L2502 vs L3302 vs ? HP or Skill Issues?

[dogowner]

Looking to get a new tractor for a small ag business on a hilly property, maybe 5-10 acres but more greenhouses and grounds keeping than acreage farming if that makes sense. The actual property is larger but mostly unusable / unused. Mostly moving soil, maintaining a lot of small roads and then a bunch of small odd-jobs. Looking at a loader+forks and box scraper to start. Maybe a smaller mower/brushhog type attachment. The business isn't making tons of $$ so there isn't a blank check or anything.

We couldn't decide and ended up renting the L2502 w/ HST + Loader + Boxscraper. We really like the footprint size, not too big and not too small. The precision after driving around an older constructor-style backhoe is amazing. I feel like a surgeon on wheels. There will also be a lot of climbing on and off which fits the size. I think this tractor would be fine and is a safe bet but.... it seems a little under-powered in general. I'm not sure if its just the footprint or the horsepower or skill issues... "The Internet" seems a little unsure on if or what HP really affects at least with respect to going up in the same series. I'm mostly considering the extra ~8HP of the 3302. I know it will affect the PTO and I haven't tried the PTO yet(!) but that isn't a super common use case but I would probably be using the 60" landpride rotary mower in low and maybe 1 week in a year.

A few examples:

(1) Pushing into a roadbank with loader trying to dig with cutter blade attached and I bogged it out and killed it a few times. I was able to get going again immediately and backed off a lot and dug in a bit more slowly and methodically. This worked and is doable. (This might be me overloading the HST by metal-pedalling it, which the dealer mentioned)

(2) I kind of knew there were hills but didn't think about how much time is just spent driving from one place to the next. High seems pretty much useless which I saw in other threads too. Seems like medium with the throttle at the higher RPM setting is mostly doable for driving in general and light work but still seems to struggle on steeper hills. I don't need to be driving at 100MPH but don't want to be suffering through hours of excessive self reflection.

(3) Lifting wet soil up and out of a pile seems to cause it to struggle.

So I was hoping to get advice from people actually using these models:

- Do you pretty much have to have the RPMs bumped up to the 540 PTO setting almost all of the time?
- Do you end up burning through more diesel than expected?
- Do you drop the power out regularly trying to lift heavy loads or break out things with the loader? Or on very steep inclines?
- Do you have any issues with the DPF, eco filter thing? I'm not against the concept but just seems like something that might be buggy/glitchy. I was kind of avoiding it because it seemed like just "one more thing that could go wrong".
- Did anyone find that the 3302 made a difference over the 2502? Especially with overall power not just PTO.

Thanks for your time.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Your simply overworking the tractor.
Most of the tasks your asking it to do would be done much better and safer with a skid steer.
If your going to stay with a tractor bump it up to an MX to get lift power and hill work capability.

 

[midironman]

Yep, over working it. The L3302 will do a bit better, but you won’t notice it. If you stick with the L-series, you’re gonna need to go bigger or move up to MX or M series and you can work faster.

 

[PaulL]

If the L2502 is the right size for you, then on your specific issues:
1. Speed up hills, speed from place to place. An L3302 will have more power, and when moving fast you're not traction limited. So an L3302 or L3902 will move faster
2. Running a rotary cutter. Again, the L2502 is known for bogging down running a cutter and climbing hills. It's not a lot of HP for it's size, even though they're Clydesdale horses (large displacement engine). The higher HP L models will do better. Still not a race car, but better
3. Pushing into a pile. This is user error. You should be in low ratio for that. And remember that your HST pedal isn't a throttle, it's a gear stick. You go faster when you press harder becuase it's changing up gears the harder you press, not because the throttle is increasing. So, bizzarely enough, it has more push into a pile the lighter you press the HST pedal - because lighter pushing on the pedal = lower gear.
4. Lifting wet soil up won't be any better on a higher HP model - that's hydraulic pressure and hydraulic pump, they all have the same pump. You need to take smaller bites if you have heavy material. Most Kubota tractors will lift a bucket full of whatever - the bigger machines have bigger buckets, and still lift a bucket full. But very heavy soil or gravel they won't lift a full bucket easily.

