kubota zd21 no start

Old Goat

New member

Equipment
ZD21F
Feb 21, 2014
5
0
0
Louisiana
Any Kubota techs here?

Working on a friends ZD21 that will not crank. No power to the starter solenoid.
Will start & run OK by jumping the solenoid with a screw driver.

I have tested all the safety switch circuits with a VOM and proved that the inputs to the "Combination Box" are working OK. Power from Ign Switch getting to box, but not coming out to solenoid wire. Carb solenoid working fine. What am I missing?

Do these boxes have a history of failure? At $204 @ piece, kind of hard to swallow for a test.

Any help here?

Charles
 

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North Idaho Wolfman

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L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
Jun 9, 2013
30,397
6,514
113
Sandpoint, ID
If every input is right for it to work and it's not, then replacing the part sounds like your only option.
Double check the ground to the unit, and double verify all input voltages are present, also note any output voltages.
 

Old Goat

New member

Equipment
ZD21F
Feb 21, 2014
5
0
0
Louisiana
If every input is right for it to work and it's not, then replacing the part sounds like your only option.
Double check the ground to the unit, and double verify all input voltages are present, also note any output voltages.
WELL, not really the only option!

Get the crappy little relay they put in there out AND put some real 30 Amp relays in there!

Works like a champ for some time and $5 worth of relays.
Now all I need to do is fill in the cavity's with silicone again and mount the thing and go cut grass!

Charles
 

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North Idaho Wolfman

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Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
Jun 9, 2013
30,397
6,514
113
Sandpoint, ID
So your telling me inside the $264 box it was basically a pair of relays?
Wow, way to go on the repair then!
I work with electronics all the time, I would say you found a perfectly acceptable work around... and probably better than factory!
Fill the hole with Silicone and your all set!
 

Old Goat

New member

Equipment
ZD21F
Feb 21, 2014
5
0
0
Louisiana
So your telling me inside the $264 box it was basically a pair of relays?
Wow, way to go on the repair then!
I work with electronics all the time, I would say you found a perfectly acceptable work around... and probably better than factory!
Fill the hole with Silicone and your all set!
It's more parts than just the two relays, but the one for the Carb Solenoid worked, the one for the Starter Solenoid was burnt and only worked once in awhile. Took a chance (Remember, Broke is Broke), pulled it out and tested it on the bench, sure enough, it was faulty. The schematic showed two separate relays, but in reality they were two relays in a little bitty darn case! How ridiculous!

BTW, the cost was $204, not $264 as I originally stated.

Filled the holes with silicone and it is flawless. All safety switches control it just fine. MUCH better than factory!

Charles
 

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Steveie

New member

Equipment
ZD21
Mar 4, 2016
2
0
0
Wetumpka, Al, USA
WELL, not really the only option!

Get the crappy little relay they put in there out AND put some real 30 Amp relays in there!

Works like a champ for some time and $5 worth of relays.
Now all I need to do is fill in the cavity's with silicone again and mount the thing and go cut grass!

Charles
Same issue here and i must say that I really don't know how you removed the relay. I used a dewalt multitool to cut this out but the rubber is stuck on both sides of the circuit board and I have the solder connnections exposed after 2 hours. Now I cannot find a valid P/N for this relay when I search online. Can you help me with a website or part number.
 

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North Idaho Wolfman

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Staff member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
Jun 9, 2013
30,397
6,514
113
Sandpoint, ID
Same issue here and i must say that I really don't know how you removed the relay. I used a dewalt multitool to cut this out but the rubber is stuck on both sides of the circuit board and I have the solder connnections exposed after 2 hours. Now I cannot find a valid P/N for this relay when I search online. Can you help me with a website or part number.

You will need to do like Old Goat did it, and whittle out the other side exposing the relay, removing it and replacing it with a standard general purpose relay, you won't find the stock relay that's in there. ;)
 

rentthis

Active member
Lifetime Member
May 30, 2012
1,007
24
38
summerville,sc
I had the same problem with the same machine. I had to turn the key switch several times before the starter would engage. I checked everything but that relay. I had my guy at the dealership check the starter. He couldn't find a problem with it. I bought a cheap after market starter and it worked fine from there. I don't know how the new starter responded to the relay but it did. Old Goats relay replacement would have very likely saved me buying a starter. The starter was half the price of the new control box but I have to admit that I feel really dumb now. Did I mention that all this came about after I had to pull the mower out of my pond?
 

Steveie

New member

Equipment
ZD21
Mar 4, 2016
2
0
0
Wetumpka, Al, USA
Update: Ok so let me say I'm not going to give you suggestions on what other others think when they work on a John Deer or tell you to check your battery which is beyond obvious which drive me nuts when folks post that stuff on forums (not here).
My original symptom was a only a click when I turn the key to start. I did hear the carb solenoid engaged on hte first click of the key, then turn halfway for the glow plugs to heatup and then to start but only got a click which I could not tell where that was coming from. I check the battery and measured the voltage when I turned to start and it read about 11.9, but was 12.6 with the key off. I assumed it was a starter and had it checked but it was OK too. The mower would turn over if I shorted the starter leads, so I assumed this forum thread was the golden key, but be warned that accessing this relay was almost impossible and I work on electonics all day. The entire board is entirely encased with rubber. I used a dewalt multi tool, box cutter, dental probes, heat guns, wire brushes, etc. Unlike the other post I removed the entire outer plastic casing to remove the entire circuit board by flush cutting between the rubber and the plastic which made this easier to get to the relay.
Three weeks working on this combo box to remove and search endlessly for a relay that meets the specs for this was nearly impossible since these are really small and have a high current rating, and I do not have a local electronics store. The original Mfg for the twin relay was found by doing a Google search TX2-8FZ had the specs but they appear to no longer be in business. Anyhow I removed and exposed the relays, cleaned with contact cleaner and tested with a 9volt battery and got good continuity when the relay engaged. I wish I tested these before I cleaned them because I'm wondering if they were even bad before that.

