BX25 won't crank all of sudden

[yzinger]

Hi OTT - hope you can help. I have searched and read many many threads but no luck yet.

I have a 2014 BX25 that is great and gives me zero issue until today. I removed the BH, put on 3pth and then put on bush hog. I then drove it back into garage and setup the hog (height, levelness blah blah). Then I drove it back outside, lowered hog. Turned tractor off and came inside for a sammich.

I went back out to start the bush hogging and turn key and no crank. Here are some details:

Dash comes on, fuel pump does it thing, glow plugs etc....
Keep turning key to start and starter gear engages flywheel but nothing else.
Screams safety switch issue to me but I have checked PTO and tab is pushing the switch in
Checked HST and it seems to be working as designed
This machine has always started without operator on seat so no seat safety switch issue imo

Battery is good and tests at 12.55
I have 12.56 volts to large wire/bung on starter

I have read of moving HST back and forth and has helped others but not me.

I really think it is likely something simply and hope I am dumb dumb and missed it.

All grounds look good too.

What can I do next? Attaching pic of starter in case someone tells me to bypass the safety switches for troubleshooting - if so tell me how to do it please

Thanks

 

[Pawnee]

What kind of sammich?

If it was a safety switch you would not hear the starter gear engaging the flywheel if you are sure that is what you are hearing.
At the same time that that happens, the solenoid also closes high current contacts that switch in the starter motor. Yours isn't spinning when that occurs.

From what I can see in the schematic, you need a new starter motor because the solenoid is inside. Or, the starter isn't turning even though it has power.

I'd wait a bit for others to confirm if the starter is pricey.
I'd try to take it apart and fix it but I'm stubborn that way.

 

[yzinger]

Ham n cheese. I actually watched the starter engage flywheel I could then turn flywheel manually and gear would disengage

 

[Russell King]

It is probably the battery that needs replacing.
Put the voltmeter on the battery posts and then the cables to make sure there is good connection. If so the voltage reading is identical you can assume that the connection is good.

Then try to cr the tractor with the voltage meter att and see what happens with the voltage reading. If it dips down then the battery is probably bad and you need to charge it or replace it if it’s old.

You could always jumpstart the tractor and get some work done but if it dies in the worst possible situation then don’t blame me!

 

[imnukensc]

Original battery? You might need a new one. Pull the battery and take it to any car parts place and have them test it.

 

[dlsmith]

If the starter drive is engaging the flywheel, it's not the battery. BTDT.
It's probably the contacts in the solenoid, as I had the exact same symptoms as you describe. I pulled the starter, disassembled the solenoid, and there was a little copper tit on one of the contacts that wouldn't let the contact plate make proper contact with both contacts. It could also be the starter motor itself, a bad brush or dirty commutator not letting current to the armature.
Did you turn the starter drive gear? With the key off!!!
Did you try the old tried and true method of tapping it with a hammer?
What's the voltage at the starter cable post when you turn the switch to start?
If it isn't dropping way down, like 6-8 volts, it ain't the battery.
If the battery was bad it would try to crank or just chatter, it ain't the battery.

 

[yzinger]

yup agree on battery thoughts.

lol I did try hammer - no change
battery voltage at large cable going into starter does not change when key turned all the way. Agree not a battery issue


The small black and white wire also going into starter is what? It tested at 5.6volts with key turned. Maybe that is ok but thought i should add that detail

 

[Russell King]

There is your problem!

The black with white stripe is the wire that activates the solenoid. It should have 12 volts when you turn the key to start (and have the meter well grounded).

Often the safety switches get corroded and drop voltage. Several in series and not enough voltage is available to close the solenoid.

There are two ways to fix this.
1) Find and clean or replace the safety switches until it cranks.
2) Put a relay in that uses the black and white wire to close the relay and the relay then feeds 12 volts from the battery to the solenoid.

I think that I would use number 2 since it is more reliable over time.

