Farmers are looking for less technology

[eserv]

Good to hear!

My 1950 Fordson E27n is money in the bank! ;-)

Dad and my uncle farmed 250 acres with two fordson major E27n's They were the only tractors we had until I was 14 years old!

 

[lugbolt]

I am staying mostly out of this because I am no longer farmin. Only thing I'm doing now is going to the farm to fix their tractor and even that's fairly rare now.

Most of the larger farms here are Deere. Deere owns the market for ag tractors and large implements for them in this area. Kubota doesn't stand a chance since deere's been around (here) for like ever and then some.

Guy across the road here pulls hay from his 194 acres (house sits on 22, not included, but he mows it with a ZD1211). Still using an old non emissions 4440 Deere to pull a disc mower and then a 3150 to pull the baler (4x5 round). I've asked him about upgrading to newer more fuel efficient and quieter/nicer tractor but he ain't having it. Said he'll sell the farm before he fights with tier 4 stuff. Although most of the fleet is green, his mower and small tractor are both orange; the 1211 and then he's got an L2800 that I see once a year for servicing. Just did the 400 hour service on it last week and had no issues outside the ordinary (HST switch and pump inlet hose crack). Both cheap and easy.

 

[bird dogger]

Reading this thread compelled me to go outside and brush the snow off to evaluate my twin cylinder Kubota forerunner! With a couple of scotch-brite pads and a gallon of Kubota orange it could be ready for the “new” pre tier 4 demand!! You can tell from the wheels that this is no lawn mower! This tractor would do well no matter what your produce or product is, whether it be sugar beets, tobacco, potatoes, peanuts, corn, logging, and even hay!! Guaranteed
to be pre Tier 4. In fact, it’s pre tier most everything!!

 

[BigG]

Get that puppy fired up!!!!

 

[Kurtee]

Nice pissing contest here. Just as a point of interest the same thing is going on in the transportation industry. The older trucks are being resurrected and run. Just cant go to California. I am thinking it is happening in the logging and construction industry also. These environmental rulings have cost people lots of money. Getting the emissions to where we are now took a learning curve. Who paid for the education? The end user, who else. Lots of dollars spent in the name of environmental issues. Where do you think it comes from?

 

[Daren Todd]

Nice pissing contest here. Just as a point of interest the same thing is going on in the transportation industry. The older trucks are being resurrected and run. Just cant go to California. I am thinking it is happening in the logging and construction industry also. These environmental rulings have cost people lots of money. Getting the emissions to where we are now took a learning curve. Who paid for the education? The end user, who else. Lots of dollars spent in the name of environmental issues. Where do you think it comes from?

Quite a few contractors are renting larger equipment instead of buying. If it starts acting up, they call the rental company to take this one back and give them another one.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[JRaf]

I think its possible that some people commenting are missing the larger point (and I think this widely distributed article misses it as well). The problem isn't the size of the tractor, or the farm or ranch or the amount of money the "farmer" makes, and it's not just that older tractors (of any size) are simpler, more repairable, and less reliant on complex systems... it's that John Deere is heavily opposed to "Right to Repair". They're system and engine software is completely locked down, no one other than a dealer can access it, change it, manipulate it any way. (Nevermind that their parts are often proprietary... and have no third party option.)
The modern John Deere company believes when you purchase a tractor, you don't purchase an item or a machine, you buy a right to use their device.
This approach to business didn't work for Apple (they now authorize repair and distribute parts to non-Apple repair shops) and I think most of us hope it won't work for tractor manufacturers.
BTW, I'm not sure Kubota doesn't have a similar POV regarding right to repair. I'm not sure their systems aren't just as locked down, but they're not as big or powerful as JD.

 

[D2Cat]

I like older machines,

 

[skeets]

Kurtee the kid lives in Ca and has, I think 06 Dodge diesel 1 ton. They use to pull horse trailers and hay and well anything that need pulled. She had it in for service and had 5 offers to buy it on her answering machine, before she got home. SO yep seems lots of people are trying to go old school

 

[BAP]

I like older machines,

Looks like the perfect bureaucrat removal tool

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: The modern John Deere company believes when you purchase a tractor, you don't purchase an item or a machine, you buy a right to use their device.

That's been Microsoft's way 'EULA' works for Windows and others...
'fun' thing with 'aps' is you click, they get use of all your data on your device....

 

[Magicman]

Doesn't have to be electronics, parts, etc. Think Kubota hydraulic fluid.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Doesn't have to be electronics, parts, etc. Think Kubota hydraulic fluid.

There are other fluids you can use.

 

[3bfarm]

I think there are several factors to this. The high cost of a new tractor makes a low houred used one a smart alternative. Getting away from computers and def is a plus. I can only comment about what I see here but my local JD dealer caters to 2 types of people. Big farmers that buy new and suburban type that buy small tractors and lawn mowers. Small farms that run older stuff they don't want that business. If they trade for an older tractor they wholesale it, there is very little on their lot except new or close to it. When I bought my Kubota I discussed with the salesman that people like me that they are trying to sell to, not the big ones but smaller operations. I priced a green one and according to adds I saw the Kubota was much cheaper, can't really price green they are not interested in talking to me. Is this the dealer or the company? I don't know.