 

[jimh406]

The loader is the same on both. Having more HP won't make the 3302 lift more.

As noted, you can go into L to have more power for moving into dirt. I find my L2501HST just right for my uses, and the bonus is not DPF. You will see some difference pulling up a hill with a 3302 compared to a 2502 if both have the same load. However, how fast do you want to go up a hill? That's for you to decide.

After you move to DPF, you have other options. The L3560 or L4060 both come in the LE which makes them a bit cheaper and the LE and non LE can be optioned with quite a bit stronger loader (there are two different ones) than the 3302/2502/3902. The L3560 or L4060 are quite a bit nicer than the regular L.

 

[ken erickson]

I have the L2501 HST which is for practical purposes the same as the L2502 you rented. I do much of the same work you plan on doing or have done with the rented L2502.

My land is hilly but hard to say how hilly in comparison to yours. I took a chance on a used Landpride light duty rotary cutter in a 6 foot width and have not looked back. My tractor set at the 540 rpm band on the tachometer runs the cutter just fine, up or down hills. Of course I adjust speed and gear range . My limiting factor is the roughness of my trails and areas I cut not the rated PTO horsepower.

My dirt work, box blade work and grapple work does not lack for HP. Maybe due to the pace I work.

The one point I do agree is the travel speed between medium and high can be quirky. In some instances medium seems too low of a gear range and high too high and the tractor can struggle a bit on inclines.

I rarely run my tractor full throttle but for sure in the 540 PTO range when brush cutting.

All of this being said, and I know lots of folks have L's with DPF and have never thrown a code or had problems with their regens. Then again if you search here you can find plenty of folks that have had code problems, ECU problems etc. For me personally it was one less system I will not have to worry about and reliability is a major factor for me. I can not just step off my tractor and walk back to my wheelchair and tractor shed from the back end of my 57 acres.

As you mentioned, and I have had other operators used to larger tractors comment on how agile but still capable this sized L tractor is.

 

[whatsupdoc]

I own a L3302 at 2300 ft elevation and very hilly. High gear is useless unless I am driving on a level paved road.

90% of the time I am using the finish mower in medium gear and have no lack of power issues with lots of uphill mowing.

Moved lots of crushed stone (1-2) and soil with the loader where I use low gear. There is a method to scooping stone and dirt into the bucket, you have to learn to finesse it in otherwise you will damage the loader.

Loaders on these tractors are for light duty work. That is why you will see
guys that own larger tractors than the L series also own a a skid steer.

 

[chim]

I've had an L4240 for about 7 years and before that an L3200 for around 6 years. With the 3 range HST in HI, they were both no good at going up much of a hill when roading them. A very slight hill, flat or downhill both were fine. The L4240 is better because of the way the HST works. Within each of the 3 ranges, there's a ""Turtle and Rabbit" selection. While the L4240 struggles while in HI/Rabbit on a couple hills I encounter between here and town, HI/Turtle works fairly well.

At one time there were optional loaders available on some sizes of tractors but I don't know if that is still true or what models could be eligible. My L4240 has an LA854 loader and what I'd guess to be the current equivalent (L4060) shows an LA805 loader which has less lifting capacity.

Some seat time would be great if possible. Iv'e mentioned before that the 4240 feels more nimble and actually turns sharper than the 3200

 

[Rdrcr]

If you’re looking at staying with a tractor with the same footprint, skip the L3302 and go to the L3902 (or perhaps purchase a pre-owned L3901). I’ve operated all three tractors on my hilly property. There’s nothing wrong with the L3302 but, if you need more power, the L3902 makes more sense.

I personally prefer my Turbocharged L2501 but, hey, different strokes for different folks

Mike

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

I think you may need to search out a bit more training. When I see you write a technique you call "metal-pedalling it" into your work pile I cringe big time. Consider either a) a straight shave approach or b) add a tooth bar or c) pull back approach with a bucket roll-up or one of the other many techniques versus running into a pile with the pedal to the floor boards. Plse that has to be hard on the operator and the equipment.

