Furnace Oil -> Tractor

Mingy

New member

Equipment
L3010 backhoe FEL, B2300, M9000
Jul 27, 2010
106
0
0
Ontario
Hello

I recently switched to a geothermal heating system from oil. As luck would have it, prior to pulling out the boiler, my oil guy filled me up with about 700 liters of furnace oil.

Now I want to empty the oil tanks. It struck me that I could probably use it up fairly quickly if I burnt in in my tractors. Based on what I have read, this is doable but the furnace oil may be a little dirtier.

Does this sound like a reasonable way to dispose of all this oil?

By the way - the geothermal is amazing. Saved about 80% of my heating costs! :)
 

gktilton

New member

Equipment
79 B7100 w/ FEL, Deere 261 Finish Mwr, Woods M4 Bush Hg, Potato Plow, Cultivator
May 5, 2010
230
2
0
Hooksett, NH
I know nothing about using Heating oil instead of diesel, but I would be interest in more info on your GeoThermal. Like:

How much space your heating?
Average outside temp?
Total cost to install?

I did the math 10 years ago and it looked like more than a 20 year payback, but now my boiler is 10 years older and only about 5 more usable years in it, so that changes my numbers.
 

Blkvoodoo

Member

Equipment
B2400, LA352, RC60, Cammond Box Blade
Mar 27, 2010
143
4
18
Zebulon NC
Why do I keep reading posts from owners wanting to know if it's OK to burn:

Floor polish
Liquified petroleum jelly
Baby oil
Heating oil
Old transformer oil
Whale blubber
Used gear oil run through a cheese-cloth
Hand lotion
Lanolin
Cod liver oil
and ear wax

in their Kubota tractors?

What is wrong with using #2 Light Diesel Fuel?
Well Vic, my Ear Wax conversion actually did pretty well, right up to the point I ran out, after asking a few folks at the mall if I could have theirs, I was escorted off the property.....







seriously, in answer to the Op's question,

heating fuel is closer to ( dirty)kerosine, YES, it'll run, right up til the point it doesn't. kero doesn't have the lubrication properties that #2 diesel does, keeping the injection pump and injectors lubed properly. ( ULSD Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel has it's own issues on the older stuff )

not recommended in something you want to use regularly and rely on.
 

Mingy

New member

Equipment
L3010 backhoe FEL, B2300, M9000
Jul 27, 2010
106
0
0
Ontario
Why do I keep reading posts from owners wanting to know if it's OK to burn:

Floor polish
Liquified petroleum jelly
Baby oil
Heating oil
Old transformer oil
Whale blubber
Used gear oil run through a cheese-cloth
Hand lotion
Lanolin
Cod liver oil
and ear wax

in their Kubota tractors?

What is wrong with using #2 Light Diesel Fuel?

Vic

Perhaps you didn't actually read my post. I have to dispose of 700 liters of fuel oil. I have read elsewhere that heating oil and diesel oil are almost identical but treated differently for tax reasons.

I was asking for advice, not sarcasm. That type of response is, at best useless, at worst discourages people from asking questions. Maybe we should answer the same for anybody asking why their tractor won't stop when you turn off the key? Of can I use something cheaper than Super UDT?

Most of use know that diesels are best fueled with diesel fuel but that doesn't stop people from successfully running them on waste frying oil, etc.. Not what I would do, but people do.

gktilton: I'll open a geothermal discussion in the 'Off Topic' Forum.
 

eserv

Well-known member

Equipment
BX24, A1000 Kubota Generator
May 27, 2009
2,139
138
63
Hardisty, Alberta
There must be someone near you who still uses furnace oil that you could sell it to? I do know of people using it in their tractors but even one ruined injector will make that 700 liters look pretty expensive!
Ed
 

MagKarl

New member

Equipment
L245DT
Aug 2, 2010
663
0
0
Olympia, WA
From what I understand, you are correct that home heating oil, diesel, and kerosene are all very similar. #1 diesel and and kerosene are the same thing and you may already be getting a blend of #1 in winter a lot of places. I would filter it and run it in my pickup and tractor if I were in your shoes. I would take extra precaution to assure it is clean and no water, maybe siphon or pump off the top instead of draining the tank from the bottom? If you are paranoid, mix it with #2 diesel. If you are worried about lubricity, add bio or 2 stroke oil, etc. No way I would throw away fuel. My $0.02.
 

