world experience is with their BX tractors. I ask because today i ran down to the barn real quick for some tools to shovel gravel. I usually climb my steep hill back up from the barn in low range but today i forgot to switch it down to low like i usually do when mowing and i got to a point on the hill where the tractor completely ran out of torque even though i had it almost to the floor. I realized what was going on so i stopped and shifted to low and off i went but it took me a minute to figure it out...thought i was hung or dragging my 3ph etc. Ive had this happen with atvs and the like but never my tractor. I shifted to low and off she went but jthis ust got me thinking about what the real work limits for the tractor in high range might really be? I reckon what i experienced was normal in high range considering how steep that part of my hill was. I hope i didnt damage anything as it was a really steep short bank that i was climbing but i later realized it was also the first time ive tried the hill since having 250lbs of ballast filled in the tires so im sure that added a little extra strain on things. I kinda had it in my head though that i had climbed that hill before in high but maybe i hadnt....??? So guys whats your all experience with high and low range? Anyone ever ran out of power/torque in high like me? How bout ran out of power in low range? Ive never seen a tractor run out of power in low range before.....its always been my experience that anything with a motor lost traction before it lost power when pulling in low. thoughts...opinons....??

Chuky79,

I agree with the comments on lifting off the pedal. Even on our tractor, we have had a similar slow down on a hill using High "gear." I was surprised when I lifted off the pedal and it kicked in. Although our experience is not as dynamic as yours, it is similar and demonstrates the difference between the old gas pedal ways to HST ways.

It's all a matter of getting used to HST. Similar to a volkswagen bug, they make funny noises and can be fussy. However, if you get used to it, it is a great product. Realizing the ancient debate regarding gears vs. hst, I am a convert to HST. It's just a new normal. Evaluate, Adapt, Overcome!

Burt

 

[85Hokie]

Chuky79,

I agree with the comments on lifting off the pedal. Even on our tractor, we have had a similar slow down on a hill using High "gear." I was surprised when I lifted off the pedal and it kicked in. Although our experience is not as dynamic as yours, it is similar and demonstrates the difference between the old gas pedal ways to HST ways.

It's all a matter of getting used to HST. Similar to a volkswagen bug, they make funny noises and can be fussy. However, if you get used to it, it is a great product. Realizing the ancient debate regarding gears vs. hst, I am a convert to HST. It's just a new normal. Evaluate, Adapt, Overcome!

Burt

Well,

proof is in the pudding ! I got the ol girl out and went down the back via the trail to the bottom of the property. Dropped it in high range, tached up about 2800 rpm's giving it gas (hydraulics) at 3/4 .......got about 1/3 up the hill, she started to moan.......gave it more pedal, moaned worse, eased up , stopped dead in tracts .....

backed down - gave it more "gas" and tried again, well no matter what or how much throttle,pedal it would not go up the grade ( approx 15% grade) - stopped - shifted to low range and walked up like a champ.

So as much as I understand the "flow" of hydraulics, the bottom line, pulling a grade empty or bucket full, high range aint cutting it......

But I ran across the yard in high gear.....bullyah.......feels like I am flying!!

 

[Burt]

Well,

proof is in the pudding ! I got the ol girl out and went down the back via the trail to the bottom of the property. Dropped it in high range, tached up about 2800 rpm's giving it gas (hydraulics) at 3/4 .......got about 1/3 up the hill, she started to moan.......gave it more pedal, moaned worse, eased up , stopped dead in tracts .....

backed down - gave it more "gas" and tried again, well no matter what or how much throttle,pedal it would not go up the grade ( approx 15% grade) - stopped - shifted to low range and walked up like a champ.

So as much as I understand the "flow" of hydraulics, the bottom line, pulling a grade empty or bucket full, high range aint cutting it......

But I ran across the yard in high gear.....bullyah.......feels like I am flying!!

Chucky79,

Try lifting off just as it starts to slow down, not after it quits and stops. That may make the difference.