 

[WilberA]

The newest JD's and CNH's are nice, so are the Fendt's and the Challengers. They do everything but brew hot coffee while you farm. My friend down the road who owns a large seed operation has a number of new (last year's JD's) in various configurrations, from combines to flat back's to FWA utility units and they are all very complex. They incorporate stuff like auto steer and filter monitoring (where the tractor tells you when to change the filters and lubricating oil, I've operated a couple and running one is like playing a video game. The cost is huge. both his combines were well in the excess of 275 thousand (heads included) and the tractors were all over 150 grand each but they all share one trait, they are all Tier 4 final (all take DEF) and all of them have issues that Brian ( the owner / operator) cannot even attempt to fix and any form of deletion causes the units to derate. IOW, you don't fool with them and if they malfunction, the dealer has to come out and deal with the issues via a laptop and wireless Internet connection, in the field and it all takes precious planting or harvesting time.

In Brian's defense, the new equipment is very efficient when it's running right and he farms thousands of acres so he needs the efficiency. Brian does have a couple pre tier 4 JD's he keeps around for emergencies.

One thing about farming in general and that is, unlike playing with a tractor and implements like most posters on here do, when farming for a living, you have a time window to plant, a time window to fertilize and apply pesticide / herbicide and a time window to harvest and it's imperative that the equipment runs flawlessly during those time windows.

I too deal with those time constraints but in a different way. Dry hay production is entirely dependent on the weather. Sure, I can apply acid to the hay to retard spoilage if the RM (moisture content is too high to safely bale without a mold issue but, one it's costly and two, customers don't like the addition of 'greensaver' to the product so I'm always playing 'devils advocate' with Mother Nature so when it's time to fertilize or cut or bale, it has to be done 'now' and equipment failure (tractors or implements) is out of the question so I run older power. Implements, not so much but then my implements, while not very old, aren't dependent on Tier 4 technology either. They are computerized however and even that gives me cause for alarm because I cannot fix them if they break.

People don't really understand all the parameters involved in growing produce, grains or raising meat for consumption. You go to the supermarket and buy the finished product and take for granted it will be there at a competitive price but in reality, getting it there entails a whole raft of things including a lot of luck. What happened this last year with all the rains and soggy fields. Lot of farmers lost their butts through no fault of their own. Why the ag market is depressed right now and why I believe Kubota is barking up the wrong tree with their push to enter the market with large ag focused tractors.

Neither here nor there but that investment could be very detrimental to Kubota.

It’s a tough balance between efficiency and reliability, which is why I’ve been looking into how professional cogniteq.com/mobile-app-development is tackling these diagnostic challenges to hopefully give us more control over our own equipment in the future.

The right to repair is becoming a massive point of contention because as you said being at the mercy of a dealer laptop during a tight harvest window is a recipe for disaster. I often look into the reliability and mechanical layout of various heavy machinery in this katalogu because it helps me understand why certain older systems remain superior for independent operators who cannot afford downtime. It is a strange paradox where the efficiency gains of tier four engines are completely wiped out the moment a single sensor failure causes the entire unit to derate in the middle of a field. While the precision of auto steer and automated monitoring is impressive for large scale operations it seems we are trading mechanical resilience for digital complexity that no owner can actually maintain themselves. If brands like Kubota want to break into the large ag market they will need to address this frustration or they will just be another expensive paperweight waiting for a software update.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

The right to repair is becoming a massive point of contention because as you said being at the mercy of a dealer laptop during a tight harvest window is a recipe for disaster. I often look into the reliability and mechanical layout of various heavy machinery in this katalogu because it helps me understand why certain older systems remain superior for independent operators who cannot afford downtime. It is a strange paradox where the efficiency gains of tier four engines are completely wiped out the moment a single sensor failure causes the entire unit to derate in the middle of a field. While the precision of auto steer and automated monitoring is impressive for large scale operations it seems we are trading mechanical resilience for digital complexity that no owner can actually maintain themselves. If brands like Kubota want to break into the large ag market they will need to address this frustration or they will just be another expensive paperweight waiting for a software update.

Just an FYI sir, this is a 6 year old post……..and I’m fairly certain that guy got the “Ban Hammer” a while back for something.

But welcome, just the same!!!

 

[McMXi]

Just an FYI sir, this is a 6 year old post……..and I’m fairly certain that guy got the “Ban Hammer” a while back for something.

I seem to remember reading on here that he passed away not too long ago. There's no coming back from that.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

I seem to remember reading on here that he passed away not too long ago. There's no coming back from that.

Wow, I didn’t realize the penalty for “back-sassing” the mods was so severe.

I better watch it….