Hydro oil too expensive....

[D2Cat]

Being bored and looking for something interesting to read, I got on a forum discussing all brands/types of lawnmowers. We've owned Grasshopper front mount deck for years and have actually never had to service the hydraulic steering motors. They are pretty much bullet proof. Hst oil replaced every 1000 hrs. so I've never actually purchased any amount of the required oil.

On this forum there is the typical owner astonished by the price of the oil and wants a less expensive substitute. The discussion begins, lots of opinions!

I just checked online and a 2 gal container of the factory Fluid Cool Temp Hydro oil is $143.45 at the dealer without price shopping.

There are three different hydros used over the years, the latest is the G2. Older ones used 3 gallons, the next version used 7 quarts, and the latest use 2 quarts. On the latest version the owner's manual says change at 1000 hours. The Gemini hydro guru suggest do not change the oil, but folks want a number so they say 1000hrs.

Now, this conversation is very much like one on OTT about Kubota's SuperUDT2 and it's cost. Some refuse to think it's just overpriced local tractor parts store products. So a poster comes on and has some facts. It's a joy to read.

" I know GH recommends their hydro oil "only". Has anyone used say 5w-30 synthetic motor oil for an extended period? Or should I stay with GH's $$$$ oil?
If so, where is cheapest place to buy the GH oil? My local dealer wants $18.+ per quart.....


Here's some info I got from my neighbor that used to sell all of GH's oil to them (their factory is about 45 minutes from us):
A little history about oils with Moridge Mfg (Grasshopper Lawn Mower) in McPherson. When I was the Mobil Oil rep for the area, we supplied this plant with all of their hydraulic oil. It was Mobil 1 15W-50. I went to work for XXXXXXX Oil and got a call to come in and talk with one of the R&D engineers. He brought in some failed hydraulic orbital motors from their test stands. He and Parker (Mfr of hyd pumps and motors) said that the failures were due to the lack of anti-wear in our Mobil 1. They were not happy. What had happened is the EPA mandated a change to the levels of sulfur and zinc allowed in engine oils to reduce emissions. So Mobil Oil changed the formulation of their Mobil 1 to meet the EPA mandates and didn’t tell us on the industrial side of the business. Because Grasshopper was using Mobil 1 in an industrial type application, it was overlooked by Mobil Oil to let Grasshopper know. Mobil Oil and XXXXX Oil lost the business. Mobil 1 was the initial fill hydraulic oil for 20-30 years. However, it is not recommended by me to use Mobil 1 any longer, because there is not enough anti-wear in the new EPA approved Mobil 1 oil to protect the orbital motors in your mower. All of the blogs you see on-line are going off of old history that Mobil 1 is the best product to use, but they are not getting the protection they need. Also, I would not use anything but a synthetic oil, even though it is more expensive. Synthetics will give better wear protection also. So what I recommend is a synthetic oil, loaded with anti-wear additives. This RP product is what I would use and what I recommend. It will give you all of the protection you will need in any temperature. http://www.royalpurple.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/RP-PDS-Max-Cycle-2019.pdf
I know GH recommends their hydro oil "only". Has anyone used say 5w-30 synthetic motor oil for an extended period? Or should I stay with GH's $$$$ oil?
If so, where is cheapest place to buy the GH oil? My local dealer wants $18.+ per quart.....


Here's some info I got from my neighbor that used to sell all of GH's oil to them (their factory is about 45 minutes from us):
A little history about oils with Moridge Mfg (Grasshopper Lawn Mower) in McPherson. When I was the Mobil Oil rep for the area, we supplied this plant with all of their hydraulic oil. It was Mobil 1 15W-50. I went to work for XXXXXXX Oil and got a call to come in and talk with one of the R&D engineers. He brought in some failed hydraulic orbital motors from their test stands. He and Parker (Mfr of hyd pumps and motors) said that the failures were due to the lack of anti-wear in our Mobil 1. They were not happy. What had happened is the EPA mandated a change to the levels of sulfur and zinc allowed in engine oils to reduce emissions. So Mobil Oil changed the formulation of their Mobil 1 to meet the EPA mandates and didn’t tell us on the industrial side of the business. Because Grasshopper was using Mobil 1 in an industrial type application, it was overlooked by Mobil Oil to let Grasshopper know. Mobil Oil and XXXXX Oil lost the business. Mobil 1 was the initial fill hydraulic oil for 20-30 years. However, it is not recommended by me to use Mobil 1 any longer, because there is not enough anti-wear in the new EPA approved Mobil 1 oil to protect the orbital motors in your mower. All of the blogs you see on-line are going off of old history that Mobil 1 is the best product to use, but they are not getting the protection they need. Also, I would not use anything but a synthetic oil, even though it is more expensive. Synthetics will give better wear protection also. So what I recommend is a synthetic oil, loaded with anti-wear additives. This RP product is what I would use and what I recommend. It will give you all of the protection you will need in any temperature. http://www.royalpurple.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/RP-PDS-Max-Cycle-2019.pdf

