L3800 HST and Land Pride RCD18 . . .

[Who is John Galt]

I have about 25-30 acres of neglected overgrown meadows to beat back into submission . . I have been working clearing the stuff bigger than 1.5" out the old fashioned way . . with a chainsaw.

Will the RCD18 be a good match for the L3800? My local dealer, White's Farm Supply in Sangerfield, NY is recommending the RCD18 over the 72" single spindle rotary cutters after talking to me about what I have to do up there. Plus my tractor has 3" spacers on it with R4s, so the track is right at 72" or a bit more.

I was a bit concerned that the RCD18 was at the upper limit of what my L3800 could handle . . But Art White insists it will be fine, says he has several other clients running the same setup and they are happier than a dead pig in the middle of the road . .

 

[BotaDriver]

How slow do you want to go? Honestly that is too much deck for the 3800....especially the HST. On a good day you'll have 30hp at the PTO at most. I bog down a 5' single spindle on a GST when using the bush hog for its intended task...and I have 32hp @ PTO. You will have to go extremely slow and you will still be straining the hell out of the tractor. Doesn't make a bit of sense to go with a deck of that size. I wouldn't run that deck on anything short of an MX4700 GST.

Sounds like the dealer is selling a load of BS along with the cutter. Do not fall for it.

 

[gpreuss]

I have a tendency to agree with the dealer. Two or three (two, in this case) smaller blades are evidently easier to turn than one big one. With HST, the advantage is that you CAN go really slowly. The mower adjusts to 12" height. And you are reclaiming the pasture. Once reclaimed, the going should be easy?

I had a 5' brush hog on my L185dt (13.5 PTO horses). The tractor, bare, weighed 1800 lbs. I had filled dualies plus 200 lbs/side wheel weights on the back, and the fel on the front - total weight was well over 3000lbs. Just moving it ate up horsepower. In ordinary field grass I mowed in 4th (4mph). Knee high & fairly heavy I needed 3rd (3mph). Down by the drainage ditch where it was waste high and really thick, I had, on occasion, to go all the way to 1st (1 mph). With the same mower, and same grass, I can do it all in 4th with the L3200 (26 PTO horses). In the lighter areas I can easily go faster, but the terrain is so rough it becomes self-abuse. I wish I had a 72" deck now, but it wouldn't be worth the $$ for the time it would save.

The L3800 with R4s and 3" spacers should be about 66" wide, unless you have different wheels than the standard fixed rim ones. With the 10" offset, the mower will only just cover your tracks.

 

[Who is John Galt]

I have a tendency to agree with the dealer. Two or three (two, in this case) smaller blades are evidently easier to turn than one big one. With HST, the advantage is that you CAN go really slowly. The mower adjusts to 12" height. And you are reclaiming the pasture. Once reclaimed, the going should be easy?

I had a 5' brush hog on my L185dt (13.5 PTO horses). The tractor, bare, weighed 1800 lbs. I had filled dualies plus 200 lbs/side wheel weights on the back, and the fel on the front - total weight was well over 3000lbs. Just moving it ate up horsepower. In ordinary field grass I mowed in 4th (4mph). Knee high & fairly heavy I needed 3rd (3mph). Down by the drainage ditch where it was waste high and really thick, I had, on occasion, to go all the way to 1st (1 mph). With the same mower, and same grass, I can do it all in 4th with the L3200 (26 PTO horses). In the lighter areas I can easily go faster, but the terrain is so rough it becomes self-abuse. I wish I had a 72" deck now, but it wouldn't be worth the $$ for the time it would save.

The L3800 with R4s and 3" spacers should be about 66" wide, unless you have different wheels than the standard fixed rim ones. With the 10" offset, the mower will only just cover your tracks.

I have a tendency to agree with the Owner of the Dealership also. I found some threads over on TBN that indicate that the dual spindle cutters are significantly more forgiving on the PTO HP ratings than the single spindle cutters.

I forgot to add in my OP that the the medium duty RCD1884 is an 84" dual spindle that specs out 35-60 PTO HP whereas the medium duty RCR2672 72" single spindle requires 40 PTO HP minimum.

Weights are 839 lbs and 1046 lbs respectively.
Lengths are 80 9/16" and 126" respectively.

I like the idea of 200 lbs less weight, 4 feet tighter in to the rear of the tractor, especially on hilly terrain.

I don't mind going slow to rehabilitate the pastures. I am not one to beat equipment to death. Once the meadows are in shape, I am sure it will go easier. The Dealer is willing to put me in touch with his clients who are running this setup, so I don't think he is trying to oversell me.

 

[BotaDriver]

With the 60" deck knee high mowing is done in 6th (5.15mph) without much issue. Occasionally dense grass I will have to slow down to 5th for a few feet. First cutting of the pastures I had to use 3rd (1.94 mph). (Speeds are with the R4 tires)

Now if you're going to do the equivalent of finish mowing all of the time, consider just buying a finish mower. They give a much finer cut and the deck has wheels at the 4 corners allowing much better ground following.

