friction modifiers.

summit1966

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L2850
Sep 26, 2017
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Australia, VIC Melbourne
Hi all,
Hope everyone had a great Christmas.

I own a L2850 shuttle shift 4wd with FEL, just wondering if its safe to use an oil additive such as a friction modifier in the transmissions hydraulic fluid. Will it effect the clutch or FEL on the machine - not sure if its a wet or dry clutch? Wanting run a "smooth shift" additive to help with shuttle shift shifting.

Thanks in advance.
 

mikester

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M59 TLB
Oct 21, 2017
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www.divergentstuff.ca
Hi all,
Hope everyone had a great Christmas.

I own a L2850 shuttle shift 4wd with FEL, just wondering if its safe to use an oil additive such as a friction modifier in the transmissions hydraulic fluid. Will it effect the clutch or FEL on the machine - not sure if its a wet or dry clutch? Wanting run a "smooth shift" additive to help with shuttle shift shifting.

Thanks in advance.
I don’t know of any manufacturers recommending ANY kind of snake oil additives.

I know on some CVT’s OEM’s say DO NOT use energy conserving oils because the friction modifiers are detrimental to performance and lifespan of the tranny.
 

rjcorazza

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Mar 9, 2016
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Haven’t read of anyone adding friction modifiers to Kubota transmissions. Personally I would not consider it. I would use the latest recommended Kubota fluid like the synthetic Sudt/2 if appropriate for a GST machine. Many HST users report smoother and quieter transmissions after switching to it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

85Hokie

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Summit,

I would agree with rjcorazza - dont add anything there.......something in fuel, yes! Hydraulics....no.

What are your options there in Melbourne from Kubota?
 

Daren Todd

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I agree with the others. For the price of a transmission rebuild, I would be leary about putting an additive in one of the shuttle shift transmissions. Mystic JT-5 or Kubota sudt or sudt-2 would be my go to for one of those transmissions.

Had a friend years ago, dump a friction modifier in his transmission on a four wheeler thinking he was doing a good thing. It cost him a transmission rebuild :eek:

Within an hour of changing the oil in his transmission and adding the additive, the transmission started slipping. The stuff he added to the transmission to reduce friction bonded to the clutches in the transmission causing slippage.

With the transmission in low range, it wouldn't go up the ramps into his truck. We had to push it up the ramps so he could take it to the dealer.
 

RCW

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Within an hour of changing the oil in his transmission and adding the additive, the transmission started slipping. The stuff he added to the transmission to reduce friction bonded to the clutches in the transmission causing slippage.
Holy smokes!

Guess I didn't know anything about these additives - but that's reason enough for me not to use one!
 

Daren Todd

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Holy smokes!

Guess I didn't know anything about these additives - but that's reason enough for me not to use one!
This happened around 18 years ago. So needless to say, im having trouble remebering the details. I keep thinking that it could have been the oil used, and not an additive. If a machine Requires a non detergent oil, and a detergent oil is used, it could cause the same thing.

The big take away I got from his screw up is to double check the requirements before using the latest and greatest product. It may cost you more in the long run :D
 
Last edited:

Kubota Newbie

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Interesting question. I use Shaeffer's Moly Oil (Synthetic Blend) in my Honda ST1100 which of course has wet clutches. I called the company before starting to use it in the bike probably 12 years ago now and they said no problem. FWIW Honda used to sell a moly oil too (maybe still does) and I think it was rated for all their wet clutch applications. I think it makes a difference exactly what the friction modifier is.
 

torch

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Honda used to sell a moly oil too (maybe still does) and I think it was rated for all their wet clutch applications. I think it makes a difference exactly what the friction modifier is.
Moly, like zinc, is not a friction modifier. It's added to provide a last line of defense under extreme loads -- where the film of oil fails and there would be metal-to-metal contact if it wasn't for the moly.

IIRC, a wet clutch depends upon the surface tension of the oil film. The friction modifiers that make wet clutches slip work by reducing the surface tension of the oil.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Does the L2850 have a wet clutch? Its partially synchronised.
The L2850DT has either a singe or dual stage dry clutch, (no wet clutches in it) so nothing that you would add would help with that.
A friction modifier will not help that transmission at all, and in fact can damage the wet brake liners in it! :(

Adjusting the clutch will help if it needs it.
But your most likely issue, if it's grinding into gear, is that it needs the syncro's replaced.