I guess the point is, it's the little things that make the difference. Make sure the little things are in the oil.

And you say, what does this have to do with Kubota..... it has a Kubota engine!

 

[SidecarFlip]

Irregardless, determine who made the transmission(s), be it Hydro-Gear or whomever and see what they recommend for a substitute lubricant besides the OEM label and purchase that. I can tell you (because my zero turn is Hydro-Gear) that you can buy their stupid expensive labeled oil or use 15-40 Rotella, which is what I've used for 10 years now. Change mine every 2 and the filters which, are expensive.

IMO, oil is like mouthwash, basically all the same, just colored different. So long as the lubricant meets the API certification pertaining to the OEM specs, it's all good.

Like the crap that Wolfman says don't use in a modern tractor, I agree. Fine for your old whipped out JD gear drive but not good for your HST... Hint, don't meet Kubota specs.

Lets not do yet another 'oil' thread, there are more than enough on here and elsewhere, already.

 

[D2Cat]

Well, Flip it sure beats hours and hours of corona virus info!

My mower takes two quarts and don't need to change until 1000 hours and it's less then 100 hrs. now. That means cost is not an issue.

And your "IMO, oil is like mouthwash, basically all the same, just colored different." is fine with me. I'll choose the expensive mouthwash and not be concerned about it.

 

[lugbolt]

Advertised on traveler 5 gal hydraulic oil says "meets kubota specification".

What specification? Kubota does not publish a specification aside from the IS032, 46, and AW32 hydraulic oil (which is not to be used in much anything but construction stuff). So whatever the "specification" is that they're referring to is beyond my (and kubota's) knowledge. Maybe the specification is the amount that fits in the bucket. Who knows.

a good example is a BX. People tend to use BX's as dozers or fellerbunchers or whatever. There is NO oil cooler on a BX. HST fluid runs hot, all the time. The only cooling it gets is the fan on the drive shaft (the FAMOUS HST FAN) and with that known, we also have seen that folks tend to let BX's idle and run at low speeds often, so there is little airflow, and little hydrualic pressure in the HST, so it makes heat and there's nothing to cool it off. On top of that, many don't even know the HST fan is missing/broken/fubar and just keep running. In those cases, ISO32 fluid is going to (guaranteed) cause issues because it is not designed to be used in that environment. There's a prime example of what I see on a daily basis; and also a good example of why super UDT is recommended for BX's (and other equipment as well). Not all equipment has the same "needs". The owner's/service manual tells you what needs to go in it; if one heeds the recommendations, they'll have little trouble. Wallet will be a little lighter but there is peace of mind that comes with it.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

here's a good one. 5-6 years ago, bought a JD rider, used, <100hrs on it, WON'T drive up a slight grade, HST 'shot', $800 for replacement+$$JD hrs for labor. I bought it for the B&S engine( $200 is a GREAT deal). Rider was spotless,so I do some research....buy some parts, spent 1 day to FIX the HST. Seems JD 'speced' Hydro-Gear to remove 2 magnets,clamp,drain port ! and use SAE30 oil( CHEAPER.....to JD).I removed HSt from rider, turned upsidedown to drain,cracked it open, drain more oil out,add clamps and magnets,reassemble,add 2 quarts+- of SYNTHETIC 20-50(?) oil, purge, install, ran GREAT, up and down hills fine !! Sold and made $1000 profit.
WHY it failed...SAE30 oil gets hot(cooling problem..),oil fumes escape, less oil. Run again, gets hotter as there's less oil, so more fumes leave. Run again, gets even hotter, even more oil fumes leave....it's a vicious spiral of death. Catch it soon enough ,before pump/motor damage and it CAN be repaired....

