Stripped frame mounts for loader

[Nelsontractor]

I'm just new to the site and thought I would tap into this wealth of knowledge and experience of some of it's members. This site kept popping up on my internet search inquiries so why not join.

I am new owner of a 1987 B6200 with a Hardy brand loader. After the unit was dropped off at the home I noticed the 4 bolts on the plate that attaches to the frame for the loader were all loose on the right hand side. Hoping that they had just worked themselves loose I got out my rachet and tried tightening them up....of course they had been stripped and appeared previously tapped there was even a broken tap left in the one hole.

I called the local Kubota dealer at the parts counter and questioned if the frame was originally threaded. He thought it was. The holes seem to go right into the engine block and are threaded in the block. Dealer thought there should be provision for space behind the frame holes but not threaded into the block whick makes sense. The bolts used on my loader mount are almost 2" long.

So my question to anyone that has mounted a loader on a b6200 or similar Sould just the plate steel on the frame be tapped and threaded or is there something else to thread into behind? How long were the bolts that attach the plate to the frame?

The left side of the frame mounts seem all good but I don't want to use the loader until I get this fastened properly. Oh the joys of looking after someone else's mistakes.

Thanks in advance. Nelson

 

[MagKarl]

Why not pull a couple of the left side fasteners to see how they look and what part the female threads are in. Might give you a clue how it was supposed to be on the right. Then you can decide what to do, drill and tap oversize for example.

 

[Nelsontractor]

Thanks for the reply. The issue is that there is just no clearance between
engine block and frame to inspect what is going on behind. From below all one sees is the oil pan against the frame, and from the top the engine is tight against the frame.

Just want to survey to see when others have installed their loader if the frame should be the threaded connection for the loader frame as my frame displays a smooth surface only, the threading in way in...suspect that someone tapped into the engine which I can only guess is wrong.


Thanks, Nelson

 

[Nelsontractor]

MagKarl--sorry, it's too early in the morning. Yes, not a bad ideal to pull a bolt from the left side as long as no one has messed that side up. There is some messey arc welding in a few places which doesn't please me much...I'll let you know what I find out.

Thanks

 

[Nelsontractor]

Okay, I checked out the mount for the left side of the loader. I do believe this type of loader mount takes out the existing lower engine block bolts and replaces it with longer ones. I am surprised that one would use the engine block threads as an anchor for the plate of the loader frame. It would makes sense not to cause any further damage to the block on the other side and just tap out the tractor frame and hope it holds.

If anyone else would have an opion on this if would be welcomed.

Thanks,

 

[Stubbyie]

CAUTION Regarding Stripped frame mounts for loader

Allow me to begin by saying I'm not familar with your particular tractor nor its loader.

HOWEVER, I had the same or very similar problem on a Koyker loader hung on a White Field Boss (Fiat diesel engine). Note we now use only Orange around our place.

Here's the CAUTION: Be careful with those bolts when you tighten them into the engine block.

When received I found the bolts attaching the loader frame to the engine block were loose, almost 'handy'.

Wanting things mounted correctly, I tightened all the bolts.

MY GOD.

Started the tractor and the most unGodly racket came from the engine.

Shut down, thought about it, and undid the only thing I had changed--loosened all the loader frame mount bolts.

No noise. Tightened bolts, lots of noise.

Finally figured out the bolts were impinging on the (I suspect) flywheel.

Tried removing bolts completely to replace with shorter bolts.

I found that the bolts were too long but could not readily be removed--they would almost come out then hang up solidly.

Suspicion is that the ends of the bolts had been mangled so badly they wouldn't come back through the threaded hole in the side of the engine block.

Through trial and error I found the right distance to keep the bolts from being hit by engine components and then made shims out of washers that were cut such that they could be slightly bent and tapped over the bolt body. This so that if after being tightened something came loose they'd still ride on the bolt. Tapped cut washers into place and tightened all bolts.

Never had another problem; that machine stayed on the place for years. Full disclosure to next buyer; no noise, he didn't care.

I've never seen another tractor rigged like that.

Another oddity along the same lines: this thing had no glow plugs. It was equipped with an open flame diesel-fired block or preheater. It didn't run much in the winter after I regrew my eyebrows.

 

[beemer530]

Re: CAUTION Regarding Stripped frame mounts for loader

I find many similarities between your tractor and my B8200 (was told it's an 85) especially in the 3 cylinder engine blocks and the way they are used as a structural member of the tractor. I do have a factory loader so your loader mount may bolt differently.

My engine block has 8 bolt holes on each side (4 front 4 back) these hold the front frame member to the tractor through the engine. These holes are threaded and are 1 1/8" deep, which leaves 3/16" of metal at the bottom. My loader mount attaches the the outside of the front frame using what looks like 3 big square threaded nuts welded to the front frame, but the portion of the hole in the front frame is not threaded. These holes are in a line below the frame to engine bolts and on mine do not go into the engine block itself. The rear of the mount attaches at the back of the tractor to distribute the loader weight. Mine is apart for an engine rebuild and easy to inspect.

I hope this helps you decide what should be threaded.

Beemer

 

[DBCSteve]

Re: CAUTION Regarding Stripped frame mounts for loader

Another oddity along the same lines: this thing had no glow plugs. It was equipped with an open flame diesel-fired block or preheater. It didn't run much in the winter after I regrew my eyebrows.

Still laughing here in California....

 

[Nelsontractor]

Thanks Beemer530, I'm still waiting on a machinist friend of mine for advice. It's such a simple issue in one respect but it could have grave results if done incorrectly. Did I mention there was still a tap broken off in the frame mount through into the casting of the engine block. The tap is actuall so far in it's past the tractor frame width.

If I just tape the frame of the tractor to affix the 4 bolts of the loader plate to the frame, then it leaves only 4 bolts for the engine to be secured on the one side...correction 3, there is one of those snapped off also.

.....waiting to play with the loader

 

[Stubbyie]

Regarding the broken tap left in the hole...

Walton brand tap extractor (~$30 for 25-mm) available from any full-line machine tool supply house. Might be able to borrow one from your machinest and simply replace the fingers for couple bucks each.

Not something most folks commonly need but when you do there's nothing else.

If extractor doesn't work there are on the market from large welding suppliers very specific electrodes (memory is that one is called XTractAlloy) that can be used by a VERY competent master welder / machinest to run a 'stalk'-like continuous bead inside the hole from the end of the broken tap all the way to the frame surface and then tied into a large nut.

Let it all cool 'naturally' by air exposure (follow product directions) then get on that nut with a short wrench and gradually work your way up to a 3/4-breaker bar with cheater.

Use lots of Kroil penetrating oil. If done correctly the tap will will come out and save the threads.

The flux on the rod wets, coats, and protects the threads.

I've done it (failed bolt, not a tap). Large hole, much puckering, blind luck. It worked as advertised.

If for any reason existing threads are lost I'd be inclined to install a HeliCoil before attempting tapping any larger size.

Good luck. Advise progress for benefit of us all.