B7100

New member

Equipment
B7100,B7100 with Backhoe and FEL, Goldoni Quad 20
Feb 11, 2010
422
2
0
Wales
Look what this website says about Red Diesel and make your own mind up!
I have always gone to the local heating oil suplier and bought a couple of jerry cans at a time and just asked for "red" so telling what I got and have never had to rebuild one of my own engines!

http://www.crownoil.co.uk/
dave
 

steve l

New member

Equipment
2 m9000,9540 all cabgmd700 kuhn 605m vermeer,r23a vermeer rake,468 jd baler,
Dec 29, 2010
77
0
0
57
bullard,texas 75757
Mingy, I read your post. I read all the posts, and with the exception of my ear wax comment, which was funny and witty, I've been asked about the use of every single one of those products as a possible fuel source in a Kubota tractor with a diesel engine and at least one injector.

I'm sorry if you felt my response was less than what you expected, but it won't change my professional opinion as diesel Service Tech, and that is this:

It ain't worth it.

It could be because I fix Kubota tractors all day and find them with plugged injectors, choked fuel filters and restricted exhaust systems. It could be that I find myself wondering (as I tally the repair estimate) why an owner would want to use any thing but the correct grade of fuel in their tractors engine; especially given the high repair costs associated with and the long term disadvantages of using anything but the right stuff.

I do agree with Eserv that selling the oil to a residential home heating oil neighbor would be a far better way to liquidate the 700 litres of fuel you have remaining from your conversion.

Your L-3010 has a 35 litre fuel tank and it delivers an average varying engine performance and fuel consumption rating of about 1.8 litres of fuel per hour.

Think about how many hours of seat time you rack up on your Kubota each year.
Then check your tractors hour meter.
Add 400 to it.
It'll be about that long before that 3 cylinder, very fuel efficient Kubota burns all that heating oil up!


Here's a great read entitled "About Diesel Fuel", by Bill King, published 12/8/2000.



With all of the recent talk about using Kerosene (number 1 diesel) as a motor fuel and the differences between grades of Diesel Fuel, I thought I would pass along to the group my short course on refined petroleum. In the hierarchy of refined petroleum products from highest to lowest (from a gaseous state, then liquid, to solid) are: natural gas; "wet" natural gas; high-octane aviation gasoline; automotive gasoline; finished kerosene; home heating oil; diesel fuel; industrial fuel oil; finished lubricating oils; waxes and paraffin's; gas oil; coke and finally asphalt. Also moving from highest to lowest, the viscosity, or stiffness, of the refined product increases. For example, at room temperature, automotive gasoline flows much more freely than finished lubricating oils.

Diesel fuel lies in the middle of the refined petroleum hierarchy and is considered one of the middle distillates -- slightly heavier than kerosene and slightly lighter than industrial (bunker) fuel oil. Like automotive gasoline, diesel fuel is refined into several sub-categories or grades. From highest to lowest viscosity are Number 1 Diesel Fuel (1-D), Number 2 Diesel
Fuel (2-D) and Number 4 Fuel Diesel (4-D). There used to be a Number 3 Diesel Fuel (3-D), but it is no longer refined.

Number 4 Fuel Diesel Fuel is slightly lighter than industrial fuel oil and is used in low and medium speed engines that operate at a constant or near-constant speed, such as stationary power plants or railroad locomotives. Even though Number 4 Fuel Diesel Fuel has an ignition quality similar to Numbers 1 and 2 Diesel Fuel, it is too thick to work well in a truck engine where the load on the engine is constantly changing and requires varying amounts of fuel to be injected into the cylinders.