Long story even longer, I reinstalled the relay's and combo box and could no longer even get the carb solenoid to engage. I checked all levers and they were in the correct position. I took a tiny screwdriver and pushed the relay and the carb solenoid engaged but no luck in getting this to turn over. I then found all 5 safety switches and shorted them out still with no luck, so I then purchased the combo box locally for $240 because I did not want to wait a week for Messicks to deliver one online. New combo box worked on the first try with the switches reconnected.
This was a good suggestion on the relay because I'm all about saving a buck. My symptoms were worse, so it is entirely probable that I damaged another component in the box as I widdeled away on the rubber. (My combo box was the same PN but only had one connector, so I'm not sure why)

Hindsight advise: After talking with the mechanic when I bought the parts they said it was unlikely that the box was bad because these machine typically they see issues such as not turning off as well as not starting. They said it is almost always a switch that gets dirty, so
check all 5 switches first by removing the connectors and shorting them toward the combo box and the obviously check the 5 fuses, battery and starter. An attempt to get to the relay will be a challenge but if you do try this cut out the rubber around the relay where you see the TX2-8FZ part # facing up. The relay is enclosed in a plastic housing so a box cutter or exacto knife should go through the rubber but not the plastic. Cut flush against the relay housing on all four sides. Underneath you will need to removed 1/4inch of rubber around the area where the relay should be and then cut, scrape, wirebrush the rubber until the ckt board is exposed. Desolder the relay but note that the ckt board has traces on the top and bottom, so you must be proficient at using a solder iron. A full service manual would be extremely helpful for diagrams, locations and service instructions.
I have several more pics but could not upload multiple from my iPad for some reason.
 

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Golfboy

New member

Equipment
Zd28
Apr 16, 2023
1
1
3
Ohio
Update: Ok so let me say I'm not going to give you suggestions on what other others think when they work on a John Deer or tell you to check your battery which is beyond obvious which drive me nuts when folks post that stuff on forums (not here).
My original symptom was a only a click when I turn the key to start. I did hear the carb solenoid engaged on hte first click of the key, then turn halfway for the glow plugs to heatup and then to start but only got a click which I could not tell where that was coming from. I check the battery and measured the voltage when I turned to start and it read about 11.9, but was 12.6 with the key off. I assumed it was a starter and had it checked but it was OK too. The mower would turn over if I shorted the starter leads, so I assumed this forum thread was the golden key, but be warned that accessing this relay was almost impossible and I work on electonics all day. The entire board is entirely encased with rubber. I used a dewalt multi tool, box cutter, dental probes, heat guns, wire brushes, etc. Unlike the other post I removed the entire outer plastic casing to remove the entire circuit board by flush cutting between the rubber and the plastic which made this easier to get to the relay.
Three weeks working on this combo box to remove and search endlessly for a relay that meets the specs for this was nearly impossible since these are really small and have a high current rating, and I do not have a local electronics store. The original Mfg for the twin relay was found by doing a Google search TX2-8FZ had the specs but they appear to no longer be in business. Anyhow I removed and exposed the relays, cleaned with contact cleaner and tested with a 9volt battery and got good continuity when the relay engaged. I wish I tested these before I cleaned them because I'm wondering if they were even bad before that.

Long story even longer, I reinstalled the relay's and combo box and could no longer even get the carb solenoid to engage. I checked all levers and they were in the correct position. I took a tiny screwdriver and pushed the relay and the carb solenoid engaged but no luck in getting this to turn over. I then found all 5 safety switches and shorted them out still with no luck, so I then purchased the combo box locally for $240 because I did not want to wait a week for Messicks to deliver one online. New combo box worked on the first try with the switches reconnected.
This was a good suggestion on the relay because I'm all about saving a buck. My symptoms were worse, so it is entirely probable that I damaged another component in the box as I widdeled away on the rubber. (My combo box was the same PN but only had one connector, so I'm not sure why)

Hindsight advise: After talking with the mechanic when I bought the parts they said it was unlikely that the box was bad because these machine typically they see issues such as not turning off as well as not starting. They said it is almost always a switch that gets dirty, so
check all 5 switches first by removing the connectors and shorting them toward the combo box and the obviously check the 5 fuses, battery and starter. An attempt to get to the relay will be a challenge but if you do try this cut out the rubber around the relay where you see the TX2-8FZ part # facing up. The relay is enclosed in a plastic housing so a box cutter or exacto knife should go through the rubber but not the plastic. Cut flush against the relay housing on all four sides. Underneath you will need to removed 1/4inch of rubber around the area where the relay should be and then cut, scrape, wirebrush the rubber until the ckt board is exposed. Desolder the relay but note that the ckt board has traces on the top and bottom, so you must be proficient at using a solder iron. A full service manual would be extremely helpful for diagrams, locations and service instructions.
I have several more pics but could not upload multiple from my iPad for some reason.
Hi, sorry I have never posted on this site before and I know this is old. I would like to add these relays to combination box but would like a little better detail or pictures of wires to be soldered. Thank you
 
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