Starting issues B2400

[Bird Dog]

I have a B2400 that has starting issues. The starter tests fine when removed from the tractor. The circuit/positive lead when checked across ground on the body of the starter shows normal voltage. I've checked and tightened ground and negative terminal. When trying to start normally with ignition there may be a light click or other small noise but no engagement.

If I hook a jumper cable from the battery negative to the starter housing it will start. Many years ago I had starter issues and installed a low voltage relay John Deere part AM107421. I am wondering if the low voltage relay has gone bad? Is there any way to test it?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Yea you need to see if the added relay is actually energizing.

 

[jaxs]

I'm not understanding what part the optional relay plays. Is this optional relay making contact between neg battery post and body of starter or to solenoid? If simply jumping from neg post to starter housing makes starter function normally I think that is 100% proof of poor contact between housing and tractor chassis or a problem with neg battery cable. The starter is mounted to a plate that is mounted to engine block that is notorious for bolts loosening,bolts breaking,plate braking and other troubles so that might be where the trouble lies. Optional relay aside,here's how I would test. Fist eliminate neg cable as being the problem by temporarlly replacing it or run jumper cable from neg post to bolt that holds cable to chassis. If that doesn't help, jumper cable from starter housing to same chassis part that neg cable is connected to then try starting. If starter works something is loose or corroded where clutch housing meets engine or where starter mounts to plate mentioned earlier. If you aren't familiar with plate the Messick's Part # 6C040-58912 . Inspect plate and associated bolts making sure they are present and tight. I await your reply so please don't drop off the radar like so many do without an update. It's hard enough helping folks long distance ,it makes it even harder not knowing if what we say works or not.

 

[Roadworthy]

This is where your voltmeter comes in handy. If battery terminals are clean and tight and the ground connection is, too, monitor voltage at the battery while someone attempts a start. It should drop no lower than ten. Check to see if you've got proper voltage to your add on relay when the starter circuit is energized. Check the output voltage of the relay. Be sure you're getting this voltage to your starter solenoid. It should not be under about ten volts. If it is below ten have your battery load tested.

 

[Bird Dog]

I'm not understanding what part the optional relay plays. Is this optional relay making contact between neg battery post and body of starter or to solenoid? If simply jumping from neg post to starter housing makes starter function normally I think that is 100% proof of poor contact between housing and tractor chassis or a problem with neg battery cable. The starter is mounted to a plate that is mounted to engine block that is notorious for bolts loosening,bolts breaking,plate braking and other troubles so that might be where the trouble lies. Optional relay aside,here's how I would test. Fist eliminate neg cable as being the problem by temporarlly replacing it or run jumper cable from neg post to bolt that holds cable to chassis. If that doesn't help, jumper cable from starter housing to same chassis part that neg cable is connected to then try starting. If starter works something is loose or corroded where clutch housing meets engine or where starter mounts to plate mentioned earlier. If you aren't familiar with plate the Messick's Part # 6C040-58912 . Inspect plate and associated bolts making sure they are present and tight. I await your reply so please don't drop off the radar like so many do without an update. It's hard enough helping folks long distance ,it makes it even harder not knowing if what we say works or not.

I'm not understanding what part the optional relay plays. Is this optional relay making contact between neg battery post and body of starter or to solenoid? If simply jumping from neg post to starter housing makes starter function normally I think that is 100% proof of poor contact between housing and tractor chassis or a problem with neg battery cable. The starter is mounted to a plate that is mounted to engine block that is notorious for bolts loosening,bolts breaking,plate braking and other troubles so that might be where the trouble lies. Optional relay aside,here's how I would test. Fist eliminate neg cable as being the problem by temporarlly replacing it or run jumper cable from neg post to bolt that holds cable to chassis. If that doesn't help, jumper cable from starter housing to same chassis part that neg cable is connected to then try starting. If starter works something is loose or corroded where clutch housing meets engine or where starter mounts to plate mentioned earlier. If you aren't familiar with plate the Messick's Part # 6C040-58912 . Inspect plate and associated bolts making sure they are present and tight. I await your reply so please don't drop off the radar like so many do without an update. It's hard enough helping folks long distance ,it makes it even harder not knowing if what we say works or not.

Yea you need to see if the added relay is actually energizing.

Wolfman, Thanks, I am still wondering what the relay is to deliver. Everything I know about the issue and why they use the John deere relay is that there is voltage loss in the OEM circuit. I would think it should be registering 12 V or higher when the ignition is on, it is reading much lower. That being said I'm still unsure as I don't fully understand how the low voltage relay functions.