When doing brush cutting it is easy to bring 32 PTO hp to its knees with a 5' cutter. Considering the gearing of the lower gears on tractors, the HST has no real advantage. Gears 1-4 on R4s yield 1.07, 1.36, 1.94, and 3.4 mph respectively.

Now taking into consideration blade tip speed, The 60" cutter has a blade tip speed of 16,363 FPM. The dual spindle 8' has 11,693 FPM speed. The power required to get to those speeds is not a linear function, and there is a 140% difference between the two. With that being said, I can run the 60" at 80% speed which is just over 13k FPM and still get the same quality cut in 'knee-high' length and shorter materials.

I'm not sure what type of cut is achieved with that low of a blade tip speed, but it's clear that it would be paramount to not let it dip below much more than that. Gears (gearboxes) and drive shafts consume power just turning them, so the parasitic drag with having more than double the gears and double the drive shafts is a factor. Another factor is blade overlap. That cutter contains 2 4'5" cutters in it.

In summary, it's more stress than I'd put on my machine....but ultimately the decision is yours. The MFG recommends a minimum of 35 PTO HP, and you're 15% shy of it. It's not just the cost of the cutter, but the additional wear on the machine to consider. Personally I'd find a 74 to 84" used alamo flail mower for half the cost. The flail can do all of the landpride cutter, plus it can mow quality turf with finish mower results. It's also the profile of a rotor tiller.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Why a rotary mower????
It's not anywhere near the best implement for what your trying to do!
You talk about clearing the 1 1/2" + stuff... did that include stumping those too?
If I needed to clear and maintain the areas your talking about, I would do a flail mower!
Your not going to beat it up, it will tear the crap out of anything in it's path, including stumps or rocks.
You can travel at a much better rate.
It has blades similar to a rototiller and they can take 100 times the abuse that a rotary mower can take!
Do yourself a favor and check it out!

 

[Who is John Galt]

Why a rotary mower????
It's not anywhere near the best implement for what your trying to do!
You talk about clearing the 1 1/2" + stuff... did that include stumping those too?
If I needed to clear and maintain the areas your talking about, I would do a flail mower!
Your not going to beat it up, it will tear the crap out of anything in it's path, including stumps or rocks.
You can travel at a much better rate.
It has blades similar to a rototiller and they can take 100 times the abuse that a rotary mower can take!
Do yourself a favor and check it out!

Great question, NIW . . "Why a Rotary Cutter?"

I am smart enough to know what I don't know, and I don't know alot about tractor implements. That's why I'm here . . to ask yous guyz . . the experts.

I am, as we speak, researching flail mowers.

The land I have has not been tilled in 20+ years . . it is pretty uneven . . there is a lot of stuff that will scalp . . . . some of those foot high grass covered ant hills . . not very dense, you can pretty much kick them apart with your foot . .no rocks to speak of, that's a good thing.

Right off the bat, the price differential between Rotary vs Flail is attractive . . the RCD1884 is $3500ish whereas the Coroni 73" flail mower is $1909.95 plus freight. The difference is a good box blade.

So what's a good flail mower in the 72" size??

 

[Who is John Galt]

Maybe a few pics of what we are dealing with are in order . .

 

[gpreuss]

Utube has videos showing flail mowers eating that sort of growth alive! I haven't actually seen one run, however. Nobody in the area seems to have one in the showroom or lot, whereas brush hogs and finish mowers abound. I wonder why? It looks like god's gift to field clearing...
Chaps on the internet say they are high maintenance. Really high. Dealers tend not to like high maintenance.
I'd have a look at Land Pride, bush hog or Woods for starters.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

They can be a little higher in maintenance (as they have way many more blades) but they are a lot more forgiving on uneven / rough ground.
They mulch what they cut which is better for the land as it breaks material up to make it easier for it to go back into the soil.
Another real plus is any stubble they leave will be soft enough that it won't hurt your tractor tires.

Another option would be to just disk it all under and reseed.
This is the route I would go if I wanted to re-pasture it.

Disk harrow, with trash (notched) blades

Broadcast Seeder

You could use the seeders to spread salt or sand over the winter too.

 

[Who is John Galt]

FWIW . . this is the MOAT (Mother of all Threads) regarding Flail Mowers . . . 1555 posts . .

Seems the Caroni is the Schiznit in the medium duty Flail Mower Market . .

Right now I am leaning heavily towards the Caroni TM1900BSC . .

http://www.agrisupply.com/product.aspx?p=30837&sid=asf10&eid=Easf10&utm_source=FreeGoogle&utm_medium=CSE&utm_campaign=MerchAdv&zmam=77232640&zmas=1&zmac=1&zmap=30837&gclid=CLC3wuO0gb4CFW5eOgodxBUAYA

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

You didn't point to what thread your talking about?