Just above Diesel fuel in the middle distillate category is Kerosene. Like Number 4 Fuel Diesel Fuel, Kerosene has an ignition quality similar to Numbers 1 and 2 Diesel Fuel. But unlike Number 4 Fuel Diesel Fuel, which is too thick, Kerosene is too thin to work well as an engine fuel. The thickness of the diesel fuel itself acts as a lubricant to prevent wear of the engine's fuel injectors. This lubricating quality of diesel fuel is why some Old-timers still refer to it as "Diesel Oil." Adding a common lubricant to Kerosene usually decreases its ignition quality.

Numbers 1 and 2 Diesel Fuel are the primary fuel for mobile diesel engine applications. Number 1 Diesel Fuel is commonly labeled at the pump as "Premium Diesel" or with a Cetane number of 44 or 45. It is not as thick as Number 2 Diesel Fuel and for this reason is the choice for motorists during the cold winter months. The disadvantage of Number 1 Diesel Fuel is that it does not have the lubricating qualities associated with Number 2 Diesel Fuel. While Number 2 Diesel Fuel has a higher lubricating quality than Number 1 Diesel, its thickness can cause rough starting in a cold engine and rough-running in cold weather. Number 2 Diesel Fuel is usually labeled at the pump with a Cetane number of 40.

Home Heating Oil is closest to Number 2 Diesel Fuel in ignition quality and lubricating ability. But before anybody rushes to put this non-road taxed fuel in their truck or tractor, consider this: refiners don't intend Home Heating Oil to be used in an internal combustion engine and the furnace fuel that is sitting in your basement tank may or may not have the smoke suppressants, ignition accelerators and biocides to kill fungi and bacteria that we generally assume to be present in the Diesel Fuel at the pump.


Cetane:

#2 diesel should have a cetane rating between 40-55. If I remember correctly, nothing lower then 45 should be run in most common diesel engines, lest it's non-turbo. The higher the cetane rating the better, especially on cold days, as it will make starting an easier process. In the winter, look for the highest number you can find. Also ensure you are using a good additive (Power Service Grey bottle, I have personally had good luck with..it not only has the antigel/anti wax agent, but it also provides for good lubrication of the injector pump, and thus should also keep the rest of the system 'good to go').

Dump Motor Oil or ATF in your Diesel ? by Peter Hipson 11/10/2003

There is *no* advantage to adding motor oil, or transmission fluid to diesel fuel. Period.

There are disadvantages to doing this however, including damaged injector pumps (especially with turbo diesel electronic pumps), clogged filters, etc.

The manufacturer of our injector pumps strongly cautions against using either when their pumps are used.

There are many additives that are approved, and are in fact *much* cheaper than either motor oil, or transmission fluid. As an added bonus, these additives really work!

Most diesel fuels and engines don't need additives, but if you feel the urge to pour something else in the tank besides diesel fule, use a product that is *specifically designed for the purpose*.

Kerosene is added to diesel fuel by some suppliers, though in small quantitites. Kerosene has virtually no lubrication qualities--adding more (and an essientially unknown amount, since you don't know if or how much has already been added by the supplier!) is a sure way to cut the life of your injector pump.

Kerosene is routinely added to home heating oil, in large quantities.

The furnace doesn't know, or care. The furnace oil pump does not have the same clearances (they are more crude, greater clearances, lower pressure...) and the kerosene won't hurt them. Most will (and often do) run on straight kerosene, if the oil tank is outside, the mix will be either 50/50 or straight kerosene.

Kerosene doesn't have the same heat values either, you won't get the same amount of power from a gallon of kerosene as from heating oil, or diesel fuel.

#2 diesel fuel is basically #2 heating oil, with the exception that rather than adding kerosene the supplier will add an anti-gel additive.

Costs more, but then it sells for more. In the summer, there is virtually no difference, other than legal issues. (again well debated).

Bottom line:

A wise owner will add nothing to the fuel tank that is not designed for the purpose.

People who pour whatever they have at hand (motor oil, atf, gasoline additives (yes, some do!)) simply add to the profits that repair shops (such as mine) make.