 

[Bird Dog]

I'm not understanding what part the optional relay plays. Is this optional relay making contact between neg battery post and body of starter or to solenoid? If simply jumping from neg post to starter housing makes starter function normally I think that is 100% proof of poor contact between housing and tractor chassis or a problem with neg battery cable. The starter is mounted to a plate that is mounted to engine block that is notorious for bolts loosening,bolts breaking,plate braking and other troubles so that might be where the trouble lies. Optional relay aside,here's how I would test. Fist eliminate neg cable as being the problem by temporarlly replacing it or run jumper cable from neg post to bolt that holds cable to chassis. If that doesn't help, jumper cable from starter housing to same chassis part that neg cable is connected to then try starting. If starter works something is loose or corroded where clutch housing meets engine or where starter mounts to plate mentioned earlier. If you aren't familiar with plate the Messick's Part # 6C040-58912 . Inspect plate and associated bolts making sure they are present and tight. I await your reply so please don't drop off the radar like so many do without an update. It's hard enough helping folks long distance ,it makes it even harder not knowing if what we say works or not.

Jaxs As I said to wolfman the claim is that the ignition circuit is notorius for voltage loss over time. This relay is a John Deere part that does solve the issue (I had mine on for about 10 - 15 years). That being said I'm not sure how it actually functions and as I said when the ignition is on the voltage actually drops lower than what you would expect. So I'm thinking it is part of the issue. you disconnect the negative on the solenoid and connect to an input into this voltage relay and then hook the out put on the relay to the solenoid.

I'm not certain the relay is the sole problem. I like your outline of troubleshooting the ground on the starter. Before I had posted I had similar thoughts that the ground was bad so I cleaned things up very well and checked a few items before reinstalling the starter. I did not go through the methodical checks you listed. I will be doing them! I may be getting back to you about the plate because this is not something I ever recognized with all of the times I've had the starter off. I will get back with you (it may be delayed a bit as too many irons in the fire right now).

 

[Bird Dog]

This is where your voltmeter comes in handy. If battery terminals are clean and tight and the ground connection is, too, monitor voltage at the battery while someone attempts a start. It should drop no lower than ten. Check to see if you've got proper voltage to your add on relay when the starter circuit is energized. Check the output voltage of the relay. Be sure you're getting this voltage to your starter solenoid. It should not be under about ten volts. If it is below ten have your battery load tested.

Roadworthy, Thank you for the advice. I have not checked everything you mentioned but I had checked the voltage going into the solenoid from the low voltage relay - it is much less than 10 V. That is why I tried the jumper cable negative. I will do the checks you recommended. As I said in some of my other replys I am thinking there may be multiple issues with this making it harder to solve. I will let you know what I find. Thanks for your help!

 

[Bird Dog]

Roadworthy, Thank you for the advice. I have not checked everything you mentioned but I had checked the voltage going into the solenoid from the low voltage relay - it is much less than 10 V. That is why I tried the jumper cable negative. I will do the checks you recommended. As I said in some of my other replys I am thinking there may be multiple issues with this making it harder to solve. I will let you know what I find. Thanks for your help!

Roadworthy, I checked voltages as suggested and followed all the check outlined by you and others. It was the ground cable, checking from the end of the ground the voltage was low. I found an area that was frayed and heavily oxidized. Built a new ground cable with heavier cable and works just fine. Thanks!

 

[Bird Dog]

Jaxs As I said to wolfman the claim is that the ignition circuit is notorius for voltage loss over time. This relay is a John Deere part that does solve the issue (I had mine on for about 10 - 15 years). That being said I'm not sure how it actually functions and as I said when the ignition is on the voltage actually drops lower than what you would expect. So I'm thinking it is part of the issue. you disconnect the negative on the solenoid and connect to an input into this voltage relay and then hook the out put on the relay to the solenoid.

I'm not certain the relay is the sole problem. I like your outline of troubleshooting the ground on the starter. Before I had posted I had similar thoughts that the ground was bad so I cleaned things up very well and checked a few items before reinstalling the starter. I did not go through the methodical checks you listed. I will be doing them! I may be getting back to you about the plate because this is not something I ever recognized with all of the times I've had the starter off. I will get back with you (it may be delayed a bit as too many irons in the fire right now).

I checked the ground from the points suggested, the voltage from the chassis ground was low. Starter and battery tested fine. Took off the cable and found an area that was frayed and heavily oxidized. Built a new ground cable with heavier cable and works just fine. A reminder such as yours and the others to methodically eliminate things is always a good reminder. I should have done the ground point assessment earlier, it seems like I have similar issues about every 2-5 yearsand the majority of the time it is either cable battery connection or cable connection. Thanks!