Everything dies when I turn the key

[deathvalleydog]

Strange electrical gremlins are afoot ...

When turn on the ignition of my L2900, everything is fine .. the dash lights come on, the glow-plug light comes on and then turns off a few seconds later, just like it should..

But when turn the key to start it, there is a *click* from down near the starter and then everything goes dead ... no dash lights, nothing. Turn the key on and off, nothing. If I wait for a while (hours, whatever) and try again, the same thing happens.

The battery is new(ish), has voltage, and I've even tried jumping it from my truck with the same effect, so I know the battery is good.

I replaced the starter about five years ago (can't remember if the starter solenoid was built-in or not?) so I'd be surprised if it had failed so soon.

Surprised and bummed (it was the odd-ball extra expensive one that only my particular model uses ... of course )

Any thoughts? Ideas? Anything that could be causing this that ISN'T starter/solenoid related?

 

[Daren Todd]

Check your battery cables really good. Especially where the ground contacts the frame. Load test the battery as well. Quick easy way, is hook a meter to the battery, and have someone hit the key. If voltage drops way down, then you have a bad cell in the battery. You can test the battery cables the same way. Sometimes the cables will pull out from the terminals on the cable ends.

 

[Jimc3165]

Check your battery cables really good. Especially where the ground contacts the frame. Load test the battery as well. Quick easy way, is hook a meter to the battery, and have someone hit the key. If voltage drops way down, then you have a bad cell in the battery. You can test the battery cables the same way. Sometimes the cables will pull out from the terminals on the cable ends.

X2 I was thinking loose cables or bad ground when I read this.

 

[85Hokie]

Ditto what Daren and Jim said.....
the click you hear is the machine (starter) telling you that there is voltage to make it click - but not enough amps to turn the motor in the starter!

check - recheck everything and make it all bright and tight....

now - you could have a starter that needs some attention!


If you throw a jumper straight to the starter - you will find out quickly if the starter is bad, but be very careful doing it !

 

[Dalroo]

Bad ground is my thought also. May just need to clean connections.

 

[Shadow]

Make sure you have crimped on battery terminal ends, those clamp on ones that they sell at the auto parts store that you just strip the wire back and clamp into them then put on the battery are junk.

 

[deathvalleydog]

Thanks everyone ...

The battery connections are clean and tight and solid, but I didn't check the frame end of the ground strap. I'll do that first light ... fingers crossed THAT'S the problem and not the starter / starter solenoid

 

[85Hokie]

Thanks everyone ...

The battery connections are clean and tight and solid, but I didn't check the frame end of the ground strap. I'll do that first light ... fingers crossed THAT'S the problem and not the starter / starter solenoid

I have had that exact problem more than once .....the ground to the chassis !

 

[William1]

Have a voltmeter on the battery when you test. Voltage should be at 12.8 key off, still at 12.8 key on, possible very slight fluctuation and no change when you turn the key. If it drops to zero, it is a bad battery.

 

[Stubbyie]

I'm betting on a bad battery.

I've had new batteries off the shelf be bad when installed.

Load test battery. You can approximate a simple load test by using method presented by another poster this string: check battery voltage from battery positive to (1) chassis and also (2) to starter terminal while cranking. If it pulls below about 11-12-vdc = bad.

Double check battery terminals and the cables at the battery end. Corrosion can be and often is under the insulation and wire itself largely gone.

If jumping from vehicle with known good battery take tractor battery out of circuit as it produces a huge resistance load. If jumping fails and cable terminals are proven good then install a known good battery and try starting (may be bad jumper connection or clamps or cable).

Also mentioned is ground connection to chassis. Must be removed, cleaned of rust and corrosion, and reinstalled tightly and cleanly.

When get it under control install an on-board battery tender like Schumacher. Avoid Harbor Freight as tends to boil battery dry.

Please post back your continuing experiences so we may all learn.

 

[Knott]

All good advice, also it could be your ignition switch failing.

 

[CountryBumkin]

Just to add to what everyone else has said, you should do a "voltage drop" test to see if the cables and connections are good.

You connect a voltmeter (+ lead) to the positive terminal of the battery and take the other voltmeter lead (- Lead) to the positive terminal on the starter. Then you try to crank the engine. If everything is good there will be very low voltage drop (like .5 volts). But if there is a high voltage drop that tells you there is a problem in the circuit/cable/switch that is between the test leads. You need to do the test on both the positive (hot) side and ground side of the circuit your testing.

It's easier to do than to explain. see this http://www.aa1car.com/library/voltage_drop_testing.htm

 

[deathvalleydog]

Load test battery. You can approximate a simple load test by using method presented by another poster this string: check battery voltage from battery positive to (1) chassis and also (2) to starter terminal while cranking. If it pulls below about 11-12-vdc = bad.