 

[JimDeL]

The small black and white wire also going into starter is what? It tested at 5.6volts with key turned. Maybe that is ok but thought i should add that detail

On my BX2380 that small wire is what actuates the solenoid, which in turn actuates the starter itself. The reason I know is that mine came loose, and I had no starter actuation at all.
I'm pretty sure that wire should carry 12 volts.(I didn't check mine - just plugged it back in.) Unplug it to check (if you haven't already). If it's not reading 12V there might be a loose/corroded connection somewhere in the harness.

 

[JimDeL]

The black with white stripe is the wire that activates the solenoid. It should have 12 volts when you turn the key to start (and have the meter well grounded).
Often the safety switches get corroded and drop voltage. Several in series and not enough voltage is available to close the solenoid.

Safety switches in that circuit would be HST pedal(s), and PTO. Both are underneath where they get dirt, debris, and moisture exposure. My bet would be the PTO switch.

 

[yzinger]

That small black and white wire. I ran a wire from the battery right to the connection the black and white connects to and there was no difference.

Unless I messed up. I thought with the key on the "on" position that jumper would make the starter turn, but tbh I dont remember if i turned key switch all the way to run...did I have to do that?

Summary-for the jumper wire test you still have to turn key all the way right - all the way to run not just "on"

 

[yzinger]

@JimDeL - the plungers are going deep and connecting so it doesnt seem like thats the issue???

 

[Russell King]

There is your problem!

The black with white stripe is the wire that activates the solenoid. It should have 12 volts when you turn the key to start (and have the meter well grounded).

Often the safety switches get corroded and drop voltage. Several in series and not enough voltage is available to close the solenoid.

There are two ways to fix this.
1) Find and clean or replace the safety switches until it cranks.
2) Put a relay in that uses the black and white wire to close the relay and the relay then feeds 12 volts from the battery to the solenoid.

I think that I would use number 2 since it is more reliable over time.

Thinking more on this…
Not sure if it’s the 12 volts or if amps that will be needed to close a relay.

Look that up before you proceed with adding a new relay.

Do you have any computer control devices on the tractor that feed the Black with white wire to the starter? If so that could also be the issue.

 

[whitetiger]

That small black and white wire. I ran a wire from the battery right to the connection the black and white connects to and there was no difference.

Unless I messed up. I thought with the key on the "on" position that jumper would make the starter turn, but tbh I dont remember if i turned key switch all the way to run...did I have to do that?

Summary-for the jumper wire test you still have to turn key all the way right - all the way to run not just "on"

The key does not need to be ON when you put positive battery power to the white-black wire on the starter for the starter to crank the engine.

 

[PaulL]

Can you jump power to the starter terminals directly? My money is on the starter being sad, but I'd say the way to check that is to bypass everything else and feed it 12v from a good cable. Perhaps from a jumper cable from a battery in another vehicle. Rules out everything else. If it cranks, then you have battery/connection/switch issues. If it doesn't, you have a starter problem.

 

[BotaLoda]

Put a voltmeter clipped onto the large terminal of the starter and the other lead to ground on the engine. Key off. Then test again while in the cranking position. If you don't get full 12 volts, backtrack and find the fault. If that looks good, turn the key to crank and see what the voltage goes to. If you get full voltage to it, look at the starter for a fault. If that voltage goes down, way down below 6 or 7v, then look for a bad connection from the battery to the starter. Both cables and terminals. Also of course, it could be the battery. The starter can make a few different noises when the battery is dead. A single click or a lot of clicks are two of them.

 

[Russell King]

That small black and white wire. I ran a wire from the battery right to the connection the black and white connects to and there was no difference.

Unless I messed up. I thought with the key on the "on" position that jumper would make the starter turn, but tbh I dont remember if i turned key switch all the way to run...did I have to do that?