 

[GeoHorn]

here's a good one. 5-6 years ago, bought a JD rider, used, <100hrs on it, WON'T drive up a slight grade, HST 'shot', $800 for replacement+$$JD hrs for labor. I bought it for the B&S engine( $200 is a GREAT deal). Rider was spotless,so I do some research....buy some parts, spent 1 day to FIX the HST. Seems JD 'speced' Hydro-Gear to remove 2 magnets,clamp,drain port ! and use SAE30 oil( CHEAPER.....to JD).I removed HSt from rider, turned upsidedown to drain,cracked it open, drain more oil out,add clamps and magnets,reassemble,add 2 quarts+- of SYNTHETIC 20-50(?) oil, purge, install, ran GREAT, up and down hills fine !! Sold and made $1000 profit.
WHY it failed...SAE30 oil gets hot(cooling problem..),oil fumes escape, less oil. Run again, gets hotter as there's less oil, so more fumes leave. Run again, gets even hotter, even more oil fumes leave....it's a vicious spiral of death. Catch it soon enough ,before pump/motor damage and it CAN be repaired....

WONDERFUL anecdotes.

Still, it’s only anecdotes. Worth what anyone paid to read them,...and you sold it so it’s the next guy’s problem....Now.

I made my best purchase bargain when I haggled the day I bought my Kubota.

My next great bargain will be because I used what Kubota specified to service it so it lasts.

What B.S. it is when we read anecdotes as if they are scientific proof theses.

Not trying to “dis” the previous poster... just sayin’...

 

[SidecarFlip]

Well, Flip it sure beats hours and hours of corona virus info!

My mower takes two quarts and don't need to change until 1000 hours and it's less then 100 hrs. now. That means cost is not an issue.

And your "IMO, oil is like mouthwash, basically all the same, just colored different." is fine with me. I'll choose the expensive mouthwash and not be concerned about it.

I agree, besides with the Wuhan Flu, its not that you might not get it, it's when you get it so no point in dwelling on it. Every forum I'm on has it's 'Wuhan Flu' thread in one form or another. I'd say TBYNet is about the worst one but you already know that as you comment there like I do. I just use a different screen name there than I do here.

I see we are on Thread number 5 or 6 now. It keeps getting locked up Myself, I like the Harbor Freight Tools that don't suck thread in as much as I have a bunch of HF stuff, especially the Bauer 20 volt stuff. All good tools, cheap,

Back when I was a professional alcoholic, I preferred Lavoris. it tasted good and had a high percentage of alcohol and 'Minty fresh Scope isn't far behind. Amazing that a 10 year old can go to the supermarket and buy a bottle of mouthwash, take it home and get stoned drunk. No ID needed, just cash.

My M60 tank takes a bit more, like 3 quarts per transmission x 2. and without the Hydro-Gear fill kit, changing the oil is an exercise in cuss words. it's designed that way so you have to buy the kit initially (100 bucks) and they you can use it over and over with cheap oil but the first time they have you by the gonads and the filters are special size and threads so you are stuck buying them at 12 bucks a piece for a 1/2 pint spin on. What a rip off.

For better or worse the Wuhan Flu is here to stay. For how long and at what price to the economy or lives lost is anyone's guess.

My wife and I are practicing social distancing and basically living like the hermits we are. Mr. and Ms Hermit. No issue there.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Advertised on traveler 5 gal hydraulic oil says "meets kubota specification".

What specification? Kubota does not publish a specification aside from the IS032, 46, and AW32 hydraulic oil (which is not to be used in much anything but construction stuff). So whatever the "specification" is that they're referring to is beyond my (and kubota's) knowledge. Maybe the specification is the amount that fits in the bucket. Who knows.

a good example is a BX. People tend to use BX's as dozers or fellerbunchers or whatever. There is NO oil cooler on a BX. HST fluid runs hot, all the time. The only cooling it gets is the fan on the drive shaft (the FAMOUS HST FAN) and with that known, we also have seen that folks tend to let BX's idle and run at low speeds often, so there is little airflow, and little hydrualic pressure in the HST, so it makes heat and there's nothing to cool it off. On top of that, many don't even know the HST fan is missing/broken/fubar and just keep running. In those cases, ISO32 fluid is going to (guaranteed) cause issues because it is not designed to be used in that environment. There's a prime example of what I see on a daily basis; and also a good example of why super UDT is recommended for BX's (and other equipment as well). Not all equipment has the same "needs". The owner's/service manual tells you what needs to go in it; if one heeds the recommendations, they'll have little trouble. Wallet will be a little lighter but there is peace of mind that comes with it.

