Hydraulic powered pump for concrete mixer

[Lowlysubaruguy]

The wheels on my tractor driven mind are now spinning out of control. yet one more thing I want to achieve before I ship my tractor over seas.

I have a pto driven concrete mixer that’s on a three point hitch. It’s worthless. Yeah it mixes concrete and a lot of it very well. But you can’t dump half the load with a three point hitch and by the time you get there the driveline u joints are so bound up it’s dangerous.

now that I have front auxiliary power was thinking a hydraulic driven pump and a SSQA front mounted three point hitch might be a solution. But I have no idea if I have the hydraulic power to do so or how to even compute what size pump to get, Any of you have some input here.

originally I was going to just put a harbor freight gas engine on it and Not use the pto for power but there’s still issues as you dump now that engines oils not where it needs to be.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

What size gas engine were you thinking of ? FWIW 'Commercial' motar mixers use a 9HP Honda. Google should be able to find you 'SSQA concrete mixers', see what they use for their hydraulic motor ( hint" download the parts manual ). Nice thing about running hydraulics is you'll have reverse !

 

[TheOldHokie]

The wheels on my tractor driven mind are now spinning out of control. yet one more thing I want to achieve before I ship my tractor over seas.

I have a pto driven concrete mixer that’s on a three point hitch. It’s worthless. Yeah it mixes concrete and a lot of it very well. But you can’t dump half the load with a three point hitch and by the time you get there the driveline u joints are so bound up it’s dangerous.

now that I have front auxiliary power was thinking a hydraulic driven pump and a SSQA front mounted three point hitch might be a solution. But I have no idea if I have the hydraulic power to do so or how to even compute what size pump to get, Any of you have some input here.

originally I was going to just put a harbor freight gas engine on it and Not use the pto for power but there’s still issues as you dump now that engines oils not where it needs to be.

You have pkenty of PTO horsepower power with a L4701. The immediate question is speed.

Since its originally PTO driven 540 RPM would be your starting design point. Your tractor has a maximum flow of roughly 8 GPM = 1848 cubic inches. To get 540 RPM out of the hydraulic motor you have to keep displacement under 1848/540 = 3.4 CID. Simple as that.

Now go shopping and see what you can find in that size range. A quick search turned up a 3.3 CID pump from Cross that would give you 100 lb-ft of torque at 2500 PSI. Seems like a match but price tag is $700. I think it needs more shopping


PS> I think it would be easier and less expensive to keep it 3pt mounted and use a rear remote to power the pump.

Dan

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

You have pkenty of PTO horsepower power with a L4701. The immediate question is speed.

Since its originally PTO driven 540 RPM would be your starting design point. Your tractor has a maximum flow of roughly 8 GPM = 1848 cubic inches. To get 540 RPM out of the hydraulic motor you have to keep displacement under 1848/540 = 3.4 CID. Simple as that.

Now go shopping and see what you can find in that size range. A quick search turned up a 3.3 CID pump from Cross that would give you 100 lb-ft of torque at 2500 PSI. Seems like a match but price tag is $700. I think it needs more shopping


PS> I think it would be easier and less expensive to keep it 3pt mounted and use a rear remote to power the pump.

Dan

You missed that he asked if he could run it off the third function valve on the loader.

 

[TheOldHokie]

You missed that he asked if he could run it off the third function valve on the loader.

I did not miss that. He has 8 GPM available and that is central. He can feed the pump off any valve he has on the tractor. Per my PS I think a rear remote makes more sense but thats his choice.

Regardles of what he choses he may well want to add a direct to tank return as recommended by the Lane Shark folks. The duty cycle on the mixer should be a lot shorter than a LS so that may not be a concern.

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

A more realistic price but only 75 lb-ft of torque. Might be all you need.

BM1 Hydraulic Motor - 3.0 (50) Displ., SAE -10 Ports, 1” Straight Key Shaft, 2-Bolt Flange, Type S

This hydraulic motor is 2030 PSI, SAE 10, 3.0 (50) CID built for small volume, high power medium load applications in a compact design. Explore today!

www.baileyhydraulics.com

Dan

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Some one on here (I think) fabricated a dual use auger/concrete mixer using third function power. That's my long term goal.

First, as @TheOldHokie noted, determine the speed needed. I doubt it is 540 rpm, probably closer to 100. There must be some speed reduction on that PTO drive.

If you use the appropriate size auger drive motor/gear, brackets can be attached to an SSQA plate. One or two are set to hang the drive for auger use. Another set support the drive with the shaft pointing up at an angle. The mixer drum is modified to mount on the drive shaft. The drive bearings are adequate to support the weight of a typical 1-2 sack drum. The loader can be lifted and dumped as necessary.

Edit, Sort of like this.

 

[Lowlysubaruguy]

I have used the mixer one time and never used it again. Cant dump the full hopper with a three point. It was great in theory and it really mixes a big batch of concrete I think four 90 pound bags. Ill build a chute for it as well so I can have four bags getting ready to re load while its mixing. Yet another story of a tguy who bought a tractor to do all the work and then works harder than ever before.

Ideally it would be loader mounted for multiple reasons. First is the three point hitch wont dump the full mixer cant get enough angle. next is tractor neck ( you all know about the stiff tractor neck from looking behind you) Pouring concrete is often a precision event the ability to watch straight in front of you while dumping concrete is really important. And its likely the backhoe will be on the rear at the time a lot of this is going on because we wont be digging more holes than we can fill so im not worried about people and animals getting injured in them. My dogs run around there at night chasing vermin.

Man do my dogs love it there. Perpetual jungle with critters galore.