Now if it were a L2850GST then it would have a set of wet clutches in it and then I would 100% tell you do not add anything to the fluid as it can and will damage components.
 

lugbolt

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I hear this stuff all the time. I use brand X oil or additive because it's good. Yet Kubota doesn't recommend any of them. Your owners manual and WSM will tell you what to use in it, and generally speaking it's gonna be Kubota branded stuff....so that tells us that Kubota has tested their equipment with their own fluids and is why they recommend it. 'Nuff said?

Wet clutch stuff. Motorcycles in particular (including ATV's and some side-by-sides) have special requirements in the lubrication department. Thus I don't care if you have a few million dollars worth of stock in some aftermarket company that provides the snake oil that you swear by, after almost 3 decades in the business specializing in ATV's, SxS's, and motorcycles, the one thing I have found is that you will not go wrong with what the manufacturer recommends for lubricating fluids...so if your Kawasaki recommends Kawachem 10w40, you'll likely find that your engine will perform better and work as designed by using what they recommend. I've seen quite a bit (but certainly not everything) and as a generality, out of thousands of clutch jobs and clutch complaints on wet clutch stuff, I'm gonna say about 100% of them were running some aftermarket engine lubricating oil and not the recommended fluid. And that's perfectly fine with me. I like selling my labor time when it comes time to replace the wet clutch in your Teryx4 or Viking or Rhino (especially like the Rhino's) or Fourtraxx. Don't bother me one bit, it's how I make a living and I enjoy doing it. Kawaski vulcan 1500/1600/1700 and some of the older Bayou 220/300/400 models seemed to be particularly notable with relation to clutch issues. Also all the Ninja series but those are usually rider related (60mph wide open throttle clutch dumps, etc). And a slew of off road stuff which is usually a combination of running too long on an oil change, abuse of the clutch, and use of the wrong lube oil (in transmissions and/or engines). Lot of guys like Rotella in their transmissions on the off road bikes and, well, as I said, that's fine by me......easy money.

Super UDT2 in the transmissions and front axles, 15w40 kubota in the engine, and it'll be hard to go wrong with that, which includes most of the RTV series, most tractors, most of the skid-steer's, etc. The WSM spells it out. Read and understand it, and follow it to the "tee".
 

eserv

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lugbolt, you said it so well. The voice of experience....

'nuf said....
I wish there was a "like" button here. If you use the recommended lubes and fuel and service it at least reasonably your Kubota will last almost forever. ( yes they are that good!) I've been a farm equipment mechanic for over 40 years, the last 15 with Kubota and I'm still looking for them to make an inferior product.
 

whitetiger

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I hear this stuff all the time. I use brand X oil or additive because it's good. Yet Kubota doesn't recommend any of them. Your owners manual and WSM will tell you what to use in it, and generally speaking it's gonna be Kubota branded stuff....so that tells us that Kubota has tested their equipment with their own fluids and is why they recommend it. 'Nuff said?

Wet clutch stuff. Motorcycles in particular (including ATV's and some side-by-sides) have special requirements in the lubrication department. Thus I don't care if you have a few million dollars worth of stock in some aftermarket company that provides the snake oil that you swear by, after almost 3 decades in the business specializing in ATV's, SxS's, and motorcycles, the one thing I have found is that you will not go wrong with what the manufacturer recommends for lubricating fluids...so if your Kawasaki recommends Kawachem 10w40, you'll likely find that your engine will perform better and work as designed by using what they recommend. I've seen quite a bit (but certainly not everything) and as a generality, out of thousands of clutch jobs and clutch complaints on wet clutch stuff, I'm gonna say about 100% of them were running some aftermarket engine lubricating oil and not the recommended fluid. And that's perfectly fine with me. I like selling my labor time when it comes time to replace the wet clutch in your Teryx4 or Viking or Rhino (especially like the Rhino's) or Fourtraxx. Don't bother me one bit, it's how I make a living and I enjoy doing it. Kawaski vulcan 1500/1600/1700 and some of the older Bayou 220/300/400 models seemed to be particularly notable with relation to clutch issues. Also all the Ninja series but those are usually rider related (60mph wide open throttle clutch dumps, etc). And a slew of off road stuff which is usually a combination of running too long on an oil change, abuse of the clutch, and use of the wrong lube oil (in transmissions and/or engines). Lot of guys like Rotella in their transmissions on the off road bikes and, well, as I said, that's fine by me......easy money.

Super UDT2 in the transmissions and front axles, 15w40 kubota in the engine, and it'll be hard to go wrong with that, which includes most of the RTV series, most tractors, most of the skid-steer's, etc. The WSM spells it out. Read and understand it, and follow it to the "tee".
Kubota does not recommend S UDT2 in SVLs or SSVs, they like K series are 46 or 32 fluid only.