If a pedal to the metal to mean you are raming a pile. A sure way to break stuff IMHO and we would encourage either training or firing if we saw guys doing this to our equipment.

You will find a big difference moving from a L25xx to a L33xx or L39xx, Not so much on weight and lift related metrics but for sure on ground engaging work. The 33 adds about 8 hp (which is almost 1/3 more HP) and the 39 adds about 14 hp (which is about 60% more hp). I don't have the torque spec on hand But I know the added hp is going to be noticed as adding 1/3 to almost 2/3 is not insignificant to your ability to maintain a higher ground speed, work related to pulling and pushing, pto related work, etc..... I have heard many say the L25 shouldn't have a high range as just not enough umph to make high use full for a lot of things.

For rpm we run our DPF L33 / L39 around 2,200 most of the time which keeps the ecu very happy when making heat for the regen, etc...

good luck with your new adventure! sounds like you going to have a lot on your hands.

Cheers

 

[dogowner]

Your simply overworking the tractor.
Most of the tasks your asking it to do would be done much better and safer with a skid steer.
If your going to stay with a tractor bump it up to an MX to get lift power and hill work capability.

I don't have a lot of experience with skid steers but I think if we could afford two units that might make sense for the more repetitive loader work use cases. I think I would like to stay in the L series if possible, the MX just seems huge for day-to-day usage. It would perform the skid-steer use-case better as I understand it though but the day-to-day usage of driving around on 5 acres and getting on and off all day I think would be exhausting. Even with all the wall of text I put in there I can see I probably didn't explain the use-cases well enough. There is occasional intense loader work but the rest of the time would be driving around, getting on and off and doing light work. I think I can just take my chill pills and low and slow the loader work and get by.

 

[dogowner]

If the L2502 is the right size for you, then on your specific issues:
1. Speed up hills, speed from place to place. An L3302 will have more power, and when moving fast you're not traction limited. So an L3302 or L3902 will move faster
2. Running a rotary cutter. Again, the L2502 is known for bogging down running a cutter and climbing hills. It's not a lot of HP for it's size, even though they're Clydesdale horses (large displacement engine). The higher HP L models will do better. Still not a race car, but better
3. Pushing into a pile. This is user error. You should be in low ratio for that. And remember that your HST pedal isn't a throttle, it's a gear stick. You go faster when you press harder becuase it's changing up gears the harder you press, not because the throttle is increasing. So, bizzarely enough, it has more push into a pile the lighter you press the HST pedal - because lighter pushing on the pedal = lower gear.
4. Lifting wet soil up won't be any better on a higher HP model - that's hydraulic pressure and hydraulic pump, they all have the same pump. You need to take smaller bites if you have heavy material. Most Kubota tractors will lift a bucket full of whatever - the bigger machines have bigger buckets, and still lift a bucket full. But very heavy soil or gravel they won't lift a full bucket easily.

I think you're right about #3 and I'm reading more about it. I think that might be a big misunderstanding on my part. The "soil" in that case was wet wood shavings. I think some (or most?) of the "power loss" could be simply attributed to misusing the HST.

I was surprised that without any other things going on anything that was fully in the bucket it was able to lift with precise control (no lurching of the loader hydraulics or even rocking of the tractor itself). I always had the box scraper on so that probably was helping but it seems very stable.

So I gotta try to put a few more hours in and see if that sheds more light on things. I really like the idea of avoiding the DPF and just having a small engine that will easily weather the next 15 years and I can run for 5 minutes or for 5 hours and walk away.

 

[dogowner]

I have the L2501 HST which is for practical purposes the same as the L2502 you rented. I do much of the same work you plan on doing or have done with the rented L2502.

My land is hilly but hard to say how hilly in comparison to yours. I took a chance on a used Landpride light duty rotary cutter in a 6 foot width and have not looked back. My tractor set at the 540 rpm band on the tachometer runs the cutter just fine, up or down hills. Of course I adjust speed and gear range . My limiting factor is the roughness of my trails and areas I cut not the rated PTO horsepower.