Can't load test it this way because so far, I haven't been able to get the starter to even turn over ... I can only get lights on the dash to come on if I've let it sit for a while, and even then as soon as I turn the key into the START position there is a single *click* from down near the starter/starter solenoid and all the lights go out .... and then there is nothing.

So far I've checked the negative terminal frame ground and it seemed maybe iffy, so I cleaned the heck out of it with a wire wheel and even used dielectric grease. I had high hopes this would be it, but alas no ... same problem.

As William1 suggested I've got the multi-meter hooked-up to the battery (sitting at about 12.3 VDC) and ready to check for a voltage drop when I turn the key but so far haven't been able to get the dash lights to even come on again. With the key in ANY position, I've got zero lights and NO change in the 12.3 VDC on the meter. Again, it seems like if I let it sit for long enough (an hour?) the lights will come on when the key is turned and I can repeat the entire process.

But the fact that at the moment my battery voltage is good and doesn't drop or fluctuate with the turning of the key makes me think it's something wonky with a solenoid somewhere? Maybe sticking?

Or maybe ignition switch, as Knott has suggested

Ah .... gotta love electrical gremlins

Stubbyie: I have yet to try jumping it off my truck with the tractor battery removed from the circuit .... waiting for daylight

Stay tuned!

 

[ShaunBlake]

dvdog, I've recently had a starting problem with some symptoms like yours. I was convinced it was a battery problem but I was wrong. However, one thing I did was pick up a hydrometer (real cheap!) and used it with my VOM to check the battery. With a hydrometer, you can discover if your battery that shows 12.9 volts has a cell (or two) with specific gravity less than 1.2 -- that would let you know the weak cells were preventing the current flow you need.

Of course, the best test is a load test -- a type of stress test -- but those devices are pretty costly (and the cheap ones are worth less than you pay for them). Worse, some outfits that perform free load tests for you use test procedures that say, "Replace Battery" even though the battery can be rehabilitated. (I had that experience in this starting problem fiasco.)

I hope you'll get your battery disconnected this morning (it's almost tomorrow here) and your truck hooked up to your cables and fire that puppy up. I'm guessing you have a battery problem or perhaps a switch problem.

(Has anybody started a pool yet?)

 

[Tooljunkie]

Pull both battery cables off tractor. Inspect for green stuff near terminals and rings. When replacing ground, use a new shiny bolt and lockwasher. If it isnt uyour cables, then its your battery. As soon as you hit crank on key, solenoid kicks and starter energizes,and burns that tiny weak connection off. Once cooled off or whatever temperature change causes it to reconnect you can try again.

Battery lug in vise, screwdriver through eye on other end. Now yank. If is bad it will give.

 

[William1]

12.3 is too low. Put the battery on a charger, with the the negative cable off the battery.

Once you have a few hours charging, recheck the voltage. Wait a half hour, recheck the voltage. It should read the same, +/- 0.01 volt, if it dropped a lot, then the battery may be bad. You can also put a light (pun intended) draw on the battery and do a voltage test. Small bulb, like a tail light 1156 or similar, voltage should not drop at all.
Another test to do is put the same 1156 bulb between the currently( I slay myself) disconnected negative battery terminal and the cable. Key off, of course. The bulb should not glow at all. This will confirm there is not a parasitic draw.

If all these tests confirm good, then you have to have the volt meter connected at various points along the major cabling to find the weak spot. When you find the major voltage drop the previous connection (or feeding cable) is the suspect.

A corroded cable ('gone green') will often be very damaged well up inside the insulation and may look fine at any terminal or lug.

 

[deathvalleydog]

"Double check battery terminals and the cables at the battery end. Corrosion can be and often is under the insulation and wire itself largely gone ... "

"A corroded cable ('gone green') will often be very damaged well up inside the insulation and may look fine at any terminal or lug ... "

"As soon as you hit crank on key, solenoid kicks and starter energizes,and burns that tiny weak connection off. Once cooled off or whatever temperature change causes it to reconnect you can try again ... "

Nailed it

So I tried jumping it with the battery removed, and hooked to the battery cables. Nothin'. Then I hooked directly to the starter, bypassing the positive battery cable all together . . . and it fired right up

I ended up just replacing both ends of the positive battery cable, stripped back to fresh copper. Now it starts with no problem at all.

I'm amazed how a battery/lug connection can look so good on the outside and be totally wasted on the inside ... it's been a great learning experience.

Thanks to everyone for all your help and advice!

 

[Tooljunkie]

Glad you found it.
I have seen this countless times. I bought large terminal crimpers and lugs for this reason. This way i can repair burned off cable ends without having to remove cable from vehicle. Not always possoble but it does save time and money when i can.