Your hill may just be a little too much for the hydraulic flow requirement.

Good luck and keep getting used to it.

Burt

 

[chucky79]

Here's my hill. I don't have a place less than 20 and the steepest part where I get stuck is close to 30 degree if slope. No wonder she won't climb. Glad to see others get the same response. My girl will do the 20 degree area in high but she don't like it. Lol.

 

[85Hokie]

Here's my hill. I don't have a place less than 20 and the steepest part where I get stuck is close to 30 degree if slope. No wonder she won't climb. Glad to see others get the same response. My girl will do the 20 degree area in high but she don't like it. Lol.

that looks a hellva lot worse than 30 degrees! but pictures can lie too! I would be scared going up that sumbeeauch backwards!!!!!!!!!! Well I must have got a bum BX - my 15 degree hill stops me in high @ 3000 rpms......

looking at the picture again, look ver much like mine 30 also ....you have nicer grass!

glad to see someone else with flat lands!

 

[chucky79]

that looks a hellva lot worse than 30 degrees! but pictures can lie too! I would be scared going up that sumbeeauch backwards!!!!!!!!!! Well I must have got a bum BX - my 15 degree hill stops me in high @ 3000 rpms......

looking at the picture again, look ver much like mine 30 also ....you have nicer grass!

glad to see someone else with flat lands!

Its prob a little deceiving but it is pretty steep. Enough to make my butt pucker when i side hill mow it. Up and down doesn't phase me unless i forget to lock in 4x4 and the rear wheels slide while going down. My old garden tractor would run away with me just about every time but i got used to it. Well i feel alot better after everyone has responded....was thinking i had done something wrong or my tractor was just a wimp!

 

[ShaunRH]

If you are 'side' mowing that, I'd have a weighted, wheeled outriggers to give me some stability increase, that's a nasty slope to be mowing on. I'd only mow that beast up and down, not side to side, way too much pucker factor for me! Sorry, I'd terrace that puppy and plant something on that critter.

I can't speak to the HST, mine is the gear type, however, hydraulics being hydraulics... too much 'request' of the system will either put it into relief or cavitation. Either one is bad and I'd guess that's why backing off seems to help. Think of the foot pedal as just another spool lever, just a funny looking one. If you're digging with the loader or a backhoe and the digger stops while you are at full deflection of the spool lever, do you sit there thinking it will eventually start working again or do you back off and come back into the lever a bit more delicately? Apparently the concept is the same with the foot pedal, lots of smart cookies on this website!

 

[chucky79]

If you are 'side' mowing that, I'd have a weighted, wheeled outriggers to give me some stability increase, that's a nasty slope to be mowing on. I'd only mow that beast up and down, not side to side, way too much pucker factor for me! Sorry, I'd terrace that puppy and plant something on that critter.

Ive had the rear wheels lift up on me but since had them weighted. Not that bad except a couple place that "dip" and make ya pucker a little. im getting an tiltmeter for it soon can can let you know the exact angle after that. Im pretty careful myself as i dont want to end up dead! Always slow, with ROPS up, seatbelt on.

 

[Colety]

Its prob a little deceiving but it is pretty steep. Enough to make my butt pucker when i side hill mow it.

I would not side hill mow that hill ever. My butt cannot pucker enough!

 

[skeets]

With all due respect chuck,,, but have you ever heard of these things called SHEEP? A fellow I know has a ridge top like mine and he has 2 or 3 sheep he turns out on the hills they keep it nice and trimmed and every 3 years he gets new ones, the old ones head to the butcher, or the auction, he makes enough to buy new lambs and some left over for feed

 

[chucky79]

I can't speak to the HST, mine is the gear type, however, hydraulics being hydraulics... too much 'request' of the system will either put it into relief or cavitation. Either one is bad and I'd guess that's why backing off seems to help.

Ok im a newbie, whats cavitation? Is that little frothy air bubbles in the hydro fluid? Ive seen that before when checking after using my tractor...does it happen alot or only because i was trying that hill in high?