So loader mounted is my goal no PTO

 

[TheOldHokie]

I have used the mixer one time and never used it again. Cant dump the full hopper with a three point. It was great in theory and it really mixes a big batch of concrete I think four 90 pound bags. Ill build a chute for it as well so I can have four bags getting ready to re load while its mixing. Yet another story of a tguy who bought a tractor to do all the work and then works harder than ever before.

Ideally it would be loader mounted for multiple reasons. First is the three point hitch wont dump the full mixer cant get enough angle. next is tractor neck ( you all know about the stiff tractor neck from looking behind you) Pouring concrete is often a precision event the ability to watch straight in front of you while dumping concrete is really important. And its likely the backhoe will be on the rear at the time a lot of this is going on because we wont be digging more holes than we can fill so im not worried about people and animals getting injured in them. My dogs run around there at night chasing vermin.

Man do my dogs love it there. Perpetual jungle with critters galore.

So loader mounted is my goal no PTO

Then go SSQA.

Dan

 

[hagrid]

I should just keep my mouf shut...

We had a 3-pointe PTO driven mixer for the 8N back in the day. Even had a single acting hydraulic cylinder for the top link.

It was understood that the driveline geometry wouldn't support being live during dumping because of joint articulation constraints. You simply disengaged the PTO and dumped the quantity you desired via the top link action.

Mebbe pictures will help me understand the shortcomings?

 

[TheOldHokie]

I should just keep my mouf shut...

We had a 3-pointe PTO driven mixer for the 8N back in the day. Even had a single acting hydraulic cylinder for the top link.

It was understood that the driveline geometry wouldn't support being live during dumping because of joint articulation constraints. You simply disengaged the PTO and dumped the quantity you desired via the top link action.

Mebbe pictures will help me understand the shortcomings?

Makes sense. If he converts to hydraulic presumably the pump will be mounted on the mixer gearbox and there wont be a PTO shaft to constrain the dump angle.

N'est-ce pas??

Dan

 

[GreensvilleJay]

found on web 'somewhere'....... sure looks simple to build ! Have seen motors for $250 that'll spin a drum( rated as 2.2cuin/12hp ). That yellow drum will spin using a 9HP honda,6:1 red then belt drive,real common 'motar mixer'

 

[TheOldHokie]

found on web 'somewhere'....... sure looks simple to build ! Have seen motors for $250 that'll spin a drum( rated as 2.2cuin/12hp ). That yellow drum will spin using a 9HP honda,6:1 red then belt drive,real common 'motar mixer'

PTO powerd mixers have an entirely different drive line design.

Dan

 

[GreensvilleJay]

yeah PTO super simple..reduce 540 to about 60 RPM ( about 9:1 reduction)
No matter what powers the drum(gas,hydraulic, PTO) the goal is to spin the drum fairly slow.

As for PTO driven one, there are 'special' high angle Ujoints for the PTO shaft.

 

[TheOldHokie]

yeah PTO super simple..reduce 540 to about 60 RPM ( about 9:1 reduction)
No matter what powers the drum(gas,hydraulic, PTO) the goal is to spin the drum fairly slow.

As for PTO driven one, there are 'special' high angle Ujoints for the PTO shaft.

All he needs to do is put a 540 RPM hydraulic motor on the input shaft of the mixer. He can do that with a shaft couoler and torque arm.

Dan

 

[hagrid]

N'est-ce pas??

Dan

Indeed.

I guess I'm suffering from a case of "the juice isn't worth the squeeze" regarding the conversion effort.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

hay ,some guys like to bodge !!! though a proper PTO shaft is an easy solution.

 

[Lowlysubaruguy]

found on web 'somewhere'....... sure looks simple to build ! Have seen motors for $250 that'll spin a drum( rated as 2.2cuin/12hp ). That yellow drum will spin using a 9HP honda,6:1 red then belt drive,real common 'motar mixer'

This is what im going to do. I bought this mixer hoping to be able to mix larger quantities and have an affective dump method. What I got was a big mixer that took more work getting the concrete out than doing it in wheel barrows. Turning the PTO off means your digging concrete out of the mixer and the rear 3 point hitch mounted way is worthless cant dump half the drum.

Mounting it to a three point skid steer plate is the solution now that I have hydraulics up front looks like theres a number of affordable options. Too bad I didnt do this a few years ago when I needed it here. But where its headed now it will be in use we have 2000 feet of fence coming and footers for a large greenhouse in the works. From there ill die of old age created from dragging a tractor over. yet another tractor story in my life seems like I sure work a lot harder because of tractors than tractors doing more of my work.

 

[TheOldHokie]

This is what im going to do. I bought this mixer hoping to be able to mix larger quantities and have an affective dump method. What I got was a big mixer that took more work getting the concrete out than doing it in wheel barrows. Turning the PTO off means your digging concrete out of the mixer and the rear 3 point hitch mounted way is worthless cant dump half the drum.

Mounting it to a three point skid steer plate is the solution now that I have hydraulics up front looks like theres a number of affordable options. Too bad I didnt do this a few years ago when I needed it here. But where its headed now it will be in use we have 2000 feet of fence coming and footers for a large greenhouse in the works. From there ill die of old age created from dragging a tractor over. yet another tractor story in my life seems like I sure work a lot harder because of tractors than tractors doing more of my work.

Should be EZ-PZ and not terribly expensive. What type of input shaft on the mixer? Is it 1-3,/8 spline, round with key, or something else? Can you post a picture of the PTO hookup on the mixer?

Dan

 

[GreensvilleJay]

seems most of the 3ph mixers do NOT allow you to spin to empty ! Even watch a couple videos... man that is a NO SALE to me. Bodging into SSQA looks real GOOD now. Probably need so kind of semi adjustable 'flow control' to fine tune the speed ? Maybe $500 in motor +'stuff'.