I am extremely careful about what I buy at TSC, especially lubricants. I won't touch 'Traveler' anything period. I do infrequently get T6 Rotella there but Menards is the place with the best price and my jobber beats anyone on hydraulic oil and grease plus they deliver. Of course what I use, Chevron THC All Weather synthetic is hard to find anyway. If I had an HST, I'd use the Kubota-Valvoline stuff but mine are gear drive. I like the cold weather flowability of the Chevron so I stick with it. Last year I had the back case off the M9 Cab (PTO seal) and it was as clean inside as new. Always been Chevron after the 50 hour change. Gets changed every fall after I'm done farming. Filters are always clean inside and the magnet never has much of anything on it either.

 

[SidecarFlip]

WONDERFUL anecdotes.

Still, it’s only anecdotes. Worth what anyone paid to read them,...and you sold it so it’s the next guy’s problem....Now.

I made my best purchase bargain when I haggled the day I bought my Kubota.

My next great bargain will be because I used what Kubota specified to service it so it lasts.

What B.S. it is when we read anecdotes as if they are scientific proof theses.

Not trying to “dis” the previous poster... just sayin’...

Besides, George, it's pre common rail...lol

 

[whitetiger]

Being bored and looking for something interesting to read, I got on a forum discussing all brands/types of lawnmowers. We've owned Grasshopper front mount deck for years and have actually never had to service the hydraulic steering motors. They are pretty much bullet proof. Hst oil replaced every 1000 hrs. so I've never actually purchased any amount of the required oil.

On this forum there is the typical owner astonished by the price of the oil and wants a less expensive substitute. The discussion begins, lots of opinions!

I just checked online and a 2 gal container of the factory Fluid Cool Temp Hydro oil is $143.45 at the dealer without price shopping.

There are three different hydros used over the years, the latest is the G2. Older ones used 3 gallons, the next version used 7 quarts, and the latest use 2 quarts. On the latest version the owner's manual says change at 1000 hours. The Gemini hydro guru suggest do not change the oil, but folks want a number so they say 1000hrs.

Now, this conversation is very much like one on OTT about Kubota's SuperUDT2 and it's cost. Some refuse to think it's just overpriced local tractor parts store products. So a poster comes on and has some facts. It's a joy to read.

" I know GH recommends their hydro oil "only". Has anyone used say 5w-30 synthetic motor oil for an extended period? Or should I stay with GH's $$$$ oil?
If so, where is cheapest place to buy the GH oil? My local dealer wants $18.+ per quart.....


Here's some info I got from my neighbor that used to sell all of GH's oil to them (their factory is about 45 minutes from us):
A little history about oils with Moridge Mfg (Grasshopper Lawn Mower) in McPherson. When I was the Mobil Oil rep for the area, we supplied this plant with all of their hydraulic oil. It was Mobil 1 15W-50. I went to work for XXXXXXX Oil and got a call to come in and talk with one of the R&D engineers. He brought in some failed hydraulic orbital motors from their test stands. He and Parker (Mfr of hyd pumps and motors) said that the failures were due to the lack of anti-wear in our Mobil 1. They were not happy. What had happened is the EPA mandated a change to the levels of sulfur and zinc allowed in engine oils to reduce emissions. So Mobil Oil changed the formulation of their Mobil 1 to meet the EPA mandates and didn’t tell us on the industrial side of the business. Because Grasshopper was using Mobil 1 in an industrial type application, it was overlooked by Mobil Oil to let Grasshopper know. Mobil Oil and XXXXX Oil lost the business. Mobil 1 was the initial fill hydraulic oil for 20-30 years. However, it is not recommended by me to use Mobil 1 any longer, because there is not enough anti-wear in the new EPA approved Mobil 1 oil to protect the orbital motors in your mower. All of the blogs you see on-line are going off of old history that Mobil 1 is the best product to use, but they are not getting the protection they need. Also, I would not use anything but a synthetic oil, even though it is more expensive. Synthetics will give better wear protection also. So what I recommend is a synthetic oil, loaded with anti-wear additives. This RP product is what I would use and what I recommend. It will give you all of the protection you will need in any temperature. http://www.royalpurple.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/RP-PDS-Max-Cycle-2019.pdf
I know GH recommends their hydro oil "only". Has anyone used say 5w-30 synthetic motor oil for an extended period? Or should I stay with GH's $$$$ oil?
If so, where is cheapest place to buy the GH oil? My local dealer wants $18.+ per quart.....