It is a big buck job to replace the injector pump, you don't want to do it any more than necessary.
very informative article
 

Kubota Newbie

Active member

Equipment
M4500, New Idea Cut-Ditioner, JD 14T Baler, IH "Plow Chief" plows, Oliver Rake
Dec 28, 2010
533
81
28
Mount Vernon, Ohio
I don't know if what you fellows up in Canada get for home heating oil is different than the stuff we here in the lower 48 get or not. BUT, the stuff we get down here is the dirtiest, stinkiest, nasty rotten stuff you can imagine getting out of a tank. There's no way I'd put it in anything with an injector pump.
 

pat331

New member

Equipment
L35, mower, bushhog, cement mixer, grader, boxblade, forks, posthole digger
Mar 31, 2009
298
3
0
Ft. Worth, TX
Vic, thanks for taking the time to write a very informative article. I certainly learned something tonight.
 

Mingy

New member

Equipment
L3010 backhoe FEL, B2300, M9000
Jul 27, 2010
106
0
0
Ontario
Put a add on Guelph or Halton Kijiji and I'm sure someone will buy the oil from you.
Thats a good idea - I'll have to figure out a way to make sure they don't make a mess though.
 

cabu

New member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
Kuno B1-15 (B1502DT)
May 24, 2009
736
2
0
Germany, Oyten
Hello,

the difference between the heating oil and diesel is the color. The heating oil is dyed. The reason is just, that the heating oil is sold with less tax. So if you would use the heating oil for a car/truck/traktor which is used on the road you are a little criminal because you don't pay your tax. But if you use it for anything else, than driving around, it's OK. So simple.

Even that I am from germany, I know something about it because I informed me some time ago about electricity/heat generator powerd by an old diesel engine, Lister. And in forums in the US, they where also talking about that topic. All around the world they are using for this stationary diesel engines heating oil, because it's much cheaper than taxed diesel. Or nowadays also veggie-oil, it's even more cheaper. And the engines run the same amount of operating hours as they would run with diesel. The reason is just, the are well maintained and the oil is filtered!

The above mentioned possibility, that someones heating oil looks like crued oil fresh out the drill hole, maybe he should change his supplier to save his oilheater!!
So, if you still looking forward to suck out all the oil from the tank, you will also get some parts from the ground which have sedimented over the years. Just filter it before you use it in an engine.

Hope that helps

carl
 
Last edited:

Kytim

New member

Equipment
B6000DT, B7100DT,Snowplow, RM360, Scoop, Cultivator, Carryall,Disk, plow
Aug 14, 2009
848
12
0
Western Ky
Looks like to me it is a good opportunity to build a new shop building with a fuel oil heating system that would keep your kubota tractor warm and snuggly!

You know, kill two birds with one stone! Who wouldn't want a new heated shop?

Kytim:D
 

Mingy

New member

Equipment
L3010 backhoe FEL, B2300, M9000
Jul 27, 2010
106
0
0
Ontario
Actually the plan is to build a 3,000 sq foot heated shop to replace the POS Quonset hut I put up 10 years ago.

I will likely go with propane instead of oil, however.

By the way. Don't buy a Quonset hut. One of the life decisions I made which makes me angry every time I think of it.
 

renman

New member

Equipment
L3130 LA723
Oct 23, 2010
4
0
0
Youngstown, OH
For what it's worth, my two cents:

Had the same issue, new gas furnace installed with half a tank of oil left. Everybody I asked either knew somebody that wanted the oil or wanted it themselves. "As soon as I get" - 55 gallon drum, transfer pump, the time (pick one or more) After a year of that, I called a waste oil place to just come and get it. Never returned my call even though I would have paid them to haul it away. The receipt I had for the oil said "dyed diesel fuel" so I thought I'll just get my own drums and pump and be over it. I add a little Power Service to it and so far all is well.

BTW, don't run it in any on-road vehicle. The government will ruin your day if you get caught. (that's why it's dyed, ya know ?)