Hydraulic issue with bx23s

[etherfarms]

I have a bx23s with ~400 hours on it. About 10 hours ago, it developed a pinhole leak in one of the hydraulic hoses connecting to my WR Long 3rd function. Replaced both hoses coming from the back of the tractor to the 3rd function.

Then the hoses started "knocking" when the tractor was underway and the fluid began foaming in the reservoir. I did my 400 hour service at that time and replaced the hydraulic filter, the hydraulic screen filter (small cylinder) and drained + replaced all fluid. I also replaced a smaller hydraulic line that was rubbed by my rear tire.

The knocking seems to have gone away, but the machine feels as if it is vibrating more than normal and the fluid in the reservoir is still a bit foamy (lasts for maybe 5 - 10 seconds) after I turn off the machine.

I do not have an implement for the 3rd function yet, so no clear way to bleed those lines. Is there another way if this is caused by air?

Is this normal? I don't think I ever checked my hydraulic fluid after I drove so I am not sure. Am I missing something obvious to fix this?

 

[Dave_eng]

I have a bx23s with ~400 hours on it. About 10 hours ago, it developed a pinhole leak in one of the hydraulic hoses connecting to my WR Long 3rd function. Replaced both hoses coming from the back of the tractor to the 3rd function.

Then the hoses started "knocking" when the tractor was underway and the fluid began foaming in the reservoir. I did my 400 hour service at that time and replaced the hydraulic filter, the hydraulic screen filter (small cylinder) and drained + replaced all fluid. I also replaced a smaller hydraulic line that was rubbed by my rear tire.

The knocking seems to have gone away, but the machine feels as if it is vibrating more than normal and the fluid in the reservoir is still a bit foamy (lasts for maybe 5 - 10 seconds) after I turn off the machine.

I do not have an implement for the 3rd function yet, so no clear way to bleed those lines. Is there another way if this is caused by air?

Is this normal? I don't think I ever checked my hydraulic fluid after I drove so I am not sure. Am I missing something obvious to fix this?

Who installed the 3rd function as something seems to not be plumbed correctly?

Dave

 

[etherfarms]

Who installed the 3rd function as something seems to not be plumbed correctly?

Dave

It was installed by the dealer when I bought the tractor (~2 yrs ago). Hasn't caused any problems until these sudden issues.

 

[Dave_eng]

It was installed by the dealer when I bought the tractor (~2 yrs ago). Hasn't caused any problems until these sudden issues.

If I understand the sequence of events.....

Installed two years ago by dealer and worked great.
Developed a leak in a hose and you replaced both 3rd function hoses....

You also replaced another hose worn by a rubbing tire.

Then the problem started.......

Could you have a hose put in the wrong place during the recent repair?

Foamy oil suggests a relief valve is trying to deal with a constant flow that should not be happening.

Dave

 

[etherfarms]

When you lay it out like that, your theory seems pretty compelling! I will admit I know very little about tractors.

Do you know of a good visual resource that lays out the hose connections?

If not, how much damage would I do by swapping the two connections at the 3rd function and running it (if this is NOT the issue) while monitoring for foam?

If I understand the sequence of events.....

Installed two years ago by dealer and worked great.
Developed a leak in a hose and you replaced both 3rd function hoses....

You also replaced another hose worn by a rubbing tire.

Then the problem started.......

Could you have a hose put in the wrong place during the recent repair?

Foamy oil suggests a relief valve is trying to deal with a constant flow that should not be happening.

Dave

 

[Dave_eng]

When you lay it out like that, your theory seems pretty compelling! I will admit I know very little about tractors.

Do you know of a good visual resource that lays out the hose connections?

If not, how much damage would I do by swapping the two connections at the 3rd function and running it (if this is NOT the issue) while monitoring for foam?

Another generator of foam could be a suction side of the hydraulic pump air leak.

The small hose you replaced because of tire contact is the one getting my attention.

Can you provide any details on your third function kit so I can look at the instructions.

Since right now the third function hoses do not connect to anything, I would want to see how the third function is tied into the loader valve.

When you replaced the three hoses, did you do one at a time or remove all then reinstall the new ones which increases the likelihood of a mistake.

I believe your thrid function valve actually has 4 hoses connected to it. Two which go to the front of the loader for say a grapple. Two which tie the third function valve into the tractor's hydraulics. The third function valve should have ports identified with cast in letters such a P or PB or T. These lines are critical in terms of where they connect to your tractor and getting them mixed up can cause great problems.

Dave

 

[etherfarms]

Really appreciate all your help here! This has been far more helpful than my dealer so far!

It's a WR Long kit for the bx23s.

I took both hoses off that were running from 3rd function to the back of the tractor. I then replaced at same time.

The smaller hose that I replaced later was an extender to make one of those hoses connecting to the 3rd function reach to the back of the tractor. It ran from under the tractor, into the wheel well and then under the wheel well (where the controls are to operate the 3pt + speed of tractor). It does't connect directly to the transmission/hydraulic well (if that's the correct terminology).

Possibly a stupid question - what's the suction side of the hydraulic pump?

Another generator of foam could be a suction side of the hydraulic pump air leak.

The small hose you replaced because of tire contact is the one getting my attention.

Can you provide any details on your third function kit so I can look at the instructions.