My dirt work, box blade work and grapple work does not lack for HP. Maybe due to the pace I work.

The one point I do agree is the travel speed between medium and high can be quirky. In some instances medium seems too low of a gear range and high too high and the tractor can struggle a bit on inclines.

I rarely run my tractor full throttle but for sure in the 540 PTO range when brush cutting.

All of this being said, and I know lots of folks have L's with DPF and have never thrown a code or had problems with their regens. Then again if you search here you can find plenty of folks that have had code problems, ECU problems etc. For me personally it was one less system I will not have to worry about and reliability is a major factor for me. I can not just step off my tractor and walk back to my wheelchair and tractor shed from the back end of my 57 acres.

As you mentioned, and I have had other operators used to larger tractors comment on how agile but still capable this sized L tractor is.

Do you do a lot of work in < 540 PTO throttle range even when not using the PTO? I think I mostly had it on or right below that setting the whole time which maybe is over working it?

 

[dogowner]

I own a L3302 at 2300 ft elevation and very hilly. High gear is useless unless I am driving on a level paved road.

90% of the time I am using the finish mower in medium gear and have no lack of power issues with lots of uphill mowing.

Moved lots of crushed stone (1-2) and soil with the loader where I use low gear. There is a method to scooping stone and dirt into the bucket, you have to learn to finesse it in otherwise you will damage the loader.

Loaders on these tractors are for light duty work. That is why you will see
guys that own larger tractors than the L series also own a a skid steer.

When you say "light duty" do you mean the duration of work or intensity of the work or literally lifting very heavy loads versus light loads?

 

[dogowner]

I think you may need to search out a bit more training. When I see you write a technique you call "metal-pedalling it" into your work pile I cringe big time. Consider either a) a straight shave approach or b) add a tooth bar or c) pull back approach with a bucket roll-up or one of the other many techniques versus running into a pile with the pedal to the floor boards. Plse that has to be hard on the operator and the equipment.

If a pedal to the metal to mean you are raming a pile. A sure way to break stuff IMHO and we would encourage either training or firing if we saw guys doing this to our equipment.

You will find a big difference moving from a L25xx to a L33xx or L39xx, Not so much on weight and lift related metrics but for sure on ground engaging work. The 33 adds about 8 hp (which is almost 1/3 more HP) and the 39 adds about 14 hp (which is about 60% more hp). I don't have the torque spec on hand But I know the added hp is going to be noticed as adding 1/3 to almost 2/3 is not insignificant to your ability to maintain a higher ground speed, work related to pulling and pushing, pto related work, etc..... I have heard many say the L25 shouldn't have a high range as just not enough umph to make high use full for a lot of things.

For rpm we run our DPF L33 / L39 around 2,200 most of the time which keeps the ecu very happy when making heat for the regen, etc...

good luck with your new adventure! sounds like you going to have a lot on your hands.

Cheers

I think there are probably two things going on here 1. I'm using the HST wrong and 2. I'm using a loader wrong. I started doing more research about these things. You're probably right about "wth are you doing to the machine!?!" I would probably think the same thing from the sideline. Thanks for your candidness.

So as I said before looks like I gotta try it again with this new information and see how its working then.

You say the RPMs for the 33 and 39, do you usually use the 25 at the same 2200 as well for the most part? I know there is no DPF on the 25 but I'm just trying to get a feel if running the RPMs up high is "normal" for the engine or not.

We have a small trailer, not mentioned before, that we hooked up and it pulls a small load completely fine in medium up an incline. Its on pretty much road tires probably the whole thing is not more than 1000-1500 lbs. I'm starting to think this tractor size might actually be fine and I'm just over worrying and need to just read the manual.

 

[dogowner]

Thanks for reading my wall of text everybody. I appreciate all the feedback. As the internet has grown its hard to find "real" people actually really using stuff anymore versus veiled ads or the same old specs from a PDF. I gotta get a price on the 3902 and then put in a few more hours on the 2502 and see where I'm at.