Summary-for the jumper wire test you still have to turn key all the way right - all the way to run not just "on"

As others have pointed out above, if 12 volts is supplied to the solenoid terminal then the starter should crank the engine regardless of what position the key is in. Off is the safest to use for testing, but if you want to use the tractor then place the key in the run position and the starter should crank and start the engine. You could be run over by the tractor if it starts running and moves so it would be best to have someone in the seat with the brakes on.

I think you should have the starter tested off the tractor, and take the battery and have it tested also (if you can).. That will eliminate concerns or pinpoint the problem.

 

[GSD-Keegan]

Maybe just the picture…does anyone else think the long bolt holding the starter together has backed off some.? The end threads appear shiny and the gap in the main frame of the starter looks bigger at the bottom…closest to the bell housing???

 

[langkg]

As others have pointed out above, if 12 volts is supplied to the solenoid terminal then the starter should crank the engine regardless of what position the key is in. Off is the safest to use for testing, but if you want to use the tractor then place the key in the run position and the starter should crank and start the engine. You could be run over by the tractor if it starts running and moves so it would be best to have someone in the seat with the brakes on.

I think you should have the starter tested off the tractor, and take the battery and have it tested also (if you can).. That will eliminate concerns or pinpoint the problem.

I just went through this yesterday with my MX5200. I drove the tractor to a friend's property 5-6 miles from home to do some brush hogging and grading and at one point turned it off for a break. It wouldn't restart. Now I was stranded. Family is out of town, neighbors and friends are on vacation or away for the holiday. Faced with the prospect of a two hour walk home, I started checking all the obvious stuff - safety switches, etc. Finally decided to jump the starter solenoid terminal to hot at the starter and she turned over. I turned the ignition to on and started the tractor and completed my job and drove home. Wheeewwww!!

I did some troubleshooting once I was home, and it turns out the ignition switch is bad. It is easy to drop it out from behind the dash and slide the rubber terminal protectors out of the way to test with a voltmeter. With the key in the crank position, I am not getting 12v to the starter solenoid.

If you look on the Messicks website you will see the ignition switch fits many models and is on their list of "common replacement parts" which tells me it's likely a bad design. The OEM switch is $95. I found a Chinese copy on eBay for less than 1/3 of that. It's a 5-minute job to replace the switch on my tractor and if the Chinese switch fails then I can replace it 3x for the price of the genuine.

Hope this helps. Check your voltage at the ignition switch. The terminal in the center is your hot and one of the outer terminals should have a black/white wire. You should get 12v to the black / white wire that goes down to the starter motor solenoid when you move the key to crank position. If not, your switch is bad.

 

[yzinger]

I just went through this yesterday with my MX5200. I drove the tractor to a friend's property 5-6 miles from home to do some brush hogging and grading and at one point turned it off for a break. It wouldn't restart. Now I was stranded. Family is out of town, neighbors and friends are on vacation or away for the holiday. Faced with the prospect of a two hour walk home, I started checking all the obvious stuff - safety switches, etc. Finally decided to jump the starter solenoid terminal to hot at the starter and she turned over. I turned the ignition to on and started the tractor and completed my job and drove home. Wheeewwww!!

I did some troubleshooting once I was home, and it turns out the ignition switch is bad. It is easy to drop it out from behind the dash and slide the rubber terminal protectors out of the way to test with a voltmeter. With the key in the crank position, I am not getting 12v to the starter solenoid.

If you look on the Messicks website you will see the ignition switch fits many models and is on their list of "common replacement parts" which tells me it's likely a bad design. The OEM switch is $95. I found a Chinese copy on eBay for less than 1/3 of that. It's a 5-minute job to replace the switch on my tractor and if the Chinese switch fails then I can replace it 3x for the price of the genuine.

Hope this helps. Check your voltage at the ignition switch. The terminal in the center is your hot and one of the outer terminals should have a black/white wire. You should get 12v to the black / white wire that goes down to the starter motor solenoid when you move the key to crank position. If not, your switch is bad.

You mean you ran a wire from the large wire connection on the starter to the small wire connection. Black and white in the pic?