Since right now the third function hoses do not connect to anything, I would want to see how the third function is tied into the loader valve.

When you replaced the three hoses, did you do one at a time or remove all then reinstall the new ones which increases the likelihood of a mistake.

Dave

 

[Dave_eng]

Really appreciate all your help here! This has been far more helpful than my dealer so far!

It's a WR Long kit for the bx23s.

I took both hoses off that were running from 3rd function to the back of the tractor. I then replaced at same time.

The smaller hose that I replaced later was an extender to make one of those hoses connecting to the 3rd function reach to the back of the tractor. It ran from under the tractor, into the wheel well and then under the wheel well (where the controls are to operate the 3pt + speed of tractor). It does't connect directly to the transmission/hydraulic well (if that's the correct terminology).

Possibly a stupid question - what's the suction side of the hydraulic pump?

Any pump be it hydraulic, water, gasoline, moves fluid by creating a pressure difference between two points in the system.

On your tractor, the hydraulic pump sucks oil from the reservoir/transmission, this oil goes through the pump where its pressure is increased or magnified and then sent out to cylinders or steering valves to use to performs tasks.

Think of trying to suck up a soft drink using a straw with a pin hole in it. You will mostly suck up air and perhaps a little fluid because the integrity of the suction side of your mouth, the straw, is leaking air into itself.

The same can happen in a hydraulic system. As the pump tries to suck fluid, if air is leaking into the suction pipe, a little fluid is drawn to the pump along with a lot of air.

My gut reaction is that you have switched two of the lines tying the 3rd function to the loader valve.

To see the loader valve clearly, it may be necessary to remove a rear wheel but i do not know your tractor. What would be helpful is if you could see the markings on the loader valve and on the third function valve so we can verify that the lines are going to the correct places.

Dave

 

[B737]

Does your rear block look anything like this?
(yours is BX23, im not sure how many similarities they share, should be close?)
BX2350

BX2350

 

[etherfarms]

Do these pictures help clarify at all/tell if I have switched something? I have marked them line A and line B (as that appears to be the marking on the 3rd function). Line A goes back under the seat and Line B ends under the wheel well. I am not sure if that is the correct positioning.

@B737 mine looks similar, based on your picture.

Any pump be it hydraulic, water, gasoline, moves fluid by creating a pressure difference between two points in the system.

On your tractor, the hydraulic pump sucks oil from the reservoir/transmission, this oil goes through the pump where its pressure is increased or magnified and then sent out to cylinders or steering valves to use to performs tasks.

Think of trying to suck up a soft drink using a straw with a pin hole in it. You will mostly suck up air and perhaps a little fluid because the integrity of the suction side of your mouth, the straw, is leaking air into itself.

The same can happen in a hydraulic system. As the pump tries to suck fluid, if air is leaking into the suction pipe, a little fluid is drawn to the pump along with a lot of air.

My gut reaction is that you have switched two of the lines tying the 3rd function to the loader valve.

To see the loader valve clearly, it may be necessary to remove a rear wheel but i do not know your tractor. What would be helpful is if you could see the markings on the loader valve and on the third function valve so we can verify that the lines are going to the correct places.

Dave

 

[Dave_eng]

The important markings on the third function valve will be P & T.

A & B are the simple lines going to a grapple or such.

The P & T will be on the under surface of the 3rd function valve.

Can you please check this.

Dave

 

[etherfarms]

Thanks - I will check this out tonight when I am home! Nice to have a diagram that lays it out so clearly.

The important markings on the third function valve will be P & T.

A & B are the simple lines going to a grapple or such.

The P & T will be on the under surface of the 3rd function valve.

Can you please check this.

View attachment 44917

Dave

 

[B737]

In your BX23S book there will be a picture like the one i posted above that will lay out which port is what on the rear block. That will help with where Dave is pointing you.
@eserv is also a wealth of info with these 3rd functions, hopefully he will drop by

as an aside, it sucks the dealer let the machine out of the shop with a hose hitting the tire
also, you said you dont have a 3rd function implement yet, so do you know if this valve functions properly? I did not have an implement either when i installed mine. To test the function of the valve I had a hose made at local hose shop to connect the 3rd function to bucket dump to check my work.

Its deceiving how different all the BX variants can be. I also learned from Eserv that its important where in line the 3rd function falls out in relation to the loader, or you will use the grapple and the loader will lose pressure. my landpride kit had two different install procedures and one of them was incorrect (eserv caught it).

 

[etherfarms]

Appreciate your help @B737 and @Dave_eng. In examining it more closer, it seems I might have a leak coming from the oil filter (cylinder in back of hydraulics. you can see small oil spot on ground and where it looks like it sprayed on the 3pt hitch - picture attached).

There is a bit of wiggle room in it and appears to be a slow leak. In looking at the parts diagram, I see an o-ring which seems to be missing. I have two questions:

1. is it possible that this would cause air in the system?
2. Is that o-ring deeper in the system and that's why I don't see it or should it be out near the entrance and I am missing it?

I can't tighten the bolt on the filter anymore - it's snug, but there's still a tiny wiggle in the filter.

 

[etherfarms]

I have confirmed that I’m definitely missing the o-ring in that filter screen. I am assuming that is causing my issue and am waiting on a new o-ring.