Here's some info I got from my neighbor that used to sell all of GH's oil to them (their factory is about 45 minutes from us):
A little history about oils with Moridge Mfg (Grasshopper Lawn Mower) in McPherson. When I was the Mobil Oil rep for the area, we supplied this plant with all of their hydraulic oil. It was Mobil 1 15W-50. I went to work for XXXXXXX Oil and got a call to come in and talk with one of the R&D engineers. He brought in some failed hydraulic orbital motors from their test stands. He and Parker (Mfr of hyd pumps and motors) said that the failures were due to the lack of anti-wear in our Mobil 1. They were not happy. What had happened is the EPA mandated a change to the levels of sulfur and zinc allowed in engine oils to reduce emissions. So Mobil Oil changed the formulation of their Mobil 1 to meet the EPA mandates and didn’t tell us on the industrial side of the business. Because Grasshopper was using Mobil 1 in an industrial type application, it was overlooked by Mobil Oil to let Grasshopper know. Mobil Oil and XXXXX Oil lost the business. Mobil 1 was the initial fill hydraulic oil for 20-30 years. However, it is not recommended by me to use Mobil 1 any longer, because there is not enough anti-wear in the new EPA approved Mobil 1 oil to protect the orbital motors in your mower. All of the blogs you see on-line are going off of old history that Mobil 1 is the best product to use, but they are not getting the protection they need. Also, I would not use anything but a synthetic oil, even though it is more expensive. Synthetics will give better wear protection also. So what I recommend is a synthetic oil, loaded with anti-wear additives. This RP product is what I would use and what I recommend. It will give you all of the protection you will need in any temperature. http://www.royalpurple.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/RP-PDS-Max-Cycle-2019.pdf

I guess the point is, it's the little things that make the difference. Make sure the little things are in the oil.

And you say, what does this have to do with Kubota..... it has a Kubota engine!

Actually, Exmark Hyro oil (109-9828) is Mobil 1 with a large shot of zinc in it. So much so that Exmark says do not use it as engine oil. Exmark went through the same situation as Grass Hooper with Mobil 1 in hydros and have this formulated specifically for them.
I use it in my Wright Stander which calls for Mobil 1 and Moms Grass Hopper.

 

[gkk2001]

Well, Flip it sure beats hours and hours of corona virus info!

My mower takes two quarts and don't need to change until 1000 hours and it's less then 100 hrs. now. That means cost is not an issue.

And your "IMO, oil is like mouthwash, basically all the same, just colored different." is fine with me. I'll choose the expensive mouthwash and not be concerned about it.

NAPA sells a UDT look alike (not UDT2) that offers a small savings. Are you using the Royal Purple in your engine, HST transmission or both? The pdf file states it can be used either or. If in the HST, is it a UDT2 look alike replacement? I will listen to anecdotes from someone that worked in the oil industry. Experience, seeing it first hand, and having insider knowledge is worth something to me.

 

[GeoHorn]

These conversations just amaze me.

Someone discusses the few bucks saved with off-brand oil that risks thousands of dollars of valuable equipment and the incredible amount of time it takes that equipment out-of-service while it’s being repaired using expensive parts and labor.

Pure idiocy... IMO.

But... It’s YOUR tractor. Do what you want with it. Whaddya care what others think? And what will you think when it’s in the Kubota dealer’s shop and you get that delay and that invoice? (It will cost you more to transport it to/from the shop than that cheap oil you bought.)

 

[gkk2001]

These conversations just amaze me.

Someone discusses the few bucks saved with off-brand oil that risks thousands of dollars of valuable equipment and the incredible amount of time it takes that equipment out-of-service while it’s being repaired using expensive parts and labor.

Pure idiocy... IMO.

But... It’s YOUR tractor. Do what you want with it. Whaddya care what others think? And what will you think when it’s in the Kubota dealer’s shop and you get that delay and that invoice? (It will cost you more to transport it to/from the shop than that cheap oil you bought.)

Do you call Royal Purple cheap? If so, tell me where you buy it.

 

[GeoHorn]

Do you call Royal Purple cheap? If so, tell me where you buy it.

No... I call that stuff “Fad”.