I don't think I personally would go with that model... for 2 reason.
1: It's at the very edge of your tractors ability, your going to be under HP'ed for any work you want to do with it.
2: The model your looking at has fewer teeth, it's good for rough cut but not a fine cut.
If your going to buy a flail mower wouldn't it be great to get a unit that is dual use, Weeds / Brush, and Fine grass.

Look at this model: http://www.agrisupply.com/flail-mower-point/p/53413/&sid=&eid=/
It is better suited all around!
I will say the Caroni models look go because you can get replacement parts if they break on you.

 

[BotaDriver]

I agree with what's stated regarding the 1900.....I just doesn't have the quantity of blades that you want for a quality cut. Which is why I suggested a used alamo. You can find one for $1,000 that's ready to cut. They are HEAVY DUTY cutters. Check craigslist. You will find them w/ a lot of cosmetic rust. But it's cosmetic; you can have it repainted for around $200 or do it yourself over a weekend. They use the Y style blades. You can buy hammers for it if you want to switch them out. The Y's should be able to shred up to 2".

The 59" Caroni is alright if you really want to purchase new. The alamos weigh about twice as much though. You make up for deck size with speed.

The pictures you post look exactly like what I had to cut the first time in our pastures. That stuff brought the 60" cutter to its knees.

Get the flail and post a bunch of pictures of its work on that stuff and make a lot of people here jealous. Don't waste time with the 1900.

 

[Who is John Galt]

This is the MOAT (Mother of All Threads) on Flail Mowers on TBN;

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/118882-lets-talk-flail-mowers.html?highlight=flail

They think very highly of the Caroni TMN1900BSC . . tractors in the 24 - 30 PTO HP range performing well with it.

I found two older Mott (the old Alamo) flail mowers locally (within 100 miles). . running but need some work . . and one old Ford 907 flail mower in running condition but very rough cosmetically . . all were in the $750 to $1000 range.

That said, I found a used Caroni TMN1900BSC 73" with 56 "Y" blades in excellent used condition for $500 . . . I think I am going to pull the trigger on it. It is at a dealer about 300 miles from here . . a lady bought it about 3 years ago thinking it was an estate mower and returned it after using it for a couple months. It has been sitting outside for all of that time . . .Here are some pics . . not even broke in yet . . I will be driving tomorrow to check it out . . What do you think??

 

[gpreuss]

So go for it! Tell us all how it works out for you, so we can make a better decision when it is our turn...

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

That is one sweet offset flail mower, and it's also adjustable to be a heavy offset for ditch banks and fence lines.
I think you'll be very happy with it, I know I would!

 

[BotaDriver]

Word of caution, its low blade count will not please. You need twice that many to get an excellent cut. Those mowers are notorious for leaving stripes.

 

[Who is John Galt]

That is one sweet offset flail mower, and it's also adjustable to be a heavy offset for ditch banks and fence lines.
I think you'll be very happy with it, I know I would!

Thanks NIW.

Well, I could not get down there to look at it today. I called the service manager at the dealer (I had previously only talked to the Sales Manager). He was kind enough to set it up and run it on a tractor and call me back. It is his opinion that the mower was never run . . apparently the owner bought it and never used it, then made the dealer take it back, service manager said she was a little goofy . . . . no grass in the blades etc, no paint worn off the blades etc . . it has just been sitting for 3 years or so. Ran fine, no vibration, nice and tight.

I got it for $500 plus shipping and a 30 day warranty, it should be here Friday or Monday. I will keep you all posted.

FWIW, the thread over on TBN I referenced is a wealth of information regarding Flail Mowers. Thanks to NIW for recommending a Flail Mower.

 

[Who is John Galt]

Word of caution, its low blade count will not please. You need twice that many to get an excellent cut. Those mowers are notorious for leaving stripes.

BotaDriver . . I am not buying it to use as a finish mower. It's low blade count is specifically meant for brush. Caroni also makes the 1900 with a finish rotor and one in between the finish rotor and the brush rotor . . I will bet it clears the brush same as a brush hog, but still leaves a better finish behind it, and not throw rocks etc at escape velocity speeds . . .

 

[BotaDriver]

BotaDriver . . I am not buying it to use as a finish mower. It's low blade count is specifically meant for brush. Caroni also makes the 1900 with a finish rotor and one in between the finish rotor and the brush rotor . . I will bet it clears the brush same as a brush hog, but still leaves a better finish behind it, and not throw rocks etc at escape velocity speeds . . .

I get a level / smooth cut with a bush hog with higher blade speed. I see the 1900 as a step down in cut quality due to its striping. I haven't had much issue with items being thrown; at its higher speed it pulverizes the granite around here.

For a dedicated brush mower it should fill the need.