post hole digging - not enough down force or torque... take your pick

[campbell8300]

I've got an L245 with a County Line post hole digger attachment. I have 6" and 9" augers. The soil where I live is dry, compacted, and an appreciable clay content. I am needing to drill post holes (lots of them), however, I can get ~4 inches down when either:

1) I create the nicest looking clay bowl an auger can make, or

2) the auger stalls, hydraulics whine, and I show what kind of cat-like reflexes I have to get that clutch pedal pushed in. I then lug my 18" pipe wrench back to the auger and reverse it out of the ground.

Suggestions greatly appreciated!

 

[hodge]

Soak the ground where you want to put a hole?
Add some weight to your phd.

 

[E/S]

What kind of shape are your auger teeth in? Just a rounded edge can really slow you down.


E/S

 

[Eric McCarthy]

Biggest problem is the clay, it sucks dealing with clay in any fashion. Only thing I can think of is drill a smaller pilot hole then step up in size from there. Sharp bits on then end of the auger help but its still clay soil and a P.I.A to drill threw.

 

[Bulldog]

I can understand the clay bowl but the auger stalling doesn't sound right. If you auger is stalling sounds like pto is slipping. Can you explain that a little more?

I'm thinking like E/S, what kind af shape are your teeth and tip in? Until I need better I replaced my stolen phd with a really cheap piece of crap but with good tip and teeth it does a pretty nice job.

 

[campbell8300]

Update: The augers are new. In fact, I started with a 9" auger and all the stated problems. I theorized that I was perhaps trying to bite off more than my L245 could handle, so I down-sized to the 6" auger. Unfortunately, same dilemma.

The bit(s) on the end of the auger are the standard wedge shape. And new.

I visited the local fence company. For their post holes, they use a Honda gas engine (~5-7 hp) on wheels with a driveshaft/gearbox running a 6" auger. They said that their guys sometimes have to stand on top of the gearbox to "break through". Clearly their insurance company is unaware of this practice. Something I did notice is the bit on their auger was a forked/twisted design. Definitely not a standard wedge.

My hydraulics would stall when, by chance, it did finally grab enough. My 25hp is well over 3-decades in age and I try not to push it too hard. I generally keep it at or below 2000 rpm. I'm assuming I'm close enough to the top of the torque curve to do the job. I'm not sure about the PTO slipping. I haven't looked into this possibility. BD- when you say PTO slipping, I assume you mean the clutch?

Short of strutting my rain dance, I'm going to try a different bit on the end. I plan to also investigate adding more down force. The implement mfg sells a hydraulic kit for this, but I want to try something a little more basic (read cheaper). I'll post some pics of the progress next time.

 

[Bulldog]

I was just trying to understand what you meant by the auger stalling?

This is the tip I got at TSC to go on my auger. It works great and so far has broke thru every time I have needed to drill a hole. They have a pin on and a screw on version. I also put a pic of the bolt on carbide cutters they sell. I have they as well and again have been very pleased with the way they work.

 

[Eric McCarthy]

Your L245 should have more then enough ass to power threw a 9 inch bit and dig a hole in no time with power to spare. I've ran an auger behind my B6100 and sank a 12 inch bit and never really had any pto power issues.

 

[Battered Sav]

I've had similar trouble with my PHD as well.

I made up a hydraulic ram that provides enough downforce to lift the rear of the tractor.

I now realise I need to look at the teeth / cutting edges on my augers, the ones Bulldog posted look like they'll do a great job.

 

[E/S]

With no down force all you can do is run better teeth / add weight. I have used a piece of pipe attached to the frame of the post hole digger extending out the back past the head. Then hung everything from friends to RxR iron on it to help.

E/S

 

[fast*st]

so your pto runs without anything in the seat? Usually I'll use a pick and shovel to make a 6-10 inch deep starter hole, then get the auger lined up and slowly drop it down, letting the starter hole guide it, let it chew down a foot then lift it out to clear it and go down again, regulating the speed of drop with the hitch control.

 

[Bulldog]

I don't have to be in my seat for it to run.

 

[bosshogg]

On my kubota L3400 the pto can keep running when you get off the seat if you immediately lift the seat when getting off of it. Not sure about other models...

 

[campbell8300]

My low cost solution is going to be to remove the pin between the PHD gearbox and connecting arm (see attached images). I'm going to machine a shaft which will extend on either side of the gearbox. These extensions will allow a hanger to be placed on each side upon which I'll load plate weights. The calculations show that the gearbox will likely fail before the shaft is bent. Excellent.

I'm working on the shaft now. Will post back when hangers are done and installed on PHD.

 

[Battered Sav]

One of the reasons I decided on the hydraulic route was the lifting capacity of my 3pl. I tried adding weight and it sometimes struggled to lift it out of the hole, especially when the dirt was water logged.

A 12" auger buried to it's full length has a lot of dirt behind it that has to be lifted out of the hole.

As mentioned above, it's best to lift the auger every foot or so to help clear the hole of loose dirt.

 

[campbell8300]

Now with more down force,... but not results I'm looking for

Change of plans.
While I was sizing up the PHD, and frothing at the mouth over the challenge, I observed a 3/4" hole in the structure at the top of the arch. As this is a new PHD, clearly a factory added hole. No sense in debating, I pushed a 3/4" steel rod through the hole, loaded it with 210 lbs., and off I went.

As noted in an earlier post, the increased down force does seem to diminish the tractor's ability to pull it up out of the hole, especially when loaded up.

I ran it into a few previously started holes with such great expectations. All dashed. Even with added weight, the auger just can't break through that layer of clay. But on the flip side, there were some soft holes where I struggled to control the rate of descent or else it would take off and seize.

Undaunted, my next option is to change the cutting edges. I will experiment with some different teeth and maybe reducing the added weight. I guess I've got to find that balance.

 

[Battered Sav]

Re: Now with more down force,... but not results I'm looking for

Hehe, that's some serious weight.

I haven't altered the cutting teeth on my auger, yet, think I